Do you want to pitch in and buy a LEAF battery?

[cwerdna]

8) On the downside, purchasing a battery after less than two years ownership also sends the message that this level of degradation should be the owner's responsibility, regardless of the claims made by Nissan.

Maybe not. Toyota forced owners to buy brand-new engines because Toyota claimed they were not responsible (even though the engines died after only 20-40,000 miles). The U.S. government overruled Toyota's decision and forced them to issue refunds to all owners that had replaced the part.

Source? When was this happening? Is this in reference to the infamous Toyota oil sludging issue on certain engines?

Toyota's powertrain warranty has been 5 years/60K miles for a long time, and that includes the engine. IIRC, our 91 Camry had the 5/60K powertrain warranty.

 

[garygid]

That $5000 is for the battery assembly only, without any modules, right?

Then, one must buy the 48 modules at how much each?

Would somebody "replacing" their old battery pack buy a whole new
assembly and modules, or just 48 new modules to put into their old pack?

 

[thankyouOB]

it was an amazing revelation--how much they pocketed on the repair.

You should contact the insurance company.. a letter is fine.

Insurance company was fine with it.
Storage?
Yes, for 2-3 weeks.

 

[EVDRIVER]

That $5000 is for the battery assembly only, without any modules, right?

Then, one must buy the 48 modules at how much each?

Would somebody "replacing" their old battery pack buy a whole new
assembly and modules, or just 48 new modules to put into their old pack?

Gary read the thread, that is for a complete assembled pack with modules and case fully assembled. Complete.

 

[theaveng]

The U.S. government overruled Toyota's decision and forced them to issue refunds to all owners that had replaced the part.

Is this in reference to the infamous Toyota oil sludging issue on certain engines? oyota's powertrain warranty has been 5 years/60K miles for a long time, and that includes the engine.

Yeah but they denied the warranty for tens of thousands of customers. Toyota's response was "the customer didn't do oil changes, so we are not paying to replace their engines". This was even in cases where the customer changed oil at the dealer & therefore had proof the engine was maintained but it still died after only 20-40,000 miles. It took almost ten years for the government to find in favor of the customers & force Toyota to honor its warranty across the affected years (1998 to 2007).

And yes I know you're going to defend Toyota because you're a fanboy or whatever, but at the end of the day they are a corporation, and no different than any other corporation (GM, Microsoft, Foxconn, etc). Even Honda which made my car has been a bit of an Ahole. They denied replacement of insight batteries even when they died before the 100,000 mile warranty was expired. All these corporations care about is their bottom line & inflated stock prices, even if it costs the customer a loss.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

$5k is easy enough to stomach. I'd even consider buying this car out at lease end if I felt I could get, say, 7-8 years out of the pack (course, I don't live in AZ) and then another $5k to replace. I know pack prices should come down, but then if the $5k is subsidized heavily who knows what the real cost is.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

$5k is easy enough to stomach. I'd even consider buying this car out at lease end if I felt I could get, say, 7-8 years out of the pack (course, I don't live in AZ) and then another $5k to replace. I know pack prices should come down, but then if the $5k is subsidized heavily who knows what the real cost is.

not heavily subsidized. remember this is exchange price. a used pack could easily be worth 50% or more of a new pack. so say exchange pack is worth $2500 credit, real pack exchange price is 7500-2500= the 5000 right

BUT

if selling used pack to Nissan, expect to get 1200-1500 (all these prices are just speculation)

or if buying a pack outright, pay $10,000. if I was Nissan, that is how i would handle it.

it encourages LEAF sales and shows so customer loyalty benefits

 

[EVDRIVER]

$5k is easy enough to stomach. I'd even consider buying this car out at lease end if I felt I could get, say, 7-8 years out of the pack (course, I don't live in AZ) and then another $5k to replace. I know pack prices should come down, but then if the $5k is subsidized heavily who knows what the real cost is.

not heavily subsidized. remember this is exchange price. a used pack could easily be worth 50% or more of a new pack. so say exchange pack is worth $2500 credit, real pack exchange price is 7500-2500= the 5000 right

BUT

if selling used pack to Nissan, expect to get 1200-1500 (all these prices are just speculation)

or if buying a pack outright, pay $10,000. if I was Nissan, that is how i would handle it.

it encourages LEAF sales and shows so customer loyalty benefits

Who said it was an exchange price?

 

[ydnas7]

name me one listed company (NYSE, NASDAQ, Tokyo) that sells a 400V power pack to end users.

or how many auto companies willing to sell their automotive I4 / V6?

just for liability alone, i would expect this to be an exchange program.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I thought it was mentioned that this was an exchange price but that could have been speculation I guess

 

[FairwoodRed]

name me one listed company (NYSE, NASDAQ, Tokyo) that sells a 400V power pack to end users.

or how many auto companies willing to sell their automotive I4 / V6?

just for liability alone, i would expect this to be an exchange program.

I've bought complete engines outright (no exchange of any kind) from GM and a complete tranny from Mazda. Many car companies have Performance divisions that will sell you go-faster parts with no core charges (so you can put the normal ones back in when you break the go-fast ones). The worst that I've ever seen it is that they require a VIN place an order.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I thought it was mentioned that this was an exchange price but that could have been speculation I guess

Yes, speculation like most of the forum :lol:

 

[garygid]

In fact it is about $5K for an entire pack, that is not modules but the entire pack assembly. The info is accurate. Of course this does not include labor.

Sorry, I misunderstood your phrase "that is not modules" to mean that it is
JUST the Pack assembly and NOT the modules. My "oops".

 

[RickS]

I haven't been checking this forum too much lately (although it's about time Nissan gets back to us with an answer). I work at a lithium battery seller and distributor, I'm the engineer at work and am responsible for warranty claim testing and reporting and have access to a computer programmable battery tester. I'm limited to 5 volts per channel at 50A charge/discharge and we know what the battery is supposed to do, we know approximately what the Ah capacity is. I'd thought that it would be very interesting to buy a module and run it on my tester and see what it actually does, then run a comparison to a used degraded module. I have access to this highly specialized machine, it's probably not quite meant for this type of cell (we sell prismatic LiFeMnPO4 cells) but I could definitely get some data.

What I couldn't unfortunately do is run continuous cycles on it, I do need it for work. I also have a connection for Nissan parts. Does anyone have a part number for a cell module? I'm betting that the parts counter guys can't just order one and also being a shipping expert on lithium batteries I can tell you it's much much easier and cheaper to ship a big pack in a car rather than ship just a module or two around.... especially if it is by air.

 

[jlsoaz]

You'll get no pizza from me, young man. Remember, we've talked at length, and I know your level of knowledge in these matters. On the flip side, I also know your snarky sense of humor, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate fact from snark when it comes to your posts.

So if you know that Nissan is retailing the packs at $5k, I'll take your word for it. Particularly as you've now proffered the additional information that they're taking a hit on each one. THEN $5k starts to make sense.

I know that the retail price is $5K from a good source that bought one, I do not know if Nissan makes that artificially low as I only offer that as a thought. The LEAF is a very expensive car for what it is so It is no surprise the cost of the car may carry the weight of making replacement packs affordable. Personally I see it as good news and hope that in a few years the cost is far less.

There is info on the GM Volt that a retail p;rice for a replacement battery is $3k. I am hard pressed for time, but it should not be difficult to find the link. My point is only that if the retail price mentioned by one purchaser for a Leaf battery is $5k, then this is plausible if some of the same pricing scale is going on as with the GM vehicle.

However, I think we should be a bit careful about trying to figure out if this is plausible based on mfg cost since GM might be putting the retail price at an artificially low level (not covering their mfg cost) out of confidence in the product and to encourage vehicle sales and out of foresight toward mfg cost down the road. For Nissan the issues are somewhat different, since they have not protected the battery nearly as well, but the $3k and $5k prices we've heard are somewhere in the ballpark of being proportional (in a very rough way) of the 16 kWh and 24 kWh (I think it was) we've heard for the batteries (disregarding details such as the different prices and mfg costs for PHEV batteries (higher) and the fact that both prices are below known costs in the industry at present (i.e.: the industry is not yet down to the approx. $200 per kWh level for an entire high-quality pack).

There was a knowledgeable post regarding tracking the industry prices based on amp-hours rather than kWh. I have never quite understood whether and how it is approachable from that metric, ... wish I understood that one better.