Electric bill cost for the leaf?

[planet4ever]

Another way is to use the car charging timers at 80% and carwings email messages for charging stopped. The LEAF charges to 10 bars (80%) and then stops and sends an email message with the time the charging stopped. By setting a timer to start at the same time each night, you can then use the stopped time to calculate the minutes of charging and use 3800 watts as the input power to the LEAF's charging system. This will provide a means to implement the power from wall to wheels with no extra instrumentation.

That may provide a reasonable approximation, but I wouldn't trust it more than +/-10%. If the car pulls 16A at 240v, that's 3840 watts. The owner's manual actually says it can pull up to 18A, your house voltage may be above or below 240v, and the charger may or may not compensate for that by pulling more or less than 16A, you may have noticeable voltage drop in your wiring under continuous heavy load, and the BMS may decide to reduce the charge rate before you get to 80% due to battery temperature.

Ray

 

[Nekota]

That may provide a reasonable approximation, but I wouldn't trust it more than +/-10%. If the car pulls 16A at 240v, that's 3840 watts. The owner's manual actually says it can pull up to 18A, your house voltage may be above or below 240v, and the charger may or may not compensate for that by pulling more or less than 16A, you may have noticeable voltage drop in your wiring under continuous heavy load, and the BMS may decide to reduce the charge rate before you get to 80% due to battery temperature.

Ray

The reason the current increases is to compensate for voltage change. The battery charging system always pulls 3800 to 3900 watts even when plugged into a 208 VAC. I think your 20% range is much too high and I would expect the design tolerance in the LEAF to be more like a 5% range.

 

[Boomer23]

Thanks Ed.
Hey can you explain how folks are getting the wall to wheels power use metrics? Is it enabled by a special program out West, that I won't leverage here in Georgia? I won't have any metering specific to the power sent from the unit, through the 18' cable and into the car. Because of that, I'm planning to just measure it based on whatever the Leaf tells me I have used in terms of electricity and adding 15% to it for line loss/etc. Sound about right?

Just had my delivery date move out to week of January 3 (from Dec 23), which is a bummer due to desire to get tax credit into 2011. Might search for an orphan to cure that problem.

Some of us have installed a device called "TED" (The Energy Detective) http://www.theenergydetective.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in our power panels to monitor the power used to charge the car. I have the TED 5003 model that monitors three power use quantities, the power used to charge the car, the power generated by my home solar panels, and the total power used by my household. Your 85% estimate is about right. For my most recent month, I calculate that the in-car miles/kWh represents 83.2% of the power that is actually used from my power panel to charge the car (meaning that the power loss in the charging process is about 16.8%.). This is with the Aerovironment EVSE.

My actual figures for November are:
Miles/kWh measured at the wall: 3.18
Miles/kWh reported by LEAF main dashboard: 3.82 (averaged from daily readings, zeroed after each day's driving, weighted average calculation. Note that the readings from the LCD "nav" screen are usually 0.1 mi/kWh higher, which is typical for all LEAFs I've heard about.)

 

[OrientExpress]

OK, For November, the electricity usage costs for what it takes to run our Nissan Leaf electric car are in.

It cost us about $55 to go 1,235 miles or $0.04475/mile! We used about 510 Kw and are on the PG&E 9A off-peak tiered rate.

 

[abasile]

It cost us about $55 to go 1,235 miles or $0.01875/mile!

Are you sure that's correct? $55 divided by 1235 is 4.4 cents/mile. (Still not that bad, though.)

 

[coqui]

Have had my Leaf less than one month but I have started an Excel spreadsheet on this to keep track. Early indication is WAY less than a gasoline car like less than 1/4 cost of my Prius! Will let everyone know in a few months how this is coming along...can I post an Excel sheet on here?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Have had my Leaf less than one month but I have started an Excel spreadsheet on this to keep track. Early indication is WAY less than a gasoline car like less than 1/4 cost of my Prius! Will let everyone know in a few months how this is coming along...can I post an Excel sheet on here?

just what i have done. read my signature for a real life comparison of cost between a Prius where 90% of its driving is a 64 mile RT commute. so no short trips, mostly no inefficient driving scenarios (unless she is running late!) and so on

keep in mind; my reference is "fuel" costs only. the Prius has much higher maintenance costs including synthetic oil changes every 10,000 miles plus more air filters to change.

in WA State, our pollen levels are astronomical due to Conifers only having the wind to pollinate. bees are no help here. so engine and cabin air filters its recommended they be changed twice a year. the pollen is too sticky to just blow them out.

now, i rinse the cabin filter with water and air dry it and replace once a year. havent done that with the Leaf yet so dont know the cost but the change on the Prius DIY price is $30 for the pair

 

[edatoakrun]

I just recieved my first all "winter" PG&E E9A bill, for the month ending on 12/15.

I'm still on a "dumb" TOU meter, here in Shasta County, And PG&E (apparently) can only manage to send me an itemized bill, on paper.

Exactly $28.00 for 368 kWh (264 of it off-peak) = $21.54, + $6.35 service fee, and $0.11 tax.

Yes, that's for both my home and my LEAF, which I drove about 600 miles, on my meter.

I estimate I got between 3.6 and 3.8 m/kWh from the wall, about 4.2 m/kWh reported by CW.

 

[Stanton]

Based on CarWings data for the month of November (I don't keep track of anything else), I used 211 kW to drive 978 miles, which comes out to about 4.6 m/kW. Since I pay 9.5 cents/kW here in Dallas, it cost me about $20 to power my Leaf for a month. Even if you throw in another 15% loss due to charging inefficiencies, it still costs me well under $25/month to drive my Leaf. However, the most amazing statistic to me is: the month BEFORE I got my Leaf I spent almost $350 on gas (my other 2 cars are a Mini Cooper and Ford Expedition--two ends of the fuel economy spectrum), and last month I spent about $125 on gas. Even adding in the cost of electricity for my Leaf, my gas bill dropped by more than half!

That is quite a savings. Has the Leaf replaced more of the Expedition miles?

Yes (sorry it took so long to respond). My strategy from the beginning was: shift as many miles AWAY from the Expedition as possible, and I'm certainly seeing the benefits. While one of my sons driving (the Mini) to school has helped, the surprise has been how much we take the Leaf INSTEAD OF the Expedition on the weekends (since the Leaf can comfortably seat 4). I still put more miles on the Leaf than any other car during the week (expected because I work), and we always have the Expedition for that (very) occasional long road trip.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

same here. the Leaf covers 60% of our driving in summer, about 35% during winter. SO does not like driving Leaf in Winter due to reduced range (she could still make it and has a dozen times but it does not allow her to make up time when running behind; a daily occurrence) and her commute (64 miles RT) trumps mine (11.8 miles) we both work 4 10 hour shifts to reduce our driving, but right now that is not working because she (who is waaay poorer than i am despite having a higher income) is picking up extra shifts to pay her Xmas expenses.

as for me? i finished 95% of my Xmas shopping usually by the first week of Nov. my credit cards are not max'd out nor do i pay interest on them. she is not quite so organized. as far as helping her? not an option as i am not allowed to be privy to her finances mostly because she hates it when i give her financial advice.

other than that, we split the cost of everything including gas, electricity, car insurance, etc. it works for me. i have money in the bank

 

[drmanny3]

We switched over to a TOU (Time of Use) rate with Southern Cal Edison. So our supper off peak rate is about $0.10 kwh. Prior to changing to the TOU we were averaging about $325 for the year for all our electricity use. This year we added the leaf (May 2011) and average about 350 kwhs per month during the supper off peak. However, because of the reduced rate associated with the supper off peak and the fact that we get credit for producing during the on peak > $0.50 kwh we are going to end up spending about $200 for the year for all our electricity. So in a way we are charging our Leaf for free. That is a pretty damn good deal. I think the electric car is finally here. It is a viable transportation device that will only get better.

 

[DougMarker]

I just paid my bill from PG&E for November. I drove 468 miles. My electric bill was $48 LESS than for the same month last year. The reason is that I switched over to a time-of-use meter, available to electric car owners in areas served by PG&E. With this meter there is a huge discount for electricity on weekdays from midnight to 7AM and most hours Sat and Sun. Highly recommended!

 

[qexx]

$0 - electricity in my garage is unmetered - paid for by HOA.

 

[LEAFer]

1 year, 15k miles, 2.5c/mile. c/kWh in summer is a little higher, but winter pre-heating during the on-peak morning period makes it average out to about the same. (Sacramento, CA area, SMUD.)

 

[kennyboy]

Since taking delivery of my Leaf on October 18, 2011...

I have driven a total of 4,700 miles and have spent a total of $18 on electricity.


Not ENTIRELY accurate, because I estimate my electricity cost to be around 2 cents per mile, or $20 per month for my typical 1000 miles of driving. But I am on the budget payment plan with my local utility where the cost of my bill is actually the cost of my most recent bill averaged with the previous eleven bills. That keeps the total from changing too drastically when the weather changes, or you buy an EV, etc.

So my first electric bill after I got the Leaf was $3 more than my normal bill. The next one was $6 more. The last one was $9 more.

So, I have driven 4,700 miles and only paid an extra $18 for electricity, so far.

I love this car!

 

[KJD]

We switched over to a TOU (Time of Use) rate with Southern Cal Edison. So our supper off peak rate is about $0.10 kwh. Prior to changing to the TOU we were averaging about $325 for the year for all our electricity use. This year we added the leaf (May 2011) and average about 350 kwhs per month during the supper off peak. However, because of the reduced rate associated with the supper off peak and the fact that we get credit for producing during the on peak > $0.50 kwh we are going to end up spending about $200 for the year for all our electricity. So in a way we are charging our Leaf for free. That is a pretty damn good deal. I think the electric car is finally here. It is a viable transportation device that will only get better.

Wow I want your TOU. Rocky Mtn Power is not nearly that generous. I looked at the TOU rates here and decided why bother. I still charge my car at night just because its good for the grid but if I had your rates I would be buying solar panels like crazy.

http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=pv_systems&id=1053&type=GT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TickTock]

SRP in AZ is even better. I am on the Easy-3 TOU plan and pay only ~$.075 per kwh all hours except 3-6pm weekdays (where it goes to ~$0.30). Car isn't even home during these hours. In six months, I drove 9023 miles for $170 or 1.9 cents/mile. (Although I didn't actually pay this much since 80% of this is actually provided by my solar).

 

[ksnogas2112]

Yes I'm new but if anyone is curious about Kansas City:

http://www.kcpl.com/Brochures/KSpricelist.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No TOU and coal energy mostly but relatively cheap @$.08/kWh summer.

 

[Rmasu]

In Hawaii we have some of the highest electric cost in the nation.
It actually doesn't make sense to own a leaf here even though I just put a deposit for one today!
Electricity rates here are .33 a kwh I drive 60 miles a day assuming about 4 miles per kw I figure it costs me 15 kw a day which is about 5 dollars to go 60 miles.
Gas in Hawaii regular is 4.50 a gallon if I bought a Prius that gets 50 miles a gallon I can drive 60 miles for about the same amount of money and no range issues. And a Prius is much cheaper than a leaf by about 10000 which equates to 2222 gallons and 111,111 miles! Someone correct my math if I'm wrong, with all that said the Prius can't touch the leaf in coolness and techyness no so I'm buying into it anyways. I'm leasing so we will see what the future brings.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In Hawaii we have some of the highest electric cost in the nation.
It actually doesn't make sense to own a leaf here even though I just put a deposit for one today!
Electricity rates here are .33 a kwh I drive 60 miles a day assuming about 4 miles per kw I figure it costs me 15 kw a day which is about 5 dollars to go 60 miles.
Gas in Hawaii regular is 4.50 a gallon if I bought a Prius that gets 50 miles a gallon I can drive 60 miles for about the same amount of money and no range issues. And a Prius is much cheaper than a leaf by about 10000 which equates to 2222 gallons and 111,111 miles! Someone correct my math if I'm wrong, with all that said the Prius can't touch the leaf in coolness and techyness no so I'm buying into it anyways. I'm leasing so we will see what the future brings.

i used to live in Hawaii so i know there is a dealer markup on every car sold there you need to be specific here because it is unlikely that a similarly equipped Prius (with NAV they are about $28-30,000 here) is $10,000 cheaper especially after a $7500 rebate on the Leaf which you can realize all of if you lease in case your tax situation will not allow you get all that

but this makes your difference a few thousand. in my case, there was no difference. my 2010 Prius (bought in 2009 which also had NO SALES TAX applied like my Leaf) had NAV, leather (no options to remove) and sunroof so it had a few more things than the Leaf was $28,900 but only that cheap because i got a $2500 discount for being part of an exclusive priority discount program. i was also first in the state to get a 2010 Prius (picked up may 17th, 2009) so the MSRP was actually $31,000+ now, if i were to itemize the leather, sunroof, etc to make the trim equal, i am guessing it would be right about what i paid.

my Leaf was $35,600 also no sales tax (the hybrid sales tax waiver expired June or Dec 2009...i forget which)

but take off the 7500 and my price was $28,100. so my "payback" time was zero.

since then? well due to a few trips out of state, the Prius has driven farther, but has cost us $1700 in gas. the Leaf?? i will have updated my signature with lifetime cost of electricity as of last weekend