Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[Ingineer]

All that being said, here is my experience,
As some of you may remember my Leaf had a charger failure May 14th of this year. During the diagnosis period there was much conjecture about possible causes and as you would expect Nissan was looking for it to be something other that the Leaf's fault. The whole episode culminated with a pair of Japanese engineers accompanied by a Nissan Technical Service Manager coming to my house to test my blink. The NTSM acted very concerned that I had used a Rev 1 modified EVSE. I assured them that I only used it AFTER the blink would no longer charge my car and the charger (diode) had already failed. He wanted to test it but I had sent it out for Rev 2 modification when my Leaf went to the dealer (they kept my Leaf 3 weeks before this meeting took place). So there was much concern that the modified EVSE was a contributing factor and I had to repeatedly state the timeline to make it very clear it was not in anyway related. I had another meeting with the same NTSM at Wilsonville Nissan 9/22 and he again asked me about the mini EVSE and the fact that I had been TIG welding that day. I assured him again, the car was being driven up in Washington at the time of failure and was not related to welding or the mini EVSE in anyway. He told me the engineers had not found a cause for the failure although they suspect a lightning strike was the cause of the one in Tennessee. No proof though.

My conclusion: They play their cards very close to the chest. The NTSM's mission is damage control and to be the translator. No matter what, they will not admit any liability on Nissan's part nor give out any technical info. They never once said outright that I should not use the Rev 2 EVSE or blamed it for the failure.

What these tour people may be circulating is all the rumor mill FUD churned up in the wake of my and 2 other Leaf's charger failures. Isn't it just like the internet, the good info gets buried under weight of FUD being circulated.

My $.02

ON EDIT: My rev 2 mini EVSE works perfectly.

Thanks for posting this!

Here's what I can tell you: The on-board charger used in the LEAF is made for Nissan by Nihicon. It's using high-power IGBT's (Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistors) as the main power handling device. These high-power semiconductors, like all, have a certain "Yeild Rate" from the factory. This means some will never leave the factory, some will be derated and sold as lesser units, and some make it out certified "good", but fail later. These are then used in other manufacturer's products. The Engineering team that builds these, if they are concerned about reliability, is very conservative in their design and allows a wide safety margin so these devices will last a long time in their product. However, a certain amount never pass their quality control, even though the original manufacturer passed them. That's because some fail "in the field". This is why all products have warranties, so it can catch these near "still born" products. This is a normal reality for almost all consumer products, and even more so with complex products like automobiles which are subjected to extremes in daily use.

Given that the EVSE is simply passing power through to the car, unless by some almost unthinkable scenario, it was severely damaged (think shooting at it with a clip of 9mm rounds) I doubt there's any statistically significant way it could ever damage the car. (on board charger module, pack, etc).

Now I can see their concern if you were using a welder, especially TIG, or something like a Plasma Torch, as these are severely noisy, both by emitting EMI/RFI, but they also use large peaks of power intermittently, which can cause severe power disturbance. Many residential power systems cannot adequate to handle this, and if you add 2 large 240v power systems on one heavily configured residential system, especially if it's older, bad things™ are going to happen at some point!!!

But even if you don't meet any of those risk factors, you could still just be one of the few unlucky people out of thousands of LEAFs, who happen to have a power semiconductor fail somewhere in one of the complex systems. This is what the warranty is for, and by repairing the car under warranty, they legally accept responsibility for it and fix it on their dime. You can bet your bottom dollar if they could somehow show it wasn't their fault, they would! If the failures hit a certain percentage, that appears to statistically be higher than they should be, they will revise the design and possibly switch suppliers. Something will be changed so the anomaly will be fixed, and Nissan is being really careful about this stuff, because they have a lot riding on the LEAF, and this program cannot to get bunch of "bad reliability" messages.

-Phil

 

[EVDRIVER]

The house owner may have modified his Fetzer valve, that could have caused the charger to go. I can't believe Nissan did not ask him about that!

 

[TomT]

The wibblefetcher should have prevented that though, even if the transfabulator was not functioning properly... That puts it squarely back on Nissan's shoulders!

The house owner may have modified his Fetzer valve, that could have caused the charger to go. I can't believe Nissan did not ask him about that!

 

[smkettner]

Certainly if Nissan was at all concerned they would have already bought the upgrade and tested it.

 

[tps]

The wibblefetcher should have prevented that though, even if the transfabulator was not functioning properly... That puts it squarely back on Nissan's shoulders!

The house owner may have modified his Fetzer valve, that could have caused the charger to go. I can't believe Nissan did not ask him about that!

Everyone is ignoriing the real cause: it was an incipient transurgency! (Wow, someone is going to have a fun time translating all of this to Japanese when they write up the periodic summary for MNL.)

 

[derkraut]

The house owner may have modified his Fetzer valve, that could have caused the charger to go. I can't believe Nissan did not ask him about that!

Hey! I know an old retired farmer in North Dakota named Fetzer. I think he's the guy that invented the "Fetzer Valve". Maybe I could contact him and see if he has any insight into this issue. I want to help out in any way I can. :mrgreen:

 

[garygid]

What was finally done to fix the LEAF?

Was the diode in the LEAF "blown" (open or shorted)?

What part was replaced?

 

[Ingineer]

Certainly if Nissan was at all concerned they would have already bought the upgrade and tested it.

I have reports that Nissan Engineers from Japan came over and tested one of our upgraded units. They are definitely aware of them too!

-Phil

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Certainly if Nissan was at all concerned they would have already bought the upgrade and tested it.

ya, like you think they havent?? the fact that they have not come out with much stronger wording on the Modd tells me, they have tested it, found nothing wrong and are grudgingly accepting it while at the same time pondering if its worth the trouble to find a way to test several dozen for a quality control base line

**edit** ooops already addressed

 

[EVDRIVER]

Certainly if Nissan was at all concerned they would have already bought the upgrade and tested it.

ya, like you think they havent?? the fact that they have not come out with much stronger wording on the Modd tells me, they have tested it, found nothing wrong and are grudgingly accepting it while at the same time pondering if its worth the trouble to find a way to test several dozen for a quality control base line

**edit** ooops already addressed

I know their engineers have seen and even used one a very long time ago. This entire point is silly, it's like debating if one extension cord will charm your hedge trimmer over another. It's really that basic. As much as the EV Charge America EVSE is a complete slapped together POS, it won't harm a LEAF but it will likely only work for a week assuming it works when you get it :lol: Nissan has real issues to attend to instead of coddling AV that is pissed off they lost much of their business to evseupgrade. My guess is Nissan is quietly happy as it gets more LEAFs out there faster and at a less objectionable cost to consumers.

 

[mitch672]

If Nissan was truly smart, they would just use the Japanese/European Panasonic units they supply with those Leafs in the US, those already have this capability. They are probably waiting for their Aerovironment contract to expire before they do it....

 

[Ingineer]

If Nissan was truly smart, they would just use the Japanese/European Panasonic units they supply with those Leafs in the US, those already have this capability. They are probably waiting for their Aerovironment contract to expire before they do it....

Depends on where you are. The UK unit is 13a IIRC, some in the EU are only 8a. Only ours will also work on 120v, so you'd need to have 2. We are shipping units all over the world now, as none of the Panasonic units are configured to charge at 16A.

-Phil

 

[jkirkebo]

If Nissan was truly smart, they would just use the Japanese/European Panasonic units they supply with those Leafs in the US, those already have this capability. They are probably waiting for their Aerovironment contract to expire before they do it....

Depends on where you are. The UK unit is 13a IIRC, some in the EU are only 8a. Only ours will also work on 120v, so you'd need to have 2. We are shipping units all over the world now, as none of the Panasonic units are configured to charge at 16A.

-Phil

Actually, the spanish and portugese ones are supposed to be 16A, with a blue CEE connector. The Norwegian ones are only 10A though, so mine is going in for upgrading as soon as I get the car.

 

[muus]

Hey Ingeneer, in the SPX thread you indicated: "FYI: The Canadian EVSE supplied with the Leaf, which looks identical to ours, is supplied with 16AWG cable on the J1772 side, and a special 13A rated Yazaki plug. It pulls the same 12A on 120v as ours."

So I guess that means no Rev.2 upgrade for Canadians? Perhaps the Canadian Panasonic EVSE would be cheaper?

 

[Ingineer]

Hey Ingeneer, in the SPX thread you indicated: "FYI: The Canadian EVSE supplied with the Leaf, which looks identical to ours, is supplied with 16AWG cable on the J1772 side, and a special 13A rated Yazaki plug. It pulls the same 12A on 120v as ours."

So I guess that means no Rev.2 upgrade for Canadians? Perhaps the Canadian Panasonic EVSE would be cheaper?

Correct. We can only upgrade the Canadian units to Rev1. Inexplicably, they are also substantially more expensive. Most of our Canadian customers are buying new US units upgraded to Rev 2 from us.

-Phil

 

[muus]

Inexplicably, they are also substantially more expensive.

:evil: So Canadians pay over $2000 more for the Leaf, get a lower quality Panasonic EVSE which also costs more. Furthermore there is no National incentive on electric vehicle purchases. No wonder Nissan doesn't expect to sell many of them in Canada. :evil:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

all Canadian Cars are priced significantly higher than their American counterparts. i know a few who paid $35,000 for a Prius.

 

[kmp647]

has anyone had their 2012 US model Nissan evse modified?

are there any changes to the 2012 panasonic unit ?

 

[Ingineer]

has anyone had their 2012 US model Nissan evse modified?

are there any changes to the 2012 panasonic unit ?

So far, no, it's the same unit except for the ~$200 price hike. (MSRP $934.82) But they could change it at any time.

-Phil

 

[turbo2ltr]

This girl I'm seeing lives in an apartment complex. Aside from renting a garage from the apartment complex at $100 a month just so I can have a 110 outlet (which would be unethical to use, and who knows what else is on that circuit), I decided to spring for the upgrade so I can charge at work when my car doesn't get parked in my garage overnight. Unfortunately work power (which I pay for) is a little more expensive than off peak solar powered energy I use to charge at home, but I guess those are the sacrifices you have to make when dating.. lol. Just have to install a 240V outlet and I'll be good to go.

Thanks for making this available.