B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY

[LTLFTcomposite]

Well I guess I know what my lease exit strategy is now: Take your f-ing car back and don't ever talk to me again.

 

[kubel]

It's a big FU to those who opted out...

FU's don't make much sense from a business perspective. I think it's because they don't want people double-dipping (battery replacement now, settlement down the road). Most people that opted out did so because they were going to sue Nissan separately. The proposed settlement wasn't good enough.

Nissan doesn't feel like paying out $5,000 now for a new battery, then two or three years later, $15,000 when the owners decide to sue about further capacity loss. So they void the warranty, leaving you with a single dip, not a double.

It's a solid move, and I'll bet they can get away with it (even though it's separate from the class action settlement) because the battery warranty was issued post-sale, arguably as a good will gesture.

And anyway, who cares if nobody gets the warranty? Everyone here opted out because the warranty wasn't good enough. Sue, and get something better than the warranty.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

If someone opted out on their current Leaf, what does that mean for a future Leaf purchase or lease?

Can you change your mind and opt back in?

 

[TomT]

But I'll bet it mysteriously disappears from cars that are lease returns or traded in to dealers......

Checked with my dealer this morning. My Leaf has the B0133 note. I opted out of settlement. If I'm reading the paperwork correctly, this is a 'VIN exclusion', which probably means this black mark follows the car, not the owner. So any future owner of this car would also be excluded.

 

[Stoaty]

I think it's because they don't want people double-dipping (battery replacement now, settlement down the road). Most people that opted out did so because they were going to sue Nissan separately. The proposed settlement wasn't good enough.

All they would have to do is have someone who opted out and wanted to take advantage of the battery capacity warranty sign a document that they accept the terms of the settlement and give up their right to sue over battery capacity. Perhaps that is what they will do, otherwise there are going to be some pissed off people. For myself, I am glad I opted out because I think it unlikely I will lose 3 more bars over the next 2 years.

 

[MikeinDenver]

It's a big FU to those who opted out...

FU's don't make much sense from a business perspective. I think it's because they don't want people double-dipping (battery replacement now, settlement down the road). Most people that opted out did so because they were going to sue Nissan separately. The proposed settlement wasn't good enough.

Nissan doesn't feel like paying out $5,000 now for a new battery, then two or three years later, $15,000 when the owners decide to sue about further capacity loss. So they void the warranty, leaving you with a single dip, not a double.

It's a solid move, and I'll bet they can get away with it (even though it's separate from the class action settlement) because the battery warranty was issued post-sale, arguably as a good will gesture.

And anyway, who cares if nobody gets the warranty? Everyone here opted out because the warranty wasn't good enough. Sue, and get something better than the warranty.

I agree.

 

[jstack6]

Thanks, I had not heard of this. By opting out I'd think you were trying to help Nissan and then they use it to no honor the battery warranty. I'm glad we have a lease. Sounds like others better get this checked before they assume they get a new battery. Thanks.

 

[Valdemar]

Yeah, I don't quite understand the anger some have expressed here. It was pretty clear from the settlement letter that the warranty was being revoked by excluding yourself from the class. Just enjoy the fact you can go after Nissan should you desire to do so. I should have opted out but didn't, so I don't even have that option now.

 

[TimLee]

...Most people that opted out did so because they were going to sue Nissan separately. The proposed settlement wasn't good enough.

...

And anyway, who cares if nobody gets the warranty? Everyone here opted out because the warranty wasn't good enough. Sue, and get something better than the warranty.

I and I believe the majority of those who Opted Out had no intent or desire to separately sue Nissan.
The intent was to stop this completely incompetently done class action with no remedy for 90% of the class. A large % of the class has been impacted by capacity degradation that is anywhere between 30% and 200% faster than what Nissan represented when they started marketing the vehicle.To only provide remedy to 10% of the class those with the most severe degradation is just a poorly constructed inadequate remedy.

The chief justice had the legal experience to recognize that no where near enough would Opt Out to stop the class action via that means, and fortunately he had the gravitas to get the class action into meditation via his objection and appearance at the settlement hearing.

A carefully constructed settlement that provides an appropriate prorated compensation to all members of the class would actually be a win win for both the class and Nissan and the best hope is something like that will come out of the mediation. Creating this degree of disgust in 90% of the early adopters in an important and growing area of electric vehicles has to just be horrendous in the long run. As my parents stated many times, your reputation is important and is a result of your words and action.

Separate suing by individual people that Opted Out is pretty impractical for most.

All they would have to do is have someone who opted out and wanted to take advantage of the battery capacity warranty sign a document that they accept the terms of the settlement and give up their right to sue over battery capacity. Perhaps that is what they will do, otherwise there are going to be some pissed off people. For myself, I am glad I opted out because I think it unlikely I will lose 3 more bars over the next 2 years.

Agreed. Nissan should have had the wisdom to inform the people that Opted Out to start with of that alternative rather than getting everyone upset and some considering lawsuits.
May they can find some business wisdom after the fact.

 

[TomT]

+1!

I believe the majority of those who Opted Out had no intent or desire to separately sue Nissan.
The intent was to stop this completely incompetently done class action with no remedy for 90% of the class. A large % of the class has been impacted by capacity degradation that is anywhere between 30% and 200% faster than what Nissan represented when they started marketing the vehicle.To only provide remedy to 10% of the class those with the most severe degradation is just a poorly constructed inadequate remedy.

The chief justice had the legal experience to recognize that no where near enough would Opt Out to stop the class action via that means, and fortunately he had the gravitas to get the class action into meditation via his objection and appearance at the settlement hearing.

A carefully constructed settlement that provides an appropriate prorated compensation to all members of the class would actually be a win win for both the class and Nissan and the best hope is something like that will come out of the mediation. Creating this degree of disgust in 90% of the early adopters in an important and growing area of electric vehicles has to just be horrendous in the long run. As my parents stated many times, your reputation is important and is a result of your words and action.

Separate suing by individual people that Opted Out is pretty impractical for most.

 

[GRA]

Without knowing if they will or will not honor the warranty even if you opted out it seems kind of premature. This could all be a non issue. :?

Indeed. It's been suggested to me that it could be Nissan's legal department insisting they ding our cars with the B0133 notation, and not Nissan as a customer service oriented entity. Of course, my response to that was, "Well why doesn't Nissan grow a backbone and tell it's lawyers where to get off?"

That would involve a totally different corporate culture, now wouldn't it? I've been saving this to use at the appropriate time, as I think it describes Nissan's attitude perfectly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbODuD1inlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

All 2011-12 LEAF owners received the capacity warranty when Nissan announced:

BBrockman

Post subject: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:54 pm...

Hi everyone:

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Brian Brockman, and I am a senior manager in corporate communications at Nissan, based at our Americas HQ in Franklin, Tenn. While LEAF is fairly new to my list of official job responsibilities, I've been engaged in the program for some time, serving as our Midwest communications manager based in Michigan since 2007.

So I don't stretch this post too long, I'll get to the business of the day. Back in December, Jeff posted a message from Andy Palmer (viewtopic.php?p=253595) outlining the expanded warranty protection against capacity loss in the LEAF's lithium-ion battery. In that message, they said that the warranty would go into effect this Spring for 2011 and 2012 LEAF owners. Today, I want to give you an update on that roll-out.

If you're a 2011 or 2012 LEAF owner, you'll receive a letter in the mail in the coming week or so confirming the expanded warranty coverage for your LEAF, as well as details on a software update available through your Nissan LEAF dealer for your battery capacity meter and on-board charger. I've pasted the text of that letter below for you to check out. As you are some of our most engaged owners, we wanted to give you a heads-up on this development.

(Note: For 2013 LEAF owners, this coverage was part of your battery warranty at purchase, and is outlined in your warranty information booklet.)

Thank you for your time, and for your continued feedback. It's exciting to see so many enthusiastic and engaged LEAF owners. I look forward to more conversations with you in the future.

Brian

--


Dear Nissan LEAF Owner:

Nissan values the feedback that we receive from our owners, and we try to use your comments to improve our products. With the goal to provide the highest level of customer satisfaction, Nissan is now offering two ongoing improvements for your Nissan LEAF.

First, Nissan is providing a new software enhancement for model year 2011-2012 LEAF vehicles, updating them with the software currently used in production for 2013 model year LEAF vehicles. The software enhancement is aimed at improving the accuracy of the battery capacity level gauge and providing greater compatibility with an expanded range of EV charging equipment.

Second, Nissan is now implementing expanded coverage under its New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, to protect against capacity loss in your LEAF’s lithium-ion battery, as previously announced by Nissan in December 2012.

SOFTWARE ENHANCEMENT

The 2013 LEAF features many improvements, including updated software that improves the performance of the battery capacity level gauge (outlined below) to more accurately reflect actual battery capacity. This update does not change the amount of capacity represented by the each of the bars in the meter.

In addition, the vehicle’s on-board charger software has been enhanced to improve compatibility with a broader range of EV charging equipment. By updating the software for 2011 and 2012 vehicles, Nissan is providing customers with the benefits of these ongoing improvements enjoyed by owners of the 2013 LEAF.

WHAT NISSAN WILL DO

To ensure your continued satisfaction and confidence in your car, your EV Certified Nissan dealer will update the software as described above at no cost to you for parts and labor.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO

Contact your EV Certified Nissan dealer at your earliest convenience in order to arrange your appointment. This service is free of charge and the work should take less than 2 hours to complete. To ensure the greatest convenience to you, it is important that you have an appointment before bringing your vehicle to the dealer for this service. Please bring this notice with you to your service appointment. Detailed instructions have been sent to your EV Certified Nissan dealer.

EXPANDED WARRANTY COVERAGE

In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original battery pack will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return the battery to an “as new” condition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.

Please apply the label at the bottom of this letter to your Warranty Information Booklet. If your vehicle’s battery capacity level is currently at or above nine (9) bars, no further action is required.

If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty.

Please note that replacement lithium-ion batteries may require special ordering which may delay the actual repair by several weeks. Your patience in these circumstances is appreciated.

If you have any questions about this announcement, you may contact the Nissan LEAF Call Center at 877-N0-GAS-EV (877-664-2738), or by writing us at Nissan North America, Inc., P.O. Box 685003, Franklin, TN 37068-5003.

Thank you for providing us an opportunity to ensure your satisfaction. We hope you continue to enjoy smooth, zero emissions driving in your Nissan LEAF!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No mention above of any present or future conditions or actions required by LEAF owners to continue to receive the capacity warranty, beyond those already required to maintain the pre-existing battery warranty, and no mention of the class action settlement at all.

So, IMO, getting "B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY" due to opting out of the settlement is of questionable legality and more importantly, such a PR FUBAR, it will probably (eventually) be announced to have been just another Nissan internal miscommunication.

 

[MikeinDenver]

All 2011-12 LEAF owners received the capacity warranty when Nissan announced:

BBrockman

Post subject: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:54 pm...

Hi everyone:

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Brian Brockman, and I am a senior manager in corporate communications at Nissan, based at our Americas HQ in Franklin, Tenn. While LEAF is fairly new to my list of official job responsibilities, I've been engaged in the program for some time, serving as our Midwest communications manager based in Michigan since 2007.

So I don't stretch this post too long, I'll get to the business of the day. Back in December, Jeff posted a message from Andy Palmer (viewtopic.php?p=253595) outlining the expanded warranty protection against capacity loss in the LEAF's lithium-ion battery. In that message, they said that the warranty would go into effect this Spring for 2011 and 2012 LEAF owners. Today, I want to give you an update on that roll-out.

If you're a 2011 or 2012 LEAF owner, you'll receive a letter in the mail in the coming week or so confirming the expanded warranty coverage for your LEAF, as well as details on a software update available through your Nissan LEAF dealer for your battery capacity meter and on-board charger. I've pasted the text of that letter below for you to check out. As you are some of our most engaged owners, we wanted to give you a heads-up on this development.

(Note: For 2013 LEAF owners, this coverage was part of your battery warranty at purchase, and is outlined in your warranty information booklet.)

Thank you for your time, and for your continued feedback. It's exciting to see so many enthusiastic and engaged LEAF owners. I look forward to more conversations with you in the future.

Brian

--


Dear Nissan LEAF Owner:

Nissan values the feedback that we receive from our owners, and we try to use your comments to improve our products. With the goal to provide the highest level of customer satisfaction, Nissan is now offering two ongoing improvements for your Nissan LEAF.

First, Nissan is providing a new software enhancement for model year 2011-2012 LEAF vehicles, updating them with the software currently used in production for 2013 model year LEAF vehicles. The software enhancement is aimed at improving the accuracy of the battery capacity level gauge and providing greater compatibility with an expanded range of EV charging equipment.

Second, Nissan is now implementing expanded coverage under its New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, to protect against capacity loss in your LEAF’s lithium-ion battery, as previously announced by Nissan in December 2012.

SOFTWARE ENHANCEMENT

The 2013 LEAF features many improvements, including updated software that improves the performance of the battery capacity level gauge (outlined below) to more accurately reflect actual battery capacity. This update does not change the amount of capacity represented by the each of the bars in the meter.

In addition, the vehicle’s on-board charger software has been enhanced to improve compatibility with a broader range of EV charging equipment. By updating the software for 2011 and 2012 vehicles, Nissan is providing customers with the benefits of these ongoing improvements enjoyed by owners of the 2013 LEAF.

WHAT NISSAN WILL DO

To ensure your continued satisfaction and confidence in your car, your EV Certified Nissan dealer will update the software as described above at no cost to you for parts and labor.

WHAT YOU SHOULD DO

Contact your EV Certified Nissan dealer at your earliest convenience in order to arrange your appointment. This service is free of charge and the work should take less than 2 hours to complete. To ensure the greatest convenience to you, it is important that you have an appointment before bringing your vehicle to the dealer for this service. Please bring this notice with you to your service appointment. Detailed instructions have been sent to your EV Certified Nissan dealer.

EXPANDED WARRANTY COVERAGE

In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original battery pack will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return the battery to an “as new” condition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.

Please apply the label at the bottom of this letter to your Warranty Information Booklet. If your vehicle’s battery capacity level is currently at or above nine (9) bars, no further action is required.

If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty.

Please note that replacement lithium-ion batteries may require special ordering which may delay the actual repair by several weeks. Your patience in these circumstances is appreciated.

If you have any questions about this announcement, you may contact the Nissan LEAF Call Center at 877-N0-GAS-EV (877-664-2738), or by writing us at Nissan North America, Inc., P.O. Box 685003, Franklin, TN 37068-5003.

Thank you for providing us an opportunity to ensure your satisfaction. We hope you continue to enjoy smooth, zero emissions driving in your Nissan LEAF!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No mention above of any present or future conditions or actions required by LEAF owners to continue to receive the capacity warranty, beyond those already required to maintain the pre-existing battery warranty, and no mention of the class action settlement at all.

So, IMO, getting "B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY" due to opting out of the settlement is of questionable legality and more importantly, such a PR FUBAR, it will probably (eventually) be announced to have been just another Nissan internal miscommunication.

That is my thinking as well.

 

[keydiver]

Yeah, I don't quite understand the anger some have expressed here. It was pretty clear from the settlement letter that the warranty was being revoked by excluding yourself from the class. Just enjoy the fact you can go after Nissan should you desire to do so. I should have opted out but didn't, so I don't even have that option now.

Could you please point out the exact language you are mentioning here? I don't remember anything in the letter that indicated I lose my warranty. In fact, the main reason I opted out was because of the new Nissan battery capacity warranty, I was happy with it. I trusted that under that new program I was going to be taken care of, so I had no desire to be part of a suit against them. I saw the lawsuit as something to REPLACE the warranty, people who just wanted a cash settlement. I don't want cash, especially when we don't know the cost of a new battery, I want a new battery, as promised. :?

 

[Valdemar]

Could you please point out the exact language you are mentioning here? I don't remember anything in the letter that indicated I lose my warranty.

 

[QueenBee]

That benefit must clearly be some other capacity warranty because I received a capacity warranty many months before this settlement letter. So I certainly agree that I am not eligible for the capacity warranty which was given in the class action lawsuit but the one I was given for being an owner of a 2011 LEAF should still be valid as it was not contingent on any lawsuit or settlement and provided no method to opt out.

If it's not clear to you that my car has this warranty I would be happy to scan the sticker I was provided to place in my manual.

 

[Valdemar]

That benefit must clearly be some other capacity warranty because I received a capacity warranty many months before this settlement letter.

Is this for real? How many capacity warranties do you think Nissan has issued? I didn't opt out, does it mean I have 2 warranties now?

 

[kubel]

My prediction:

1) B0133 will stick with the car *forever*.
2) B0133 owners will not be able to sue for Nissan revoking the battery capacity warranty, because it was never promised at the time of sale. You might be able to prove the warranty was separate from the settlement, but that does nothing to prove you are entitled to the warranty, since it came after purchase- best case scenario it was a gesture of good will by Nissan, worst case scenario, it was an outcome of a settlement which you opted out of.
3) B0133 owners will sue for battery degradation, as they were entitled to do by opting out.
4) Nissan will offer to settle by buying back the cars.
5) B0133 cars will be rounded up and crushed.
6) This is going to piss off a lot of early adopters, and it's probably going to cause Nissan PR some serious blow back when it starts hitting the news. But a power greater than the PR department is the legal department, and they are the ones calling the shots here, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Valdemar]

7) Losers who bought and didn't opt out will drive the cars until they no longer can and then donate them to charity

 

[QueenBee]

That benefit must clearly be some other capacity warranty because I received a capacity warranty many months before this settlement letter.

Is this for real? How many capacity warranties do you think Nissan has issued? I didn't opt out, does it mean I have 2 warranties now?

Well I am not sure since I only got the non settlement warranty. Did you ever get a letter saying "here is your settlement warranty" after the settlement was agreed to? Not sure how to tell the difference between the two but maybe the sticker they mail for your manual is a different color?