Do It Yourself: 240v from two 120v sources

[ebill3]

When Ingineer/Phil does the EVSE mod, he can do it for 12A or 16A.
(There is an "extra charge" for 16A... pun intended)

If you are using a "QUICK240" type device, it would probably be best to use the 12A version (in most cases), to avoid possibly overloading any 15A circuits you may encounter.

Well, that is exactly what I did. My apartment is only about 15 years old, and all wiring and sockets are in good shape, but it is mostly 14 ga and I do not have dedicated circuits.

Everything stays cool and I sleep well, but I did have to convince the folks at EVSE Upgrade that I really did not want the 16 Amp upgrade.

 

[garygid]

Well, the reviewer didn't get 120 volts (half of 240) right either!

 

[QueenBee]

Well, the reviewer didn't get 120 volts (half of 240) right either!

To be fair the Quick220 call it Quick220 from two 110 outlets although I guess at least they are consistent in 110/220 vs. her 110/240.

 

[Volusiano]

That's just generalization that implies that all converters are unsafe.

You are being picky

How can one be picky when one is quoting somebody verbatim? I'm not mincing words here. I'm quoting her directly as is.

Let me quote her again. She said in her article: "A bridging converter on the other hand, isn’t designed to supply the high currents that electric car charging stations require for long periods of time."

Now take the Quick220. They make 2 models: a 15A 3450W model, and a 20A 4600W model.

If you do your EVSE upgrade for 12A because you have 15A 120V outlets in your home, then either of these Quick220 models should be safe.

If you upgrade your EVSE for 16A because you have 20A 120V outlets in your home, then buy the 20A 4600W Quick220 model and it will be safe.

So how is the Quick220 (a bridging converter), "NOT designed to supply the high currents that EVSE required for long periods of time" like she claims?

 

[QueenBee]

So how is the Quick220 (a bridging converter), "NOT designed to supply the high currents that EVSE required for long periods of time" like she claims?

Just for reference and to make it painfully obvious that she isn't thinking logically when she says that statement.

15 Amp Model:
Model A220-15D: 15A max. at 80% on, 20% off (time), 3 hr. max. cycle; 12A max. continuous
Models A220-20 (all): 20A max. at 80% on, 20% off (time), 3 hr. max. cycle; 16A max. continuous

20 Amp Model:
Models A220-20 (all): 20A max. at 80% on, 20% off (time), 3 hr. max. cycle; 16A max. continuous
Model A220-20 (all): 4600 watts continuous; 22,000 watts peak, typical at 230 volts.

ENVIRONMENT: 35 to 95 degrees F, 85% relative humidity, max., non-condensing.

 

[Ingineer]

We have lots of customers using the "Quick220" device daily to charge their cars with no problems. Or course It's always prudent to check the condition of your electrical equipment before using it for high power appliances, but Nikki always seems to label everything as defacto dangerous.

Note that she totalled her own Prius by installing an extra battery pack in a very unsafe manner and causing the pack to explode and catch fire. I think it's made her paranoid about all electrical devices now. Obviously she is not a very qualified engineer.

It's a shame she insists on spreading FUD every chance she gets.

-Phil

 

[mwalsh]

but Nikki always seems to label everything as defacto dangerous.

It's a shame she insists on spreading FUD every chance she gets.

-Phil

No idea how she got the gig at GCR, but her "reporting" REALLY bugs me. Plus, I'm pretty sure my criticisms of her got me a ban from being able to post there.

 

[QueenBee]

No idea how she got the gig at GCR, but her "reporting" REALLY bugs me. Plus, I'm pretty sure my criticisms of her got me a ban from being able to post there.

Is it really reporting when the story consists of something a friend heard from someone else and includes "facts" that aren't actually true and that you don't truly understand the topic matter?

 

[mwalsh]

Is it really reporting when the story consists of something a friend heard from someone else and includes "facts" that aren't actually true and that you don't truly understand the topic matter?

That's why I threw quotes around reporting. I meant it in the snarkiest of ways.

 

[Luft]

Can someone elaborate on why you'd want the 120v switch? I must be missing something. Seems to me if you want 120v, just don't use this device at all...

Well, I use it for testing. There are a lot of possible uses, one is that it can be used on only one outlet in 120v mode, so it allows the same unit to double as a 8 foot long 120v adapter in the event you can't find 2 non GFCI circuits.

Scenario: You get your "Easy240" out, search for plugs, but cannot locate 2 on opposing circuits, so you simply throw the switch to 120v and not have to deal with another trip to the trunk to retrieve the 120v adapter.

Another: You are plugged into 2 circuits in your kitchen, but your wife wants to make you some toast and cord #2 is sharing the outlet with the toaster. Rather than unplug your car completely, she can simply switch the toggle over and the car will continue charging on 120v while your toast is being made. Then when she is done, she can kick it back to 240v. The car will never stop charging, and you won't have to go reset anything.

-Phil

Ummm... What would happen if my Wife plugged the toaster in without first flipping the switch? Is the concern here too much current. I mean the toaster wouldn't see 240 volts would it? :shock:

 

[ebill3]

Can someone elaborate on why you'd want the 120v switch? I must be missing something. Seems to me if you want 120v, just don't use this device at all...

Well, I use it for testing. There are a lot of possible uses, one is that it can be used on only one outlet in 120v mode, so it allows the same unit to double as a 8 foot long 120v adapter in the event you can't find 2 non GFCI circuits.

Scenario: You get your "Easy240" out, search for plugs, but cannot locate 2 on opposing circuits, so you simply throw the switch to 120v and not have to deal with another trip to the trunk to retrieve the 120v adapter.

Another: You are plugged into 2 circuits in your kitchen, but your wife wants to make you some toast and cord #2 is sharing the outlet with the toaster. Rather than unplug your car completely, she can simply switch the toggle over and the car will continue charging on 120v while your toast is being made. Then when she is done, she can kick it back to 240v. The car will never stop charging, and you won't have to go reset anything.

-Phil

Ummm... What would happen if my Wife plugged the toaster in without first flipping the switch? Is the concern here too much current. I mean the toaster wouldn't see 240 volts would it? :shock:

No, the toaster would not see 240 volts, and hopefully the breaker for that circuit would trip. Has happened here - wife plugged an iron into one of the circuits I use. POP. Normally, just a lamp or two is using that circuit while charging.

 

[MikeD]

Now that there is the "16a/120v-20a/240v" EVSEUpgrade option (aka Rev 3?), what do people here think about the wisdom of using that EVSE with a "Quick200" device, since one could easily inadvertently try to draw 20a (continuously, in the NEC sense) through 12 AWG or even 14 AWG wires (even though the max 120v amp EVSE setting is set at 12a -- or whatever)?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Now that there is the "16a/120v-20a/240v" EVSEUpgrade option (aka Rev 3?), what do people here think about the wisdom of using that EVSE with a "Quick200" device, since one could easily inadvertently try to draw 20a (continuously, in the NEC sense) through 12 AWG or even 14 AWG wires (even though the max 120v amp EVSE setting is set at 12a -- or whatever)?

The "20 amp upgrade" to the 2013 Nissan LEAF / Panasonic portable EVSE is entirely selectable. So, just set it to 12 amps when necessary.

My Tesla UMC (portable EVSE) can draw up to 40 amps. I'd recommend not pulling that much power, but instead setting the power to 12 amps on any Tesla car. Or if you are using this with a LEAF, use the appropriate adapter that pulls 12 amps.

I have both of the above for my Rav4 EV, and a homemade "Quick 240", plus a step up transformer for those pesky 208 volt sites so that I can have 250 volts.

 

[fooljoe]

Using the upgraded EVSE on a quick220 connected to 15 amp circuits is no different than plugging it in to any 240v 15 amp circuit. The whole point of the programmable capability is that you can set a lower amperage for just such a scenario.

Of course there's a risk of someone who doesn't know what he's doing using it at too high a current for the circuit(s) it's plugged into, but that same risk applies to any EVSE with a plug on it, and even more so if the EVSE is non-programmable. And usually all that would happen in such a case is that a breaker would trip.

 

[ebill3]

Now that there is the "16a/120v-20a/240v" EVSEUpgrade option (aka Rev 3?), what do people here think about the wisdom of using that EVSE with a "Quick200" device, since one could easily inadvertently try to draw 20a (continuously, in the NEC sense) through 12 AWG or even 14 AWG wires (even though the max 120v amp EVSE setting is set at 12a -- or whatever)?

The "20 amp upgrade" to the 2013 Nissan LEAF / Panasonic portable EVSE is entirely selectable. So, just set it to 12 amps when necessary.

My Tesla UMC (portable EVSE) can draw up to 40 amps. I'd recommend not pulling that much power, but instead setting the power to 12 amps on any Tesla car. Or if you are using this with a LEAF, use the appropriate adapter that pulls 12 amps.

My "normal" method of charging both the Tesla and the LEAF is a homebrew quick 240 at 12 Amps. Of course, dialing down the Tesla.

When I want a "quick" charge for the Tesla, I connect to the kitchen stove outlet for a whopping 32 Amps. :lol: Sometimes I forget to dial back to 12 when using the quick 240, and it takes a matter of seconds for the breaker to pop.

Apartment renting with two EVs is a challange.

 

[Ingineer]

Ummm... What would happen if my Wife plugged the toaster in without first flipping the switch? Is the concern here too much current. I mean the toaster wouldn't see 240 volts would it? :shock:

You can't plug a toaster into an L6-20 outlet. This is why I'm absolutely adamant that you never use a 120V outlet to carry 240V in any scenario. I always ensure that it's the reverse; we use an L6-20 or L6-30 on the EVSE so that it will only fit into a 240V plug, then provide an adapter from a standard 120V outlet to the L6-20. The only way you could mess this up is to deliberately install an L6-20 on your toaster, which would be a bad idea.

-Phil

 

[MikeD]

Can anyone say what is the likely result if one inadvertently draws 15 or 16 amps from a 15a dedicated circuit (or even 20 amps from a 20a circuit) overnight (say 8 hours), and maybe does this frequently over a period of say a year? Let's assume the wiring is new 14 AWG (or 12 AWG) respectively.

Wouldn't you rather sleep more soundly by not worrying that you may be degrading your wiring insulation, etc to save a few dollars?

 

[TonyWilliams]

You will pop the breaker and current flow will stop. No wiring damage.

 

[fooljoe]

Can anyone say what is the likely result if one inadvertently draws 15 or 16 amps from a 15a dedicated circuit (or even 20 amps from a 20a circuit) overnight (say 8 hours), and maybe does this frequently over a period of say a year? Let's assume the wiring is new 14 AWG (or 12 AWG) respectively.

Wouldn't you rather sleep more soundly by not worrying that you may be degrading your wiring insulation, etc to save a few dollars?

I'm not sure what type of scenario you're describing here. How would one do this both frequently and inadvertently?

If you're using a quick220 frequently (like at home), you most likely know what you're doing and what circuits you're charging on and will set your EVSE appropriately to draw 12a on 15a circuits or 16a on 20a circuits.

If you're using it occasionally, you may inadvertently draw 16a from 15a circuits, in which case the breaker may pop (actually it probably won't, at least not until after a few hours) but the wiring should still hold up fine unless it was already in bad shape. Before having a programmable EVSE like EVSEupgrade now offers, I was forced into this scenario a few times as my Rev2 2011 EVSE would only run at 16a@240v. I popped a couple breakers but otherwise everything was fine, but I would've preferred to have been able to dial it down to 12a. This is why I said before that the new programmable EVSEs, despite the potential 20a capability, make using a quick220 less risky, if anything.

You'll sleep soundly either way I'd presume. If you know what you're doing, you won't be charging as you've described so you'll be just fine. If you don't know what you're doing, you won't know any better so you'll sleep just fine anyway!

 

[QueenBee]

Can anyone say what is the likely result if one inadvertently draws 15 or 16 amps from a 15a dedicated circuit (or even 20 amps from a 20a circuit) overnight (say 8 hours), and maybe does this frequently over a period of say a year? Let's assume the wiring is new 14 AWG (or 12 AWG) respectively.

Wouldn't you rather sleep more soundly by not worrying that you may be degrading your wiring insulation, etc to save a few dollars?

I sleep pretty well knowing that my wiring is protected by the proper size breakers, smoke detectors wired together, and AFCI breakers.

How about you get to the point of your question instead of asking passive aggressively? In any case I am not sure how using the Quick220 makes the issue any different than without it.