Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

[DaveEV]

I need to compare outside vs garage, will try to do that, but unfortunately my EVSE cable doesn't reach outside - I guess I can use the EVSEupgrade. But charging definitely increases temps by 3-4F for me compared to not charging. Pack gets close (71-72F) to garage temps (70F) and sensor readings are very even (within 1F or so) if I don't charge it for the typical 1.5-2 hours at night. If the pack is charged for 2 hours pack will be 74-75F+ with a 2-3F spread between sensors. I don't think that having the OBC coolant lines run over the pack helps things out that much...

 

[opencar]

I have only had the Battery App running for about 10 days so far so my results are very tentative. It does appear to me that the pack heats up quite easily and takes a long time to cool down. The pack in my car is often about 8 to 10 degrees warmer in the morning than the overnight low.

I have tried parking outdoors and indoors and found very little change in morning pack temps. I expected a bigger difference. I have also compared charging every day and every other day. Charging seems to add a little bit of heat but not as much as I thought it would.

One night I parked the car outside with a 20 inch box fan blowing air under the car all night long. The temps seemed to be about the same as parked outside with no fan.

I am curious how these observations on temps compare with what others are seeing.

My observations are generally consistent with yours. Since I charge everyday overnight, my battery temp never gets to garage ambient (66-70 recently). in the morning the batt temp is around 75 due to the 2 hr L2 charging. if I drive on the freeway in the day, the batt temps will hit 82-83 by the end of the day even though ambient outside is 70-72. Can't think of any way to optimize charging schedule.

 

[myleaf]

I have only had the Battery App running for about 10 days so far so my results are very tentative. It does appear to me that the pack heats up quite easily and takes a long time to cool down. The pack in my car is often about 8 to 10 degrees warmer in the morning than the overnight low.

I have tried parking outdoors and indoors and found very little change in morning pack temps. I expected a bigger difference. I have also compared charging every day and every other day. Charging seems to add a little bit of heat but not as much as I thought it would.

One night I parked the car outside with a 20 inch box fan blowing air under the car all night long. The temps seemed to be about the same as parked outside with no fan.

I am curious how these observations on temps compare with what others are seeing.

My observations are generally consistent with yours. Since I charge everyday overnight, my battery temp never gets to garage ambient (66-70 recently). in the morning the batt temp is around 75 due to the 2 hr L2 charging. if I drive on the freeway in the day, the batt temps will hit 82-83 by the end of the day even though ambient outside is 70-72. Can't think of any way to optimize charging schedule.

My limited observations are also similar to both of you. I tried parking outside of the garage and was surprised to observe no sig difference between in the hot garage (next to my wife's ICE) and in the driveway. I also have not found a way to lower the average battery temperature of my LEAF.

 

[kolmstead]

Just another data point... I ran my LEAF down a little below LBW yesterday. True GIDs read 46; 'GIDs read 62. As expected, the error is largest at the low end of the scale, right where we'd prefer the most accuracy.

Average of battery temps over 100 most of the time now, and we're nowhere near summertime highs yet. I'm routinely hitting LBW at 42 miles from an 80% charge. An 80% charge now only gives me 65%, based on GIDs.

-Karl

 

[DaveEV]

Just another data point... I ran my LEAF down a little below LBW yesterday. True GIDs read 46; 'GIDs read 62.

What was your CAP% reading?

I'm routinely hitting LBW at 42 miles from an 80% charge.

At what efficiency (mi/kWh)?

 

[nogajim]

I have been getting 9 bars instead of 10 lately for 80% charge. I am just going below 85% capacity (56.3 Ahr).
I also hit 64 'Gids for LBW the other day. It will be interesting to see what happens when I get the capacity update.

 

[kolmstead]

Drees: CAP% has been running from 81% to 79%, trending down as temp increases. 4.8 mpk today, 42.7 miles. Fairly stiff headwind on the way home; usually I get about 5.2 mpk. 80% charge now yields 65 to 66% charge. Still just one cap bar lost.

Ran a little below LBW again tonight.. 45 GIDs, 61 'GIDs. I like the ease of use and cost of the ELM327 hardware and Turbo3's software; I'm hoping that my low SOC data will help clarify the relationship between measured and simulated GIDs.

As far as my own situation, with the help of the SOC meter, I can charge to 80% and run down below LBW comfortably this summer. I'll have to go back to 100% charging this winter, and stick with that next summer. By the end of next year, I hope to qualify for battery replacement. If that doesn't work out, I'll probably wind up giving the car to charity.

-Karl

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm going to go out on a limb and estimate that you will lose bars at these Ah readings:

Cap -- drees ------ your
Bar -- guess ------ guess
12: -------------- 6x.xx
---------15.00%
11: - 55.25 ------- xx.xx
--------- 6.25%
10: - 52.00 ------- xx.xx
--------- 6.25%
9: - 48.75 -------- xx.xx
--------- 6.25%
8: - 45.50 -------- xx.xx
--------- 6.25%
7: - 42.25 -------- xx.xx
--------- 6.25%
6: - 39.00 -------- xx.xx

 

[DaveEV]

Drees: CAP% has been running from 81% to 79%, trending down as temp increases. 4.8 mpk today, 42.7 miles. Fairly stiff headwind on the way home; usually I get about 5.2 mpk. 80% charge now yields 65 to 66% charge. Still just one cap bar lost.

Ran a little below LBW again tonight.. 45 GIDs, 61 'GIDs. I like the ease of use and cost of the ELM327 hardware and Turbo3's software; I'm hoping that my low SOC data will help clarify the relationship between measured and simulated GIDs.

Thanks for the info - I think it will be helpful if we stick with Ah instead of % for capacity since it's possible to override the default "100%" capacity. That way we will always be comparing apples to apples.

Looks like you're right around 53 Ah - you are probably very close to losing your second bar, I'd expect it to go within a month with the rising temps. It'd be interesting to see how the latest software update changes the behavior of your car, but I know the dealer is a long trip for you.

For 2+ years of the brutal heat in Ridgecrest, your car isn't doing too bad, but that's probably because you do a great job of minimizing factors in your control that contribute to capacity loss.

 

[kolmstead]

Drees: 52.5 Ahr.

-karl

 

[myleaf]

I have been loosing bars in step with you.

But what I find odd is that I still have 10 bars, but I am at 69.4% capacity and 45.99 AHr
lower than your reading after you lost the 10th bar.

Heres my data.

 

[myleaf]

never mind, lost my 10th bar today.

I have been loosing bars in step with you.

But what I find odd is that I still have 10 bars, but I am at 69.4% capacity and 45.99 AHr
lower than your reading after you lost the 10th bar.

Heres my data.

 

[bradbissell]

I had an interesting thing occur this evening. The app reported a %SOC of 45% and the dash display on my 2013 showed 37%. Have other people seen this situation. Right now I'm not sure which value is correct. As another data point the 'GID % showed 49%.

Does %SOC not account for reserved battery?

 

[LEAFfan]

I had an interesting thing occur this evening. The app reported a %SOC of 45% and the dash display on my 2013 showed 37%. Have other people seen this situation. Right now I'm not sure which value is correct. As another data point the 'GID % showed 49%. Weird.

The LB App SoC% is supposed to be the actual, and the car's % gauge is what Nissan gives you...a little less so you recharge sooner and don't run out. Now, I just use 'Gids (Sim) because I know Turtle will be 8-12 'Gids. Mine Turtled at 8 while moving very slowly in a parking lot.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm puzzling over the readings from the pack in my new 2013 SL.

The car was delivered to a dealer here in So Cal around mid-May, and I took delivery on June 15 from my dealer, after the car was obtained from the original dealer in a dealer swap. In hindsight, I wish I'd opted to wait a few weeks to get one freshly delivered from the factory, but that's current under the bridge. I'm concerned that I have a LEAF that has been kept at full charge on a dealer lot for a month before delivery, and that the pack has suffered.

Here's my experience with the car, using an original Gidmeter and the ELM327/Android app, v25.

When I picked up the car, it was topping off at the dealer's L2. The charging lights were off and the car's dash SOC read 100%. The Gidmeter read 263 Gid, 93.5% Gid, 96.9% SOC, 396 Volts. The ELM read 60.89 AH, 91.91 CAP, 266 'Gids.
The cell pair histogram was completely red, indicating that shunts were on for all cell pairs. Voltage range was 11 mV, with an avg of 4.129 V. I was concerned, but I thought that with only 88 miles on the car and the shunts all on, that things were still needing to stabilize.

After about 30 miles of driving and the car sitting for a few hours, the ELM readings had increased to 61.62 AH and 93.02 CAP, and the display showed no shunts turned on.

I charged the car to 100% over night, with no stop timer set. I didn't record the ELM readings, but the Gidmeter showed 267 Gids, 95% Gids, 97.1% SOC, 395.5 V.

I drove 45 miles, after which the ELM app readings increased to 63.25 AH and 95.46 CAP, with most of the shunts on again.

An 80% charge gave me Gidmeter readings of 218 Gid, 77.5% Gid, 79.6 %SOC, 387.5 V. The ELM readings were essentially unchanged from the night before, as 63.25 AH and 95.52 CAP,

Since then, the ELM readings have stabilized or dropped a bit. Right now, the readings are 62.83 AH, 94.83 % CAP.

I'm guessing that any improvement in AH readings has now taken place, and that I'm now looking at dropping values with calendar or temperature changes, like everyone else is.

So do I have a crap battery pack, or what is the opinion of the brain trust?

Thanks

 

[LEAFfan]

I'm puzzling over the readings from the pack in my new 2013 SL.

The car was delivered to a dealer here in So Cal around mid-May, and I took delivery on June 15 from my dealer, after the car was obtained from the original dealer in a dealer swap. In hindsight, I wish I'd opted to wait a few weeks to get one freshly delivered from the factory, but that's current under the bridge. I'm concerned that I have a LEAF that has been kept at full charge on a dealer lot for a month before delivery, and that the pack has suffered.

Here's my experience with the car, using an original Gidmeter and the ELM327/Android app, v25.

When I picked up the car, it was topping off at the dealer's L2. The charging lights were off and the car's dash SOC read 100%. The Gidmeter read 263 Gid, 93.5% Gid, 96.9% SOC, 396 Volts. The ELM read 60.89 AH, 91.91 CAP, 266 'Gids.
The cell pair histogram was completely red, indicating that shunts were on for all cell pairs. Voltage range was 11 mV, with an avg of 4.129 V. I was concerned, but I thought that with only 88 miles on the car and the shunts all on, that things were still needing to stabilize.

After about 30 miles of driving and the car sitting for a few hours, the ELM readings had increased to 61.62 AH and 93.02 CAP, and the display showed no shunts turned on.

I charged the car to 100% over night, with no stop timer set. I didn't record the ELM readings, but the Gidmeter showed 267 Gids, 95% Gids, 97.1% SOC, 395.5 V.

I drove 45 miles, after which the ELM app readings increased to 63.25 AH and 95.46 CAP, with most of the shunts on again.

An 80% charge gave me Gidmeter readings of 218 Gid, 77.5% Gid, 79.6 %SOC, 387.5 V. The ELM readings were essentially unchanged from the night before, as 63.25 AH and 95.52 CAP,

Since then, the ELM readings have stabilized or dropped a bit. Right now, the readings are 62.83 AH, 94.83 % CAP.

I'm guessing that any improvement in AH readings has now taken place, and that I'm now looking at dropping values with calendar or temperature changes, like everyone else is.

So do I have a crap battery pack, or what is the opinion of the brain trust?

Thanks

I know you're not in Phoenix, but I haven't seen one 2013 LEAF here that has more capacity than yours. When I leased mine almost 4 months ago, it was already down at least 3% and a friend's was down 5% when he leased his a month later. Now mine is down at least 5% and I'm willing to bet his is even lower. Mine was at a dealer for only about one week and his was at the same dealer a month longer. I have a feeling they kept both of them at 100% charge too.

 

[turbo2ltr]

I had an interesting thing occur this evening. The app reported a %SOC of 45% and the dash display on my 2013 showed 37%. Have other people seen this situation. Right now I'm not sure which value is correct. As another data point the 'GID % showed 49%.

Does %SOC not account for reserved battery?

"A man with two watches is never quite sure what time it is."

 

[KJD]

Last night was a lot cooler than it has been in a week, so I made sure to park the car outside the garage to try cool the pack as much as possible.

This morning before work OAT was 52 and the pack temp was between 65 and 68f.

This was down from low 80's last night before parking the car, but not as low as I had hoped for. It seems that the low overnight temps do cool the pack some, but I have never seen pack temp as low as overnight low temp here.

In SLC the average temps seem to vary 25 to 30 degrees between daily highs and lows. The pack in my car trends towards 10 or 12 degrees above the low OAT for the day. In other words a little less than halfway between the daily high and daily low OAT.

Has anyone found a good way to minimize pack temps and still drive the car every day ?

 

[edatoakrun]

Last night was a lot cooler than it has been in a week, so I made sure to park the car outside the garage to try cool the pack as much as possible...

Has anyone found a good way to minimize pack temps and still drive the car every day ?

I think the only practical solution is implied by your question.


You can't control the temperature when you drive, except by changing your schedule, which is probably impractical.

But you maybe able to control the temperature where you park, which has a far greater effect on you pack's average temperature.

In your location, I wouldn't think pack temperature would be a major concern.

Do you see the app report very high pack temps for long periods of time, or ever see 7 temp bars on the dash?

 

[nogajim]

Lost my first capacity bar at 55.62 Ahr. (83.95% CAP with default setting).