rcyoder
Well-known member
brad11140 said:
Check with Dianne Whitmire @ Carson Toyota -- she's been able to get RAV4-EVs to people across the country.
http://www.carsontoyota.com/fleet-internet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Considering lease for commute from Las Vegas. Will this wor
- Thread starter brad11140
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Check with Dianne Whitmire @ Carson Toyota -- she's been able to get RAV4-EVs to people across the country.
http://www.carsontoyota.com/fleet-internet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
brad11140 said:
The 120 volt "charger cord" that comes with the car works at the same speed, 12 amps, regardless of the actual maximum output of the charger on 240 volts.
Yes, it appears you could get by on 120 volts at work, as you will add about 4-5 miles of range per hour of charging. I don't know what the turn around at home needs to be, but perhaps that can be 120 volts, too.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
brad11140 said:
You don't need to do that. Contact Dianne at Carson Toyota and tell her I sent you. She'll whip you up an honest, no bullshit deal, and ship it to you. No California taxes and you'll have it in a few days, delivered to your door. Fedex the paperwork back and forth.
There is only one option: Color
Blizzard Pearl white (about $300 extra, it's what I have)
Blue (most popular color)
Silver (least popular color)
That's it. Simple...
http://www.buyatoyota.com/Specials/SpecialOffers.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Offer Ends 9/3/2013:
CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credits and rebates.
****************
CURRENT ADVERTISED PURCHASE OFFER
No stated Toyota discount, but typically $7500
0.0% APR for 36 months, 0.0% APR for 48 months or 0.0% APR for 60 months. Includes ToyotaCare
0.0% APR includes 36 monthly payments of $27.78 per $1000 borrowed. 0.0% APR includes 48 monthly payments of $20.83 per $1000 borrowed. 0.0% APR includes 60 monthly payments of $16.67 per $1000 borrowed.
For example 10% down. Down payment varies with credit. Available through Toyota Financial Services to qualified Tier 1 + (plus), Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 credit customers. Available on a new 2013 RAV4EV purchased out of dealer stock by midnight 9/3/2013. Offers cannot be combined. See your Toyota dealer for details.
CURRENT ADVERTISED LEASE OFFER
$299 a month plus tax for 36 months, limited miles
$329 a month plus tax for 36 months, Special Payment for Unlimited Mileage
$3,499 Drive-off
After $15,400 Lease Cash is applied NOTE: last month this was called "$15,400 TFS Subvention Lease Cash" Apparently, you get to pay sales tax on the discount!!! CAVEAT EMPTOR
Sales tax not included and is calculated (estimated at $1,600) before lease cash is applied. Includes ToyotaCare
$7500 federal credit (IRS form 8936) applies to new cars only with purchase only, not on a lease, and $2,500 California state rebate to for new cars only. Apply here (your state or province may also have incentives for out of state sales). CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credit.
Lease Cash must be applied to lease down payment. Lease available only through Toyota Financial Services to qualified buyers. Offer excludes applicable taxes and fees. No security deposit required. You pay excess wear and tear, plus $.15 per mile over 36,000 miles at lease end. Lease payments may vary from dealer to dealer based on final negotiated price and equipment chosen. Lease offer is example only and applies only to new 2013 Toyota RAV4 EV Model #4480. Example vehicle may not be available at all dealers. Must be leased from new car dealer stock by midnight 09/03/2013. Lease example requires dealer contribution. Individual dealer lease terms may vary.
********************
$7500 federal tax credit (IRS form 8936)is on a purchase ONLY !!! CAVEAT EMPTOR: Toyota does not pass this credit to you on a lease - CHANGE FOR JULY 2013, they have begun offering you the $7500 fed tax credit in the lease.
$2500 California state credit does apply to lease or purchase for California only. Apply here. Your state or province may also have incentives.
CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credits and rebates.
***************************
The only differences between a 2013 and 2012 model year is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) has a "D" the replaces the "C" in the 8th digit from the right. The 2014 will likely have an E. You will find the VIN through the front window, looking from the outside on the driver's side, at the bottom.
I do not expect that there will be many 2012 model year cars still available. The 2014 model year will be the last of the run after 2600 total are produced.
*************************
Sales tax - on an "in-state" purchase, you pay the applicable tax for your county/city. For an in state lease, you pay a "use tax" on the monthly payment. For out-of-state, you pay nothing to California with a proper Bill of Laden from a shipping company. DO NOT TAKE DELIVERY IN CALIFORNIA unless you want to pay our taxes!!! You will pay applicable taxes in your out-of-state jurisdiction. There's a whole thread devoted to out-of-state purchases and leases.
**************************
TYPICAL PURCHASE deals for NEW (not used) should look like this:
New Rav4 EV (not used)
$2000 - $4000 typical dealers discounts (the dealers are getting 2% "holdback", and the salesperson gets $1000 from Toyota USA and the sales manager get $500... don't worry about hammering them on a good deal)
$50,870 Retail MSRP (inc floor mats and destination, add $395 for "Blizzard Pearl" white paint)
($2,000-$4,000) Dealer Discount
($7,500 - $10,000) Toyota Cash with 0.0% interest for up to 60 months
$80 doc fee
$36,870 - $41,370 net cost plus tax and license. This is what you will pay in the dealership without tax or shipping from California to your out of state location
$5,000 sales tax and license plates in California. Your state may vary wildly
$500 - $1,000 shipping to you from the dealer, if applicable
Then:
($7,500) Fed Tax Credit (you will get this with your taxes with IRS form 8936)
($2,500) CA State Rebate (you will get this when you mail in a form), Apply here.
$26,870 - $31,370 Total Net Cost plus tax/license/shipping to you, if applicable
TYPICAL LEASE
From Dianne @ Carson Toyota:
$0 down, $444 monthly, 36 months, $19k-ish residual. For a few bucks more, you get UNLIMITED miles.
**************************
USED Rav4 EV's:
If you buy used, even with almost zero miles on the car, you not only lose the tax credits and rebates, you also lose the ability to "Lemon Law" the car should it come to that.
***************************
NOTE TO ALL OUT OF STATE BUYERS:
I recommend having a local California current Rav4 EV owner test drive your car at the dealer before shipping to you out of state. My particular car had excessive motor noise from new, so it will be easy to identify the same situation before the car is shipped to you.
***************************
COMMON DEALERSHIP DELIVERY ISSUES:
IF YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITHOUT FUNCTIONING INTERIOR LIGHTS:
A pin is located in the engine bay passenger side fuse box to activate the lights. Inside that fuse box, there is a white "fuse" without any number and that is the "pin". Under the fuse cover, there is a location labeled "short". Put the "pin" into the "short" slot and interior function like light, garage door opener, external door handle switch will be activated.
IF YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITH A REGISTRATION FOR A OIL BURNING CAR INSTEAD OF AN ELECTRIC CAR:
Make sure your dealership ticked the correct box for "motive power" on the registration. If they incorrectly entered "gas", you'll need to get it corrected. In California, the DMV requests that the dealership complete Sections G & H of form "Reg 256". For section G, the sample response given was:
"Due to a clerical error on the Report of Sale, the motive power was entered as "gas (G)", when the actual motive power for this vehicle is "100% electric (E)". Please correct. No fraud intended."
The dealer then signs and dates Section H.
IF YOU WANT YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITH SPECIFIC SETTINGS:
Have you dealer set the reverse beeper that will blast you out of the car in reverse to a single beep. I highly recommend writing this in the contract, particularly for an out of state sale. You will not like this distracting beeping in reverse. Also, I recommend setting the auto door locks to whatever setting you want prior to delivery.
****************************
Apply for your California HOV lane stickers (less than $20) after you have a license plate issued to your car:
Apply here
Berlino
Well-known member
brad11140 said:
You're in luck, the RAV4 EV's battery is from Tesla. Possibly part or all of the drive-train as well.
Tesla made deals with Mercedes and Toyota a few years ago when they had cash-flow problems.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Berlino said:
Everything in the EV drivetrain is from Tesla... Toyota didn't do much to convert the car to an EV and it still has exhaust hangers on it.
planet4ever
Well-known member
Quite true, except that it isn't 8 hours. It's 4 hours maximum vs. 7 hours maximum. And the maximums apply only if you are charging from down well below the "Low Battery Warning" to 100%. The reason it isn't 2:1 is that the faster charger isn't twice as fast as the slower one. Note what Nissan says:brad11140 said:
3.6 kW onboard charger (3.3 kW output) -- Charging time (est.) 220V ~ 7 hrs
6.6 kW onboard charger (6.0 kW output) -- Charging time (est.) 220V ~ 4 hrs
Note also that the 4 hour and 7 hour numbers assume 220v. You almost certainly have 240v, which will reduce the times, except that they are estimating from LBW to 100%. That's why I said "well below LBW" just above.
Ray
I'm surprised no-one mentioned the elevation gain/loss on this trip which could be a factor. Let's at least run the numbers.
Presumed route: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=I-15+S&daddr=I-15+S&hl=en&sll=36.070747,-115.190964&sspn=0.4379,0.510178&geocode=FZPzJwId5dki-Q%3BFYRCHgIdPM8e-Q&oq=Primm&t=h&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=11&z=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From LV to Ivanpah it's about 600 ft net elevation loss and 600 ft on the way back. There is an additional 400 ft of climbing to do in between.
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1377242185-00748-P-76.176.44.98.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So 50 miles on the way to Ivanpah will be a piece of cake given the downhill. Net 600 ft of climbing will use about 1 kWh extra energy.
Assuming you drive 65 mph indicated which would get you around 4.0 mi/kWh on flat ground, you'll use about 11.5 kWh on the way to Ivanpah and 13.5 kWh on the way back.
Add in 1 kWh to heat/cool the cabin and now you're at 12.5 kWh there and 14.5 kWh back.
After 2 years of Vegas heat starting on a 100% charge you'll be getting back to Vegas right around the first LBW which should be fine - that gives you about 3-4 kWh of buffer. But it could be closer than that depending on how much capacity you lose and your only option will be to slow down or get really good at drafting.
If charging on 120V, you will definitely need to charge the nearly the whole 12 hours to get back to 100%.
Anyway, I think it will be possible - you will definitely need a way to charge at least on L1 and preferably on L2.
The other option is a RAV4 EV - as Tony says has nearly twice the battery of the LEAF, probably won't lose as much capacity as the LEAF in the Vegas heat since it's pack is thermally conditioned, and if you range charge it, you shouldn't have any issue driving both ways on a single charge as long as you drive conservatively.
Another option is a Volt - you should be able to drive electric all the way there with the down-hill, but you'll burn some gas on the way back.
BTW - when is Ivanpah going to come online? I heard there have been some delays? No updates on the website for a while now, construction should be complete and are working on final commissioning of the plant?
Presumed route: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=I-15+S&daddr=I-15+S&hl=en&sll=36.070747,-115.190964&sspn=0.4379,0.510178&geocode=FZPzJwId5dki-Q%3BFYRCHgIdPM8e-Q&oq=Primm&t=h&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=11&z=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From LV to Ivanpah it's about 600 ft net elevation loss and 600 ft on the way back. There is an additional 400 ft of climbing to do in between.
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1377242185-00748-P-76.176.44.98.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So 50 miles on the way to Ivanpah will be a piece of cake given the downhill. Net 600 ft of climbing will use about 1 kWh extra energy.
Assuming you drive 65 mph indicated which would get you around 4.0 mi/kWh on flat ground, you'll use about 11.5 kWh on the way to Ivanpah and 13.5 kWh on the way back.
Add in 1 kWh to heat/cool the cabin and now you're at 12.5 kWh there and 14.5 kWh back.
After 2 years of Vegas heat starting on a 100% charge you'll be getting back to Vegas right around the first LBW which should be fine - that gives you about 3-4 kWh of buffer. But it could be closer than that depending on how much capacity you lose and your only option will be to slow down or get really good at drafting.
If charging on 120V, you will definitely need to charge the nearly the whole 12 hours to get back to 100%.
Anyway, I think it will be possible - you will definitely need a way to charge at least on L1 and preferably on L2.
The other option is a RAV4 EV - as Tony says has nearly twice the battery of the LEAF, probably won't lose as much capacity as the LEAF in the Vegas heat since it's pack is thermally conditioned, and if you range charge it, you shouldn't have any issue driving both ways on a single charge as long as you drive conservatively.
Another option is a Volt - you should be able to drive electric all the way there with the down-hill, but you'll burn some gas on the way back.
BTW - when is Ivanpah going to come online? I heard there have been some delays? No updates on the website for a while now, construction should be complete and are working on final commissioning of the plant?
drees said:I'm surprised no-one mentioned the elevation gain/loss on this trip which could be a factor. Let's at least run the numbers.
Presumed route: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=I-15+S&daddr=I-15+S&hl=en&sll=36.070747,-115.190964&sspn=0.4379,0.510178&geocode=FZPzJwId5dki-Q%3BFYRCHgIdPM8e-Q&oq=Primm&t=h&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=11&z=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From LV to Ivanpah it's about 600 ft net elevation loss and 600 ft on the way back. There is an additional 400 ft of climbing to do in between.
http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1377242185-00748-P-76.176.44.98.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So 50 miles on the way to Ivanpah will be a piece of cake given the downhill. Net 600 ft of climbing will use about 1 kWh extra energy.
Assuming you drive 65 mph indicated which would get you around 4.0 mi/kWh on flat ground, you'll use about 11.5 kWh on the way to Ivanpah and 13.5 kWh on the way back.
Add in 1 kWh to heat/cool the cabin and now you're at 12.5 kWh there and 14.5 kWh back.
After 2 years of Vegas heat starting on a 100% charge you'll be getting back to Vegas right around the first LBW which should be fine - that gives you about 3-4 kWh of buffer. But it could be closer than that depending on how much capacity you lose and your only option will be to slow down or get really good at drafting.
If charging on 120V, you will definitely need to charge the nearly the whole 12 hours to get back to 100%.
Anyway, I think it will be possible - you will definitely need a way to charge at least on L1 and preferably on L2.
The other option is a RAV4 EV - as Tony says has nearly twice the battery of the LEAF, probably won't lose as much capacity as the LEAF in the Vegas heat since it's pack is thermally conditioned, and if you range charge it, you shouldn't have any issue driving both ways on a single charge as long as you drive conservatively.
Another option is a Volt - you should be able to drive electric all the way there with the down-hill, but you'll burn some gas on the way back.
BTW - when is Ivanpah going to come online? I heard there have been some delays? No updates on the website for a while now, construction should be complete and are working on final commissioning of the plant?
Hopefully our first unit will be coming online in October. There have been delays but we are almost there. I work for NRG as an operations supervisor. So we are very anxious to get this place going. It gets boring.
Great info from everyone. I am looking at the Rav4 EV and I contacted Dianne. She already wrote me back. Apparently the only way I could take advantage of the unlimited mile lease is if I use my CA address. If I have to pay CA taxes you can be damned sure I will try to get the CA state rebate as well.
SSS
Active member
I live in SoCal low desert, near Indio, CA - Leaf has been through 2 hot summers with daily summer temps >105f, with highs up to 122f. Total miles 9600 and it still has excellent range. This month I lost the 1st bar, so I still have 11 which seems to be reasonable and predictable for the first 9600 miles, anyplace.
Some owners in Phoenix & Texas had battery problems, but most have not. Many of us in even hotter climes have yet to have any problems, except ... we live so far from the network of public chargers, with no QCDC, so our driving range is limited to about 75-85 mile round-trips. Fortunately, the local Nissan dealer (Torre Nissan) gives us 12 free rentals each year for our longer distant trips. Nice.
Some owners in Phoenix & Texas had battery problems, but most have not. Many of us in even hotter climes have yet to have any problems, except ... we live so far from the network of public chargers, with no QCDC, so our driving range is limited to about 75-85 mile round-trips. Fortunately, the local Nissan dealer (Torre Nissan) gives us 12 free rentals each year for our longer distant trips. Nice.
planet4ever
Well-known member
If you go that route you will also have to keep it registered with the CA DMV using your CA address. The CVRP folks crosscheck against DMV records, and apparently get notified if your DMV registration expires.brad11140 said:
Ray
planet4ever said:
Seems to me leasing out of state is going to be a bit of a pain. I'm not even sure I need unlimited miles. I need to compare the cost of miles I expect to exceed on the lease each year with whatever the lease cost is for unlimited miles. I'll find out when I talk to Dianne later.
The whole thing sounds crazy to me if for no other reason than the back seat of the Leaf is mighty uncomfortable. The RAV4 is a better choice though you're still going to get killed on the mileage overcharge. Also note that for the same price you could probably lease two Leafs, using them on alternative days, once you took the mileage charges and maintenance/repair costs into account.
The Spark and Fiat 500e are too small. The Volt is larger but the back seats are probably too small. The advantage of that is you'd get a 150,000 warranty on the drive train if you bought it in CA.
The advantage of getting anything other than a Leaf is that, because you don't have to worry about battery degradation, you can buy it. The Leaf is problematical on the battery front.
The Spark and Fiat 500e are too small. The Volt is larger but the back seats are probably too small. The advantage of that is you'd get a 150,000 warranty on the drive train if you bought it in CA.
The advantage of getting anything other than a Leaf is that, because you don't have to worry about battery degradation, you can buy it. The Leaf is problematical on the battery front.
How are you managing 75-85 mile round trips after losing a bar when a new LEAF only does about 85 miles max at 62 mph ground speed (speedo would read 64-65)? I haven't even lost a bar and 70 miles at an indicated 65 mph with some city driving mixed in gets me past LBW. I pretty much plan on having a backup plan any time I might expect to drive more than 60 miles on the freeway at an indicated 65 mph - part of that backup plan is driving slower than 65 mph when possible to preserve range.SSS said:
It seems that the RAV4-EV is ideal for this commute with little to no compromises if one can plug in at work. The LEAF will very likely require some compromises near the end of the 2-year lease - which may be acceptable depending on your perspective which it sounds like Brad is ready for (but are his co-workers who will be sharing the car?).
I find the back-seat fine - not as comfortable as the RAV4-EV, but not significantly worse than any other compact/midsize vehicle.
Nubo
Well-known member
( GIANT WALL OF QUOTED TEXT......)
(THE SAME GIANT WALL OF QUOTED TEXT....)
Just a point of Net etiquette, Brad. There's no need to re-quote very large posts in their entirety, just to say "thanks", etc... It fills up the page and annoys other readers. Try quoting just a relevant sentence or two....
brad11140 said:
(THE SAME GIANT WALL OF QUOTED TEXT....)
brad11140 said:
Just a point of Net etiquette, Brad. There's no need to re-quote very large posts in their entirety, just to say "thanks", etc... It fills up the page and annoys other readers. Try quoting just a relevant sentence or two....
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