Consumer Reports: Nissan Leaf: Full test results are in

[svBackstreets]

Good news for Nissan

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/09/nissan-leaf-full-test-results-are-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Stoaty]

Here is the interesting part of the article:

"We rented a device that allowed us to tap into the car’s diagnostics port and showed us exact consumption. We also correlated what the car consumed on-board to what it took to charge and established that charging efficiency is 85 percent. In other words, 15 percent of the electricity you charge goes to waste."

Gary, did you rent them a SOC meter?

 

[smkettner]

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

Also the many hours to recharge comment is not balanced with charging will generally take place while the vehicle is parked and the driver is engaged in some other activity like sleep. Very rarely would someone plug in and wait there while it charges. I tell people it takes 10 seconds to charge, 5 to connect and 5 to disconnect. (less time than my gas powered truck for the same miles driven) When fueling Leaf I never spill or step in gas or diesel fuel at the station either. And anyone that struggles with a gasoline fuel nozzle or has constant early shut offs will really appreciate the J1772 connector.

 

[Stoaty]

Also the many hours to recharge comment is not balanced with charging will generally take place while the vehicle is parked and the driver is engaged in some other activity like sleep.

It takes many hours for a FULL charge, which I virtually never need. My typical charge is 2.5 hours for a 47 mile round trip commute. Tonite I am going all out and charging to 100%, which I figure is going to take a whopping 3 hours from the 5 fuel bars presently showing. Before I bought the Leaf I was thinking about 7 hours of charging nightly... never been there yet.

 

[Boomer23]

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

I agree. That was the first thing I noticed that I flat disagreed with. Our Leaf is definitely our primary car. Our other car is used only when we need to use two cars at once (going in different directions at the same time, for instance), or when the range is too far for the Leaf. That turns out to be quite infrequent.

 

[smkettner]

Before I bought the Leaf I was thinking about 7 hours of charging nightly... never been there yet.

This is exactly the implication that is flat wrong. Even if correct it would still be 100% every morning and take zero time out of your day.

 

[Nekota]

I have found using the miles per charging hours gives most people a clear understanding of the charging time. I travel about 30 miles per day and with 15 miles per charging hour it takes 2 hours to recharge the lost capacity.

 

[TRONZ]

It seemed like a very no nonsense review. Very straightforward. So is a "primary car" the one you spend the most hours in or the one that gets the most miles??? Just wondering.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

This is what I tell people - similar to what otehrs said above:
(developed from 10 years of 2002 RAV4 EV driving, though the LEAF charges half as fast as my 10 year old RAV4 EV, and has about 10 miles less range than the 46,000 mile 10 year old NiMH pack in my RAV4 EV - though there are more LEAFs and there half the cost of my RAV4 EV)

Takes 10 seconds to charge - I timed it - 5 seconds to plug in at night and 5 seconds to unplug in the morning.

IF I go over 80 miles in one day, I'll get 12.5 miles of range for every hour of charging, yes the 2011 LEAF has a whimpy charger, the 2013 LEAF will charge twice as fast.

Air Conditioning is the only accessory worth mentioning and don't even think about unless you need to drive over 75 miles that day without charging.

Going more than 80 miles a day is possible if you can charge at work, use a quick charger or other charging station, even a standard 120V outlet (4.5 miles/hour of charge). Many times you can have the car charging while you're doing something else that you would be doing anyway, so I almost NEVER WAIT for the car to charge - it's always ready to go when I need it.

You take the right vehicle for the mission, you don't take a two seater Lamborghini when you have a family of four to go somewhere, most people don't commute in a Winnebago RV, and if you want to go from San Francisco to LA in 6 hours, the LEAF isn't the vehicle for that, take your other car, borrow, rent a car or fly. This city and neighboring cities, the primiary car that I take every day - IS THE LEAF. I've LEFT my Prius to be lonely, and use it about once every 2 weeks, sometimes just so it won't feel lonely and the 12V battery will stay charged!!!

 

[surfingslovak]

Gary, did you rent them a SOC meter?

Perhaps it was something similar to the ominous DR-V box from the other thread? I liked the CR report too, and I was quite pleased to see that they confirmed the 85% charging efficiency figure, which was first established through joint efforts here on the forum.

 

[TonyWilliams]

pleased to see that they confirmed the 85% charging efficiency figure, which was first established through joint efforts here on the forum.

There were plenty of non-believers !!! (maybe, there still are!).

Not the right thread, but I just put this together to stick in my car window while in sits in Balboa Park, San Diego, tomorrow morning. Compiled and stolen from many thoughts first posted here:

2011 Nissan LEAF



• Not a hybrid; powered 100% by electricity that is mostly made in USA, not in the Middle East. Almost no electricity is produced from oil in the USA
• There is no gasoline motor; no smog checks, no oil changes, no camshaft belts, no tune-ups, no air and oil filters, no oil drips on the driveway/garage. The Chevrolet Volt has and uses a gasoline motor in addition to the electric motor
• Zero tailpipe emissions, and zero emissions from electricity produced by solar, wind, and hydro (dam) power
• 70 to 100 mile range on a full charge
• Lithium Maganese battery has a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty
o No battery acid in battery
o Power does not taper off as battery gets lower in energy
• Charging is normally done overnight, just like plugging in your cell phone
• Highest rated 5 star crash test by US government
• The car’s charger draws about 3.8 kW; a little less than an electric clothes dryer at 4.4 kW
• The car is equipped with a noise maker so that pedestrians can hear it
• COSTS:
o Purchase is $35,000 to $40,000, a lease is about $450 per month
o $2 to $4 to "fill up" the battery with electricity overnight at your house
o 3 cents per mile energy cost (4 miles per kWh @ $0.12 each)
• It costs 20 cents per mile for 20mpg gas car at $4 gallon for gas
• Toyota Prius hybrid car costs 8 cents per mile (about 250% more)
• Made in Japan by Nissan
o To be built in Smyrna, Tennessee, USA in 2013, in America's largest car plant. Capacity of the plant, 550,000 units per year.
o The batteries will be made in a separate factory in Tennessee
• Eligible of California HOV (Car Pool Lane) sticker until January 2015


Fun Gasoline Facts:

• To extract and refine one gallon of gasoline takes about 12 kWh of energy (not all electricity). That can power the Nissan LEAF about 48 miles.
• In 2010, the U.S. imports oil from Mexico (11%) and from Canada (21%). 42% comes from OPEC.
• It takes over 2 gallons of crude oil to produce one gallon of gasoline.

Popular Misconceptions:

1. Electricity is produced from coal: Yes, it is in much of the USA; about 45%, but not in San Diego. Presently SDG&E has only one contract for energy that comes from coal, and it accounts for just 3% overall energy. The contract will sunset in 2013, at which time SDG&E will have no direct coal-sourced supplies. SDG&E is building a 500kV line called the Sunrise Powerlink, a 120-mile line intended to carry renewable energy (solar, wind, etc) from the Imperial Valley to San Diego. The line is expected to be in service by 2012. About one third of San Diego LEAF owners have solar panels (I do, too; 8kW of power).
2) Electric car batteries will fill up landfills with toxic waste: 94% of lead-acid batteries that EVERY gas car has are recycled and there is no reason that Li-ion batteries cannot be recycled as well. Unlike lead-acid batteries, in addition to recycling, a secondary market will be created for used electric vehicle batteries to provide residential and commercial electricity during peak demand periods.
3) Batteries cost too much: Yes, they are very expensive. But, like any emerging technology, the cost comes down quickly with widespread adoption, like televisions, computers, cell phones, etc. The Nissan LEAF has an 8 year/100,000 miles warranty, where you will spend nothing.
4) Hydrogen is today’s answer: Perhaps, in 20 years. Unlike electricity, which is everywhere, there is no efficient way to generate hydrogen, there is no pipeline infrastructure to transport it and there are no refueling stations.
5) Nobody would buy a LEAF without big government handouts: Currently, there is a $7500 tax credit from the US government and a $2500 rebate from the state of California. Both of these will expire eventually, and then we’ll know if this is right or wrong!! Nissan is selling every single one they can produce, and there is a waiting list to get one (I waited 13 months total).

 

[TRONZ]

Great list! We should keep a stack of them as flyers in our cars to hand out.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

pleased to see that they confirmed the 85% charging efficiency figure, which was first established through joint efforts here on the forum.

There were plenty of non-believers !!! (maybe, there still are!).

Not the right thread, but I just put this together to stick in my car window while in sits in Balboa Park, San Diego, tomorrow morning. Compiled and stolen from many thoughts first posted here:
Fun Gasoline Facts:

• To extract and refine one gallon of gasoline takes about 12 kWh of energy (not all electricity). That can power the Nissan LEAF about 48 miles.
....
Popular Misconceptions:

1. Electricity is produced from coal: Yes, it is in much of the USA; about 45%, but not in San Diego. Presently SDG&E has only one contract for energy that comes from coal, and it accounts for just 3% overall energy. The contract will sunset in 2013, at which time SDG&E will have no direct coal-sourced supplies. SDG&E is building a 500kV line called the Sunrise Powerlink, a 120-mile line intended to carry renewable energy (solar, wind, etc) from the Imperial Valley to San Diego. The line is expected to be in service by 2012. About one third of San Diego LEAF owners have solar panels (I do, too; 8kW of power).
2) Electric car batteries will fill up landfills with toxic waste: 94% of lead-acid batteries that EVERY gas car has are recycled and there is no reason that Li-ion batteries cannot be recycled as well. Unlike lead-acid batteries, in addition to recycling, a secondary market will be created for used electric vehicle batteries to provide residential and commercial electricity during peak demand periods.

Do you have a source for this:

• To extract and refine one gallon of gasoline takes about 12 kWh of energy (not all electricity). That can power the Nissan LEAF about 48 miles.

I'd love to see the source of that! Actually arguing the full energy costs is valid since the other forms, like natural gas could be used to make eletricity for an EV or saved for something else, but the actual amount of electricity going into making a gallon of gasoline really hits home and illustrates the point! It's several kWh, most of the 6+ kWh figures seem to be including other forms of energy. It seems pretty clear that you could drive an EV at least 10 miles from the electricity alone used to produce, refine and deliver (well-to-wheels) one gallon of gas, counting other forms of energy (natural gas, oil, diesel, etc.) and ev can go 20 to 50 miles depending on what type of gasoline ad the anlysis - shale or Canadian tar sands gasoline is going to be FAR worse!

....10 minute google detour....
You MUST watch this! (Hint, Hilarious, to us anyway, grounded in solid facts and science... Fully Charged!)
HD
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfTiRNzbSko[/youtube] [youtube][/youtube]
http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You might add references to a few key sources to your information sheet, so it will have more credibility, those that want to verify can check your referenced source...

Biggest battery threat is improperly disposed lead acid batteries from every gas car, UPS and many other items. Producction EVs don't even use lead acid batteries, except the accessory battery which is smaller than a conventional gas car battery.

Yup, EVs on the dirtiest US coal grid are still cleaner than a gas car, the Prius come close but only when the EV is poweed from primarily from Coal and you don;t purchase renewable energy certificates. In other areas with less Coal, EVs are, by far, the lowest emissions vehicles, and they are of course zero emissions at point of use where we and our children work, goto school, play and breathe.

Hydrogen - can't reasonably afford it, cheap Hydrogen will still use 3-4 times the energy to make from renewable sources as electricity> I have enough solar panels on my roof to power my LEAF eletric from electricity. A Hydrogen vehicle needs 3-4 times as many which won't physically fit and are cost prohibitive. 3-4x the fuel costs makes Hydrogen cost prohibitive for anything an EV can do, even if you give me the Hydrogen car for free. Hydrogen will have it's place for stationary fuel cells, long distance, heavy haul travel that EVs are not yet suited for.

 

[TomT]

No, I believe they are likely correct. It will not be appropriate as an only vehicle for a not insignificant cross section of America. Many of us think like early-adopters and save-the-planet types and the majority of folks do not fit that mold and that will not sell them EVs.

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

 

[Stoaty]

No, I believe they are likely correct. It will not be appropriate as an only vehicle for a not insignificant cross section of America. Many of us think like early-adopters and save-the-planet types and the majority of folks do not fit that mold and that will not sell them EVs.

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

You guys are talking about different things; you are both right. It won't be appropriate as the only vehicle for a significant portion of the population. However, it will work well as the primary vehicle for the majority, although many will need to have an ICE vehicle for the longer trips.

 

[Hedge74]

No, I believe they are likely correct. It will not be appropriate as an only vehicle for a not insignificant cross section of America. Many of us think like early-adopters and save-the-planet types and the majority of folks do not fit that mold and that will not sell them EVs.

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

You guys are talking about different things; you are both right. It won't be appropriate as the only vehicle for a significant portion of the population. However, it will work well as the primary vehicle for the majority, although many will need to have an ICE vehicle for the longer trips.

This is what gets me. I have never taken my own car on a trip of over 300 miles. I always rent a car. There are several reason:

Wear and tear on my car
Having a Mechanical issue ruin the trip
Passenger and Cargo Space


Hedge

 

[evnow]

I think the last line is flat wrong stating the Leaf will not be your primary vehicle. Maybe for long trips but day to day around town it IS our family's primary vehicle.

On this I have to give props to CR. Instead of the usual nonsense that Leaf can only be your "second" vehicle - they are clearly saying it is difficult as the only vehicle.

We think the Leaf is a milestone. You give up nothing in performance or practicality compared with other small hatchbacks, but gain in acceleration and quietness. Clearly, you can’t easily take it on a long trip, especially an unplanned one, so it may not be the right choice for a single-car household. But so long as you can accept its limitations, the Leaf is an enjoyable car to buzz around in, as well as a sensible and economical choice.