B0133 NO BATT CAPACITY WARRANTY

[keydiver]

But being in south Florida you will definitely need the capacity warranty unless you drive very few miles.

Yes, I'm already down to 80% at 26,000 miles, needing to charge to 100% a lot more often now. 100% of my now 80% capacity is basically giving me the 80% charge of 100% when the battery was new.
One thought entered my mind: what if this whole B0133 revoked warranty is part of a ploy on Nissan's part to get the whole settlement thrown out? If Kozinski and other objectors bring up the fact that Nissan is now revoking warranties because of the settlement, might that get the judge to throw out the whole case, to cancel the settlement, thus reinstating the new warranty? All to save $1.9 million to Capstone? :?

 

[downeykp]

I believe that the total number who opted out was in the range of 50-60. A significant percentage of those were owners like Stoaty and me who will not lose four bars within 5 years/ 60,000 miles, so cost is not a factor for Nissan. My car is 37 months old, with 20,000 miles and still has all its capacity bars. I opted out because I was offended by the sham nature of the settlement.

58 MNL members voted in the poll, that they opted out of the suit. I find it very improbable, that MNL represents 100% of all the people, that opted out of the suit.

But how many "normal" people really spend any time or even know about MNL to even know that there is a problem?
It is not like this is national headline grabbing news. Nissan doesn't give a $hit one way or the other. They just had the best month they ever had selling the Leaf with the same $hitty battery that all of us early adopters have.
I opted out also, I have all capacity bars and 20k miles. This will definitely not affect me.

 

[oakwcj]

I believe that the total number who opted out was in the range of 50-60. A significant percentage of those were owners like Stoaty and me who will not lose four bars within 5 years/ 60,000 miles, so cost is not a factor for Nissan. My car is 37 months old, with 20,000 miles and still has all its capacity bars. I opted out because I was offended by the sham nature of the settlement.

58 MNL members voted in the poll, that they opted out of the suit. I find it very improbable, that MNL represents 100% of all the people, that opted out of the suit.

You're probably right about that. I can't find the exact number now, or where I saw it, but I do remember it was in double digits. And you can't be sure that everyone who claimed to have opted out in the poll actually did.

 

[pchilds]

I believe that the total number who opted out was in the range of 50-60. A significant percentage of those were owners like Stoaty and me who will not lose four bars within 5 years/ 60,000 miles, so cost is not a factor for Nissan. My car is 37 months old, with 20,000 miles and still has all its capacity bars. I opted out because I was offended by the sham nature of the settlement.

62 MNL members voted in the poll, that they opted out of the suit. I find it very improbable, that MNL represents 100% of all the people, that opted out of the suit.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14378
Edited to add link to poll and correct opted out numbers.

 

[TimLee]

It seems like there's only two possible explanations for this...

Either Nissan is so desperate to reduce their ever-increasing costs for swapping out batteries that they are trying to find any excuse they can to deny the warranty (you didn't get your battery checks done on time, or you opted out of the law suit).

Or, this is a perfect example of Hanlon's razor.

Either case, it shows an incredible level of incompetence.

Or the Arthur C. Clarke famous comment about technology and magic, often been called Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice".

 

[GRA]

It seems like there's only two possible explanations for this...

Either Nissan is so desperate to reduce their ever-increasing costs for swapping out batteries that they are trying to find any excuse they can to deny the warranty (you didn't get your battery checks done on time, or you opted out of the law suit).

Or, this is a perfect example of Hanlon's razor.

Either case, it shows an incredible level of incompetence.

Or the Arthur C. Clarke famous comment about technology and magic, often been called Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice".

I think you meant a parody of Clarke's Third Law.

 

[JeremyW]

For shits and giggles I called the NO GAS EV line today to see since I have no capacity warranty if I could buy a replacement battery at my own cost. Not surprisingly they said they do not sell them.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Nissan has burned up so much good will amongst it's staunchest supporters, it's really a shame! I got fed up and found a way to trade up my 2012 purchased Leaf for a 2012 leased Leaf because I wanted out in the long run, just can't trust Nissan on the most important aspect of an EV (it's battery). The Kia Soul EV is looking very nice, our Leaf lease is up next February, so our eyes are wondering. Nissan would have to come out with a 150 mile temperature managed, heat tolerant battery with a real range warranty at this point to gain our trust back. Chances are we will lease a Kia Soul for a couple of years waiting for the Tesla E to come out. In so many ways, Tesla is turning out to be the global leader. who knows, maybe Nissan will opt to use Tesla's batteries and charging standard going forward now that the patents are open and they are in negotiations, it would save them a lot of headaches.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

This is not the big deal some are making it, If you opt out of the capacity warranty, you made the decision, and the notation on the car data is a proper and accurate recording of your decision. You can't cry about having rejected the settlement and then not being included in it. By opting out you preserved a different set of rights and options.

 

[uwskier20]

If you opt out of the capacity warranty, you made the decision, and the notation on the car data is a proper and accurate recording of your decision

Somebody apparently didn't read the whole thread. :shock:

We didn't opt out of the expanded warranty; we opted out of the settlement class. There's a substantial distinction to be made there.

 

[QueenBee]

This is not the big deal some are making it, If you opt out of the capacity warranty, you made the decision, and the notation on the car data is a proper and accurate recording of your decision. You can't cry about having rejected the settlement and then not being included in it. By opting out you preserved a different set of rights and options.

Steve, it's likely not a big deal but not for the reasons you stated. Did you read the previously linked to objection document? It thoroughly explains why your line of thinking is incorrect. I presume your response is based out of ignorance and not that you actually disagree with the honorable judges legal points in his objection.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Nissan has burned up so much good will amongst it's staunchest supporters, it's really a shame! I got fed up and found a way to trade up my 2012 purchased Leaf for a 2012 leased Leaf because I wanted out in the long run, just can't trust Nissan on the most important aspect of an EV (it's battery). The Kia Soul EV is looking very nice, our Leaf lease is up next February, so our eyes are wondering. Nissan would have to come out with a 150 mile temperature managed, heat tolerant battery with a real range warranty at this point to gain our trust back. Chances are we will lease a Kia Soul for a couple of years waiting for the Tesla E to come out. In so many ways, Tesla is turning out to be the global leader. who knows, maybe Nissan will opt to use Tesla's batteries and charging standard going forward now that the patents are open and they are in negotiations, it would save them a lot of headaches.

Has Kia announced the replacement price for a battery pack for the soul?
I have this sinking feeling the dirty little secret of evs is the batteries cost a small fortune, and without tax credits or CARB credits, manufacturers and/or owners are looking at an unbearble number.

 

[ydnas7]

This is not the big deal some are making it, If you opt out of the capacity warranty, you made the decision, and the notation on the car data is a proper and accurate recording of your decision. You can't cry about having rejected the settlement and then not being included in it. By opting out you preserved a different set of rights and options.

Steve, it's likely not a big deal but not for the reasons you stated. Did you read the previously linked to objection document? It thoroughly explains why your line of thinking is incorrect. I presume your response is based out of ignorance and not that you actually disagree with the honorable judges legal points in his objection.

Kozinski's correctly describes the capacity warranty as 'hockum' but that does not negate the fact that the capacity warranty is either solely at Nissan's discretion or due to the settlement. I am not a lawyer, but even I understand that promises are only enforceable with Offer * Acceptance * Consideration * Intent. If any of O.A.C.I are zero, then a valid contract does not exist. both the Consideration (exchange of money) and the Intent (settlement or not) are in question.

No one exchanged money for the retrospective capacity warranty, so thats sufficient to allow Nissan to withdraw it selectively if desired.
Nissan may also argue that its intent was due to settlement negotiations, and that for global consistency it then used the settlement as guidance for global policy.

Sure, Nissan selectively withdrawing the warranty opens it up for further lawsuit, but from a lawyer's perspective, that is the sole intent of opting out anyway.

Did anyone really think that Nissan would not link the warranty to the settlement?

Somehow I can't shake the feeling that Capstone's $2million fee gets funded from Nissan's fast charger deployment budget.

 

[keydiver]

Nice write up about this: http://blogs.reuters.com/alison-frankel/2013/11/20/lawyers-nightmare-when-9th-circuit-chief-judge-kozinski-is-class-objector/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found these snips from that article for be quite interesting. Too bad the article was published AFTER I opted out:

At least, they said, she should force Nissan officials to state under oath whether the class action prompted the company to offer a new warranty on the LEAF batteries and to promise not to withdraw warranty coverage for opt-outs.

Final approval will ensure that the new warranty, negotiated by class counsel, cannot be terminated, withdrawn, modified or rescinded by Nissan.

It seems to me that Nissan went to great pains NOT to tie the new warranty to the class action suit, pretending it was just a goodwill gesture, and now they slap me with a B0133, insisting that the warranty was the settlement.

This is not the big deal some are making it

Why is it always someone in the PNW telling me not to worry about my battery? :roll: If you had read the thread, you would see that many of us were happy with Nissan's new battery capacity warranty, never suspected that it was tied to the settlement, and that opting out of the settlement would cause Nissan to punitively rescind our warranty. A lot of bad communication on both Nissan and Capstone's behalf, IMHO.
FWIW, Judge Kozinski is aware of this thread.

 

[mwalsh]

In my opinion it's time to toss the whole settlement and litigate this thing over again. It's a clusterfuck of the first order.

 

[Weatherman]

In my opinion it's time to toss the whole settlement and litigate this thing over again. It's a clusterfuck of the first order.

Of course, that would give Nissan a perfect excuse to rescind the capacity warranty for everyone.

 

[JeremyW]

I think the thing that angers me the most is that if you have no warranty (by opting out or by mileage), there's no way for you to get a new pack. Your only option is the junkyard or the car crusher. They won't sell a pack, they won't rent a pack. It's a wear part but once it's worn out the car is done. :shock:

 

[mwalsh]

I am not a lawyer, but even I understand that promises are only enforceable with Offer * Acceptance * Consideration * Intent. If any of O.A.C.I are zero, then a valid contract does not exist. both the Consideration (exchange of money) and the Intent (settlement or not) are in question.

No one exchanged money for the retrospective capacity warranty, so thats sufficient to allow Nissan to withdraw it selectively if desired.


Nissan may also argue that its intent was due to settlement negotiations, and that for global consistency it then used the settlement as guidance for global policy.

Nissan stated intent in the letter to us - create customer satisfaction.

Consideration doesn't need to be financial, it can be a promise of action. We are obligated to get the P3227 update before our cars can receive capacity warranty work. This my friends is the consideration. We do have a contract here.

 

[mikeEmike]

I think the thing that angers me the most is that if you have no warranty (by opting out or by mileage), there's no way for you to get a new pack. Your only option is the junkyard or the car crusher. They won't sell a pack, they won't rent a pack. It's a wear part but once it's worn out the car is done. :shock:

There's going to be some type of replacement program eventually, sooner rather than later:

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-announces-battery-replacement-program-for-leaf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even if Nissan doesn't roll this out, some entrepreneur out there will cash in on a LEAF battery remanufacturing business.

 

[TomT]

Much more likely later, much later... That story is already over a year old with nothing to show for it...
And it will be exceptionally difficult for an entrepreneur to remanufacture Leaf batteries due to the cost and complexity required. There is a very substantial investment necessary...

There's going to be some type of replacement program eventually, sooner rather than later.
Even if Nissan doesn't roll this out, some entrepreneur out there will cash in on a LEAF battery remanufacturing business.