Electrical line noise while charging at 240V

[padamson1]

I am glad that things got fixed. I too have a solar system with an inverter and my house lighting system uses the power lines to communicate (X-10 and UPB) which is very sensitive to noise. My programmed scene controllers would probably be non-functional when I charged (LEAF still on order).

Good to hear that Nissan was willing to measure the problem and had a fix!

 

[garygid]

Is there any way for an Owner to determine if their LEAF has the "noise-reducer" installed?

Can a dealer check if it is there?

I might not hear the noise while charging my car, but "hill" heard it when I charged at his location.

Although it does not seem critical right now, I would like to be sure my car will not "buzz-off" others who allow me to charge.

 

[DarkStar]

Is there any way for an Owner to determine if their LEAF has the "noise-reducer" installed?

Can a dealer check if it is there?

I might not hear the noise while charging my car, but "hill" heard it when I charged at his location.

Although it does not seem critical right now, I would like to be sure my car will not "buzz-off" others who allow me to charge.

For legal reasons when TSBs are issued, automotive manufacturers track the VIN numbers affected and if a certified dealership as "applied" that TSB to a particular VIN. Depending on the severity, they may request you bring your vehicle in, or they may automatically apply the TSB during a regular service interval.

 

[LEAFer]

Is there any way for an Owner to determine if their LEAF has the "noise-reducer" installed?

Can a dealer check if it is there?

I might not hear the noise while charging my car, but "hill" heard it when I charged at his location.

Although it does not seem critical right now, I would like to be sure my car will not "buzz-off" others who allow me to charge.

For legal reasons when TSBs are issued, automotive manufacturers track the VIN numbers affected and if a certified dealership as "applied" that TSB to a particular VIN. Depending on the severity, they may request you bring your vehicle in, or they may automatically apply the TSB during a regular service interval.

Correct. But the engineer at my place did not know what the affected VIN range is. We should be able to find that out soon. And then there will be that parts-shortage issue (a direct effect from the natural disasters in Japan).

 

[hill]

Anyway, I've made a few RF chokes in my day ... for amateur & commercial radios ... can it be that hard ... comparred to sitting on our hands, waiting on Nissan?

I'm an old-time radio guy too. I have some torroids from hell I'm planning to try... :lol:

ok well ... I'll see your "old-time radio guy" status, and raise you 42 years.

but yes - pleast post your findings . . . who knows. We may end up having progress before the good folks of Nissan engineering get back to us.

Is there any way for an Owner to determine if their LEAF has the "noise-reducer" installed? . . . . . . . snip

You mean, like having noise definitely indicates you're going to be on the TSB short list ?

 

[TomT]

Let's see... I got my First Class Radio Telephone license, with Radar Endorsement, 47 years ago... And yes, I WAS very young at the time. A LITTLE more recently, my Amateur Extra... :lol:

ok well ... I'll see your "old-time radio guy" status, and raise you 42 years.

 

[QueenBee]

Just got my leaf today and charging on the Blink charger is causing humming in my UPS (Or at least it's coming from that area of my desk. Other UPS on the other side of the house isn't doing it so it could just be isolated to this device. Once I do some more investigating is this something I should contact Nissan about or just develop a work around? So far this is the area I have heard the humming.. .

 

[TomT]

I decided to try some industrial strength toroids and filter capacitors on my Leaf this weekend to see what affect I could have on the EMI problem. I didn't want to take the front connector pins out and the toroids I had were not clam shell type, so I installed them on the power connector feeding the Blink. Fortunately, a very large junction box was used when the Blink was installed so I could make them fit in there with a number of turns around the toroids.

The result? In my case, the EMI problem is now completely gone. So, clearly the EMI filter in the Leaf is not sufficient and I suspect that their "fix" is simply a more effective filter or additional filters. Regardless, I plan to get the fix when the TSB comes out for it. You can't have too much filtering...

 

[gmuzhik]

Does anyone have Enphase solar inverters and have a problem charging their Leaf? Today, I tried charging my Leaf at 2:00PM here in San Diego and noticed that the envoy unit that communicates to the enphase micro inverters started reporting zero output at 2:20PM! My ammeter proved otherwise, fortunately. The charging unit must put a lot of noise on the power line to screw up the envoy's power line comms. I read on the forum somewhere that others were having power line noise problems with different symptoms.

 

[LEAFer]

Does anyone have Enphase solar inverters and have a problem charging their Leaf? Today, I tried charging my Leaf at 2:00PM here in San Diego and noticed that the envoy unit that communicates to the enphase micro inverters started reporting zero output at 2:20PM! My ammeter proved otherwise, fortunately. The charging unit must put a lot of noise on the power line to screw up the envoy's power line comms. I read on the forum somewhere that others were having power line noise problems with different symptoms.

I would report this issue to your dealer; they will get the local TSM (Technical Service Manager) involved. Obviously this symptom could mess up the (web-)accounting on your energy produced, but hopefully not cause anything more serious.

 

[DaveEV]

Does anyone have Enphase solar inverters and have a problem charging their Leaf? Today, I tried charging my Leaf at 2:00PM here in San Diego and noticed that the envoy unit that communicates to the enphase micro inverters started reporting zero output at 2:20PM! My ammeter proved otherwise, fortunately. The charging unit must put a lot of noise on the power line to screw up the envoy's power line comms. I read on the forum somewhere that others were having power line noise problems with different symptoms.

I've never noticed. But my inverters stopped reporting yesterday morning (Envoy is located a long ways from the main panel, comms check reveals no signal so actually surprised it worked at all!) so I moved it into the garage next to the Blink EVSE with a wireless bridge for Internet connectivity for now. Get 4 bars on the Envoy comms check there.

The Envoy seems to be rather sensitive to location - even things like plugging in a power strip into the same outlet it's plugged in to can make or break the signal quality. With mine in my old location - if I plugged in my laptop into a separate outlet on the other side of the room (same circuit) it would cause the inverters to stop reporting. Or maybe that's because the signal level was already marginal in that location...

 

[QueenBee]

Does anyone have Enphase solar inverters and have a problem charging their Leaf?

Interesting, I'm looking at getting the new Enphase inverters. Does Enphase give any guidance on best practices for connecting it to the power lines? Please let us know if you guys figure out anything about this issue.

I'm currently waiting for my Blink assigned contractor to come back out and see what is going on my with line noise.

 

[DaveEV]

Does anyone have Enphase solar inverters and have a problem charging their Leaf?

Interesting, I'm looking at getting the new Enphase inverters. Does Enphase give any guidance on best practices for connecting it to the power lines? Please let us know if you guys figure out anything about this issue.

I'm currently waiting for my Blink assigned contractor to come back out and see what is going on my with line noise.

Yeah, put the Envoy as close to your inverters as possible. Typically this means putting it on a circuit near your main service panel where your PV breakers are. Some installers will even install a dedicated outlet for the Envoy and then either run ethernet to the Envoy, use a set of powerline-ethernet adapeters or a wifi bridge. It all depends on your situation, though - your installer should guide you through the most practical solution for your setup.

 

[hill]

Ok ... Nissan stopped by on Wednesday. Made an additional set of oscilloscope records with the unmodified LEAF demonstrating the noise. The noise, btw, is not a 60Hz hum, more like 4kHz plus harmonics. Then switched to their modified LEAF. More data recording.

Result: problem (basically) solved.

My house electrical system seems very sensitive to any outside influence, including GFCI and another EV charging making "noise" (bug zapper type). Even one of their measurement probes was not completely silent while recording off of a sub-panel, even with the modified LEAF. This contrasted to other test locations with the expected "silence".

So the most important bottom line: the modified LEAF has cured the original issue I discovered. And Nissan has figured out the TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) to implement an "upgrade" if it is necessary for any one particular owner's situation. However, be aware there are parts shortages, and so priority is given to current production, not already delivered LEAFs. Exact dates/VINs were not shared with me, but apparently LEAFs in production as of sometime in March already have the new "countermeasures" curing this noise issue. If I obtain VIN or Mfg Date info, I'll pass it along.

As Christopher commented, there are many variables, and many LEAF owners will never see a problem or symptoms. My situation was extreme and just the right amount of "wrong" circumstances conspired to make the issue very apparent here at home. But if you experience "noise" issues as discussed in this thread, bring it to the attention of your dealer's service manager.

Thank you, Nissan

Thank you? ... THANK YOU!?!? Fix? Then WHY is it ... over a HALF month later ... traveling all over bfe to try and find even ONE dealership that knows what the heck I'm talking about - when I mention line noise ... when I mention RF ... when ever I mention a supposed service bulletin? Any one have any idea when the fix is going to be "real" ? ... meaning the dealersip knows about it ... much less actually FIX the car without international rf engineers being involved? Hello . . . . . . (crickets)

:?
.

 

[TomT]

For something like this, I would expect it will take at least a few months for it to be tested, certified, readied for production and distribution, and a TSB created for it...

Fix? Then WHY is it ... over a HALF month later ... traveling all over bfe to try and find even ONE dealership that knows what the heck I'm talking about - when I mention line noise ... when I mention RF ... when ever I mention a supposed service bulletin? Any one have any idea when the fix is going to be "real" ? ... meaning the dealersip knows about it ... much less actually FIX the car without international rf engineers being involved? Hello . . . . . . (crickets)

 

[GeekEV]

... over a HALF month later ...

A whole half a month later? In the world of big business, two weeks is a mere blink of an eye. I can easily take that long just to schedule a sit down with the company legal team, etc...

 

[hill]

I suppose -

Just the same. Think of new Leafers going to the dealer ... describing symptoms to the tech - not accessing this board ... they're pretty much hosed then ... heading back home PO'd that their dealer pooh pooh's what the dealer is likely thinking of as a non issue. Yes, you're right ... now days companies take 2 weeks to contemplate changing brands of toilet paper in the restroom. Makes you wonder how we ever got to the Moon at all ... much less in a half decade.

 

[hill]

BUMP

Well? It's September now . . . 2 months since the last post.

Anybody? A fix please? Helo o o o o o o . . . . . . . . .


(crickets)

:?

Ok in part it's humor . . . I really am being patient. Really. No . . . really.

.

 

[QueenBee]

Well? It's September now . . . 2 months since the last post.

Anybody? A fix please? Helo o o o o o o . . . . . . . . .

Nothing new here, still making noise. My next step is to get around to making an appointment with the electrical contractor that installed the blink. Although that reminds me, I wanted to try my upgraded EVSE first to see if it was the blink or the car. Thanks for the bump

 

[Christopher]

Well? It's September now . . . 2 months since the last post.

Anybody? A fix please? Helo o o o o o o . . . . . . . . .


(crickets)

:?

Ok in part it's humor . . . I really am being patient. Really. No . . . really.

Heh, I'm afraid with your post you've lost the "who's the most patient" game. As the original poster, I'm still waiting here too but I have been contemplating trying to schedule service to get the part replaced -- and would they even know what I'm talking about? Might still try that, but plenty busy with other things in the meantime.

I will post if anything happens for me. If you're having trouble waiting, I suggest taking up a hobby! ;-)