Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

[colby]

Colby: Do you have any specifics about the actual threshold temperature values detected by the Fit EV's inlet temperature sensor that you mention in your last post?

Did the Ecotality spokesperson deny that any of their plug connectors of any of their installed EVSE's have been replaced due to a defect that was causing excessive temperatures during charging?

The threshold temperature was right around 75 degrees C. The J1772 spec says that the connection should not exceed 50C above ambient, which is about 75C.

I didn't speak directly with the Ecotality spokesperson. They contacted Plugincars.com about another article and the editor mentioned my issues and Ecotality gave that response. I don't think they are purposely giving out false information. More likely, the rep was misinformed or there is a separate issue going on with other Fit EVs (but I haven't heard of one).

Has Ecotality replaced any of their connectors that you know of? (obviously besides Tony's)

Colby

 

[MikeD]

Colby: As a recent EE graduate, what would you recommend if asked by an EV auto company how they should design their (say 30a) J1772 inlet to adequately cope with overheating issues? Is the Honda approach that you most recently tested good enough or would you modify it?

 

[jspearman]

I've been trying to get an answer from Blink on the problem with the Blink and RAV4, but no success so far. The first guy I spoke with looked up the RAV4 on Wikipedia and said it would work. Not much help. Don't really want to spend another boatload of money on a second charging station, but would rather not risk damaging the car, or worse.

 

[surfingslovak]

I've been trying to get an answer from Blink on the problem with the Blink and RAV4, but no success so far. The first guy I spoke with looked up the RAV4 on Wikipedia and said it would work. Not much help. Don't really want to spend another boatload of money on a second charging station, but would rather not risk damaging the car, or worse.

Would you consider doing the mod Phil suggested upthread?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I've been trying to get an answer from Blink on the problem with the Blink and RAV4, but no success so far. The first guy I spoke with looked up the RAV4 on Wikipedia and said it would work. Not much help. Don't really want to spend another boatload of money on a second charging station, but would rather not risk damaging the car, or worse.

For the 30 amp Blink, remove the REMA connector and install a Yazaki or other 30amp or over J1772 plug:

http://www.smdinc.com/j1772.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772CableSources" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://charge.yazaki-group.com/english/product/normal_outlet_new.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Good point, and less invasive too. The ITT Cannon cable set from Leviton could be less costly than Yazaki.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Good point, and less invasive too. The ITT Cannon cable set from Leviton could be less costly than Yazaki.

Wow, what a good price for 25 feet:

30 Amp J1772 Level 2 Electric Vehicle Charge Connector with 25 Ft. Cord, A3435-PEV

Price:
$133.98

 

[jspearman]

I've been indecisive about switching to a Clipper Creek or sticking with slower--and perhaps more dangerous--charging with the Blink I currently have through the EV Project. I may just buy an IR thermometer and keep close tabs. Every charging station in Phoenix is a Blink, so if this is a widespread problem then I'll need to keep one handy anyway.

I don't want to alter the Blink handle, just in case something went wrong down the line. I would rather buy a better, more powerful unit than risk trouble if I find mine is overheating the inlet. I'm a crappy, unsuccessful tinkerer. Ask my wife.

I did ask Blink to replace the handle on my unit, but I'm guessing they say no.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't want to alter the Blink handle, just in case something went wrong down the line. I would rather buy a better, more powerful unit than risk trouble if I find mine is overheating the inlet. I'm a crappy, unsuccessful tinkerer. Ask my wife. .

There are plenty of EVers in the valley of the sun who can help, or call an electrician.

Not fixing a known problem while waiting for that known problem down the road certainly doesn't make sense to me.

Here's a heads up; if the Blink causes damage to your Rav4, and the car is outside the warranty, they have to drop the battery pack to replace it.

Edit: and you would have to ship back to a certified California Rav4 EV dealer just to make this repair to your car. Lots of money and time without your car, and then you would have to replace the Blink handle.

 

[MikeD]

Let's have some more analysis of the alleged overheating problem, please. Although I haven't tried to disassemble the plug of my home Blink or the inlet of my Leaf, I gather that there are 3 critical sub-circuits in each of the two J1772 plug/inlet power lines that are in close proximity and in series to one another: the crimp on the inlet terminal, the crimp on the EVSE's plug terminal, and the pin/sleeve connector. Let's refer to the resistance at each point as RI, RP, and RC respectively and let RT = RI + RP + RC. The heat generated in this small length of the circuit is proportional to I*I*RT, if I'm not mistaken. So the resistance of each of the three sub-circuits is important to consider. If RJ is the threshold resistance at which the J1772 maximum standard temperature is reached, then it seems we always want RI + RP + RC < RJ.

So it strikes me that a crimp would be expected to use more compression force between the components connected than one would expect to see in the pin/sleeve connector itself, although the area of contact is important as well. So how "good" does a crimp have to be in order not to degrade too much over its expected lifetime? Also if a crimp is found to be too loose, can it not be tightened by the appropriate tool?

 

[KJD]

Let's have some more analysis of the alleged overheating problem, please.

Honda has looked into this issue and confirmed there is a problem.

After about 20 minutes of charging, the car stops charging. Honda sent engineers to look, and determined that the charge connectors were overheating and the Fit EV was stopping the charge before damage occurred. Over just a few months, more of the Blinks started having this issue.
Now, six out of seven Blinks overheat in just 20 minutes.

http://www.plugincars.com/honda-fit-ev-overheats-blink-charger-126246.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Nubo]

So how "good" does a crimp have to be in order not to degrade too much over its expected lifetime? Also if a crimp is found to be too loose, can it not be tightened by the appropriate tool?

My understanding is that a good crimp connection is supposed to be "gas free". A substandard crimp allows oxidation of the conductors, increasing resistance and heat, allowing movement. The heat and movement further accelerates the oxidation. If the crimp is found to be too loose, the conductors (and crimp metal) are probably already tarnished so probably too late to "just tighten the crimp". You'd probably have to start over with a new crimp to bright copper.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Let's have some more analysis of the alleged overheating problem, please. Although I haven't tried to disassemble the plug of my home Blink or....

The classic bullshit response. You didn't have your car damaged, or any research into the issue, and it's all an allegation.

Why don't you allegedly figure it out yourself, while we allegedly go on about our lives? If I recall correctly, you are also one of the LEAF battery degradation deniers, so I honestly don't see what could possibly be "proved" to you, or why anybody would allegedly bother.

 

[MikeD]

TonyWilliams: I post here on MNL because I'm trying to have rational and relatively dispassionate discussions about issues important to EV owners. Period. I admit to trying to advance the acceptance of EVs generally to the public (in my own admittedly small way); I always try to be candid and open about my experiences with my Leaf and those of others. But facts matter to me, and allegations based on a few personal experiences do not necessarily equate to facts.

By "alleged overheating problem" I thought it would be understood to mean the notion that there was a widespread defect with Blink EVSEs together with EVs perhaps not equipped to adequately handle an overheated J1772 connection -- not the melting incident that you experienced.

By the way, did Ecotality give you any feedback on what they found with the EVSE that you returned to them? If not, I don't recall you saying you examined that EVSE's crimps. If not, how can you be certain that a bad crimp in it was in fact what caused the overheating, instead of some other cause -- or possibly a combination of causes (which my previous post was trying to explore)? I welcome more investigation!

I'm trying to add light to this whole issue, without also adding heat.

I hope that you will not think my skepticism on issues you post about equates to a personal attack on you.

 

[TonyWilliams]

TonyWilliams: I post here on MNL because I'm trying to have rational and relatively dispassionate discussions about issues important to EV owners. Period. I admit to trying to advance the acceptance of EVs generally to the public (in my own admittedly small way);

We have a number of folks who post here, like you, who think they are advancing EVs by clouding factual issues. They came out of the woodwork with battery degradation, to "save" the EV movement with counter claims and accusations, much like we see with global warming deniers.

If you want further info on the issue, I recommend getting the "official" word from the parties involved. That would be:

REMA
Ecotality
Toyota
Tesla
Yazaki

 

[evnow]

I think once the 2013 Leafs are out, this would be a big issue if lots of Blinks have this problem.

Now that my Blink is out of warranty, I'd change out the handle, if I'm going to buy the MY2013 car - but the question really is what do we do with Blink chargers in the wild.

Tony,

Have you tried charging Rav4 with with Blinks in the wild ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony,

Have you tried charging Rav4 with with Blinks in the wild ?

I have, a few times. I now have the 70C thermal protection (this is too cheap and simple not to do, thanks Phil!!) and I carry a cheap $20 Sears IR temperature measuring tool.

But, you don't really need the IR temp tool to feel the handle get hot, but you do want to catch it BEFORE it causes damage. The guys with the Honda Fit seem to have gotten good support from Honda to mitigate this issue, and while Toyota/Tesla have not gone to Honda's lengths, I'm happy with their support.

Lets be clear; any poorly constructed pins in any brand connector leaves the opportunity for damage or fire. It just appears that the Blink/REMA connectors have a much higher likelihood of problems than ANY OTHER connectors (based on my issues, Phil's measurements, Honda Fit issues, etc).

It appeared to me that the 2013 LEAF at Phoenix on Jan 8, 2013 may have thermal protection already. Lets see if the production models do, too.

 

[MikeD]

TonyWilliams: I don't understand your last post to me. Are you trying to say that you have gotten the "official" word about this issue from REMA, Ecotality, Toyota, Tesla, and Yazaki and they support the "facts" of this issue as you have expressed them here (and elsewhere)?

 

[TonyWilliams]

TonyWilliams: I don't understand your last post to me. Are you trying to say that you have gotten the "official" word about this issue from REMA, Ecotality, Toyota, Tesla, and Yazaki and they support the "facts" of this issue as you have expressed them here (and elsewhere)?

I have posted any details about this on this forum. You're welcome to search.

What I'm saying is I'm tired of hand holding deniers of basic facts. You're welcome to produce your own facts, or get information from the parties involved. Yes, I've been briefed by several of them, and yes, it's been posted.

 

[evnow]

Tony,

Have you tried charging Rav4 with with Blinks in the wild ?

I have, a few times. I now have the 70C thermal protection (this is too cheap and simple not to do, thanks Phil!!) and I carry a cheap $20 Sears IR temperature measuring tool.

I'm guessing you didn't have an a\issue with any other Blinks, then ?

Just trying to assess the extent of the problematic Blink units.

Sometimes I feel, Ecotality is single handedly responsible for slowing adoption with their real bungling of the work for which they got free money. Very poor selection on EPA's part.