EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Okay, I'm not as electrical-savvy as most on this thread, but I did just read through all 50 pages :!: and I gather that the Aerovironment deal is very likely to be overpriced. Opinions seem to vary on whether to go ahead with the assessment or save the 100 bucks and sign the waiver. Maybe by the time I get to order (December) the waiver option will be consistently working without extra calls to Nissan.

So the consensus seems to be to go with the Leviton device, assuming it becomes available in the next few months, and hire a local electrician. If I try this, and ask for an estimate, do I just tell him I want to be able to charge my Leaf and he'll know what I mean, or do I need to give him the specs of the Leviton device, the car, or what?

Thanks in advance for any dumbed-down info. ;)
 
StrangerTides said:
If I try this, and ask for an estimate, do I just tell him I want to be able to charge my Leaf and he'll know what I mean, or do I need to give him the specs of the Leviton device, the car, or what?
The specs of the Leviton device, in particular the receptacle required for the particular Leviton model you will be using: 6-20R, 6-30R, or 60-50R (if memory serves).

Cheers, Wayne
 
smkettner said:
I am hoping the $100 prepayment to AV will apply toward the product only
Not holding my breath
I have specifically asked AV about this, and when I spoke to them they said it only applies towards installation.
 
So the consensus seems to be to go with the Leviton device, assuming it becomes available in the next few months, and hire a local electrician. If I try this, and ask for an estimate, do I just tell him I want to be able to charge my Leaf and he'll know what I mean, or do I need to give him the specs of the Leviton device, the car, or what?

I would keep it open. I don't know the price for all the chargers, so whichever it available ( :D ), reliable, cheaper, easy to install and portable (in this order) will be my preference.
 
StrangerTides said:
Okay, I'm not as electrical-savvy as most on this thread, but I did just read through all 50 pages :!: and I gather that the Aerovironment deal is very likely to be overpriced.

I paid the $100, and it made ordering the car painless. That being said, things are changing so fast in the EVSE arena, I probably should have waited.

In my particular situation, the local power company hasn't decided which technology to use for the customer who is seeking to obtain lower utility bills using a special "electric car" charging rate.

So, they sent a committee of fellows out to my place to check out my (and Aerovironment's) proposed set up. They laughed at my $1300 "standard installation" fee and then proceeded to say that the electrician should hook up a meter box and they would provide a submeter for free. I have yet to get back to Aerovironment with this good news. I can only imagine what the answer will be.

But what the EVSE experts at the utility couldn't believe is that Aerovironment was only charging $721 bucks for the EVSE with a 25 foot cable. They indicated that the price was way, way cheap. But since they work for a government-owned utility company, what do they know?

What I will probably end up doing is running the conduit and meter box setup myself and terminate it with a NEMA plug and wait for the Leviton or if Aerovironment will sell me their charger, I'll hard wire it. Either way $1300 ain't happening. Of course, once the inspectors are gone, well, it's my garage now isn't it?
 
StrangerTides said:
Okay, I'm not as electrical-savvy as most on this thread, but I did just read through all 50 pages :!: and I gather that the Aerovironment deal is very likely to be overpriced. Opinions seem to vary on whether to go ahead with the assessment or save the 100 bucks and sign the waiver. Maybe by the time I get to order (December) the waiver option will be consistently working without extra calls to Nissan.

As a fellow December order, I can only say what my plan is and hope it helps. Basically, if I don't hear from AV / Nissan by 1 November, I will start calling local electricians and my utility and schedule and estimate for what it would cost to install a TOU sub-meter, second panel, a 30' run to the garage and the EVSE of my choosing (probably a Leviton with a 6-50R receptacle -- overkill yes, and even the 6-30R should be enough for the 6.6kW charger I hope to upgrade to as soon as available, but it's more future proof). I would then, assuming the quote isn't unreasonable, proceed to get the work done sometime before 31 December to get the EVSE tax credit in 2010 (before it expires). If the offer for an AV quote does come before I get my quote from a local electrician, I will probably schedule it well in the future and cancel it one I have my local quote, under the hopes that I can get a refund for the $99 since the assessment never takes place (wishful thinking!).

Anyway, I hope to have my EVSE in place before I even RAQ in December. Hope my story helps.
 
Thanks everyone for the info!

TimeHorse, see, this is where you guys lose me :lol: :

TimeHorse said:
...I will start calling local electricians and my utility and schedule and estimate for what it would cost to install a TOU sub-meter, second panel, a 30' run to the garage and the EVSE of my choosing (probably a Leviton with a 6-50R receptacle -- overkill yes, and even the 6-30R should be enough for the 6.6kW charger I hope to upgrade to as soon as available, but it's more future proof).
For me this is more questions than answers - why call the utility? To find out if they support this time-of-use business so we can pay less for off-peak electricity? Is that also the only reason for the sub-meter and second panel? Which Leviton makes sense under what conditions? Shouldn't the electrician know all this or do I need to educate myself so I can educate them? Is the 6.6kW what's called the "level 2" charger elsewhere on the forum? Is this the $700 "quick charge" option only available on the SL model?

Sorry if these are silly questions! :oops:
 
StrangerTides said:
For me this is more questions than answers - why call the utility? To find out if they support this time-of-use business so we can pay less for off-peak electricity? Is that also the only reason for the sub-meter and second panel? Which Leviton makes sense under what conditions? Shouldn't the electrician know all this or do I need to educate myself so I can educate them? Is the 6.6kW what's called the "level 2" charger elsewhere on the forum? Is this the $700 "quick charge" option only available on the SL model?

Good questions; sorry this wasn't clear; I agree it wasn't so let's fix that.

a) I want to take advantage of Dominion Virginia Power's Time Of Use (TOU) rates to charge my EV. The {rate} Schedule 1T is very attractive. However, I want my household to use the standard fixed-rate (seasonal) {rate} Schedule 1. Thus, I want to keep my existing electrical meter and add a sub meter (dual-meter) which measures the TOU usage.

FYI, I have already called my Utility and they said this was possible. Yours may be different, thus YMMV. The utility did not tell me if they would do any of the work to install the second meter, though, so I figured I'd call a local electrician to see what this would entail and the local contractor would better know how to deal with the utility and the county and the permitting and all the rest.

If I get a second meter, it is my understanding that I will need a second electrical panel.

b) Hopefully the electrician will know a bit about the subject, but there really isn't much to it and you may as well be informed. Basically, the LEAF comes with a 3.3kW charger. This means it can accept at most 30A (Ampères -- think of this a charge speed, a multiple of electrons per second) of electricity at 110V (Volts -- think of this as electrical force, how hard the wire is pushing on the electrons to move) of power (30A * 110V = 3.3kW) or 15A of electricity at 220V power (15A * 220V = 3.3kW). Now, 110V is what your standard U.S. electrical outlet runs at. But those plugs are typically only rated at 15A max. This, the 110V 15A charge is known as Level 1, or L1, charging.

Level 2, or L2, charging is any charge at twice the voltage of Level 1, i.e. 220V - 240V. As I just demonstrated, for Level 2 charging, the most current the LEAF can accept is 15A. However, this is a 220V circuit so it uses a different type of plug, typically a NEMA 6 or a NEMA 14 plug. The 14 plug (14-30R) is typically for most home dryers. The 14 refers to the shape of the plug (and specifically which includes a common wire, to get technical) as well as the 6 (which has no common wire) in 6-20R. The second number, before the R, is the maximum average current rating. For the dryer, a 14-30R, that's 30A. For the various Leviton devices, they have plugs which support 6-20R (20A), 6-30R (30A) and 6-50R (50A). Clearly, if the LEAF, with its 3.3kW charger could only accept at most 15A of current, the 6-20R Leviton unit should be quite sufficient to all your charging needs.

But I personally want my LEAF to have a 6.6kW charger. Mark Perry has said that this will be an available after-market upgrade on the LEAF (most recently on NPR's Science Friday about a month ago). I plan to get this upgrade when it becomes available. That means I need to have my Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (EVSE, e.g. the Leviton unit) to support at least 30A charging. The 6-30R unit should be enough for this in principle, and in fact, there is some rounding off and efficiency loss that I've glossed over that means the 6-30R is actually a pretty good fit for 6.6kW charging. However, if the price is reasonable, I'd just assume go with the maximum possible current (the 6-50R) to future proof the EVSE against not just a possible LEAF upgrade but against potentially even my next Electric Vehicle (EVSE). Either way, whether the LEAF is 3.3kW or 6.6kW this is all Level 2 charging since it is all at 220V - 240V.

In all the previous cases, those are alternating current, meaning that first the voltage pushes the electrons forward, then it pulls them backward then forward again in a sine wave at 60Hz. You don't need to know that detail, just remember that Level 1 and Level 2 are Alternating Current (AC). Quick charging is Direct Current (DC), meaning that the electrons are always pushed in one direction along the wire. Quick Charging uses DC. In fact, it uses DC at typically 440V - 480V electromotive force, which means the LEAF can charge really fast. This is quoted as about 30 minutes to go from 0% charge to 80% charge. It would take a lot longer to go from 80% charge to 100% charge using the DC circuit so this is usually not recommended. This DC connection is only available if you get the $700 Quick Charge option for the SL model.

Incidentally, Quick Charging is not the same as Level 3 charging since Level 3 charging is not standardized yet which is why some of us are nervous about trusting Nissan to guess correctly that the standard they use will become the official standard.

Hope that helps!
 
wwhitney said:
StrangerTides said:
If I try this, and ask for an estimate, do I just tell him I want to be able to charge my Leaf and he'll know what I mean, or do I need to give him the specs of the Leviton device, the car, or what?
The specs of the Leviton device, in particular the receptacle required for the particular Leviton model you will be using: 6-20R, 6-30R, or 60-50R (if memory serves).

Cheers, Wayne
Just a heads-up to everyone considering the Leviton (or another plug-in) EVSE. (I know it is currently my favorite.)

Remember the controversy of why an EVSE needed to be hardwired ?

So, Leviton apparently found a way around that ... **BUT** ... I heard from a knowledgeable source that the Leviton plug/receptacle is a special mating design which de-energizes everything when you unplug the unit. (This makes good sense, and helps with the UL.)

A couple of consequences arise. a] the convenience of unplugging it and taking it to GrandMa's house turns the EVSE into a non-UL device. That's probably ok for most of us experienced geeks, but not good for "GrandMa" types. b] There may (or may not) also be something special or proprietary about the plug, despite being listed with a standard NEMA designator. The consequence of this is hopefully NOT that it won't fit (and WORK in) a standard NEMA 6-xxR at GrandMa's house. I suspect the EVSE will still work ... but be aware. c] I would recommend you finalize your plug-in EVSE vendor decision and then use Leviton's provided special receptacle, and not install (or have installed) a standard off-the shelf NEMA 6-xxR. Just order the mounting kit from Leviton.

Also, the Leviton has not yet completed UL testing and listing AFAIK.
 
LEAFer said:
c] I would recommend you finalize your plug-in EVSE vendor decision and then use Leviton's provided special receptacle, and not install (or have installed) a standard off-the shelf NEMA 6-xxR. Just order the mounting kit from Leviton.

Seconded, if for no other reason than you may not get the EVSE tax credit if you just install the 6-xxR receptacle first and then the EVSE since the credit is for the EVSE and associated wiring, but if done separately, the IRS might not accept the wiring as part of the EVSE install. But, IANAA.
 
I plan to make a few very short adapters to "adapt" the Leviton plug
to the different sockets that I might encounter while "roaming".

Old Dryer, New Dryer, RV, two-120v sockets, etc.
Other suggestions?

Use: for emergencies when a Quick-Charge is not available, or
for "end-point" charging at friend's, or grandma's house,
and for use at work, and the "standard" charging, at home.
 
Everyone,

Here we go again speculating! If you read the Leviton spec on the dock it states the Nema 6-50R I believe and there is even a picture of it somewhere, it is a standard Leviton plug commonly used with welders and other devices. I have three in my garage and I posted a pic on another thread. It's a basic plug and there is no special cut off or circuit! Besides, that would be pointless since removing the plug cuts the power anyway! And yes, as Gary said you can make many adaptors, it has been done for years, I have a bucket of them and even AVCON adaptors.

Leviton- plugs into a basic outlet

AV- hard wired with a couple screw terminals

This is the MOST basic level of household wiring there is. Basic stuff here folks. All these EVSE units are the same they just have different cords.
 
TimeHorse said:
garygid said:
two-120v sockets

I'd like to see how you do this.


I did this years ago but I don't suggest doing this unless you are VERY versed in AC. You need to grab to hots of two separate circuits. It has been discussed here before. If there was an EV adaptor I likely made a version of it. I first saw this trick from one of the chief designers at Think back in 99'
 
OK, I am slow at answering, but ...

The Theory:
From two opposite-phase 120v sockets, one uses the L1 hot from
one and the L2 hot from the other (along with the neutral and ground)
to "make" a 240v source in a normal residence.

Commercial, but a bit expensive:
http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

The Basics:
Typicaly all the sockets in one wall will be on one phase, so
finding an "other-phase" socket is sometimes a "hunt".
A safe connection-finding process is essential.

Two small, low-wattage 120v "lamp bulbs" wired in series
across the hots would usually tell you when you have
the two out-of-phase 120v "hots" to make the 240v.
Normal brightness lights for 240v, and essentially no light
from two "hots" that are the same phase.

The Legal:
Probably NOT legal.
MUCH CAUTION and SAFETY advised!
ALL RISKS and CONSEQUENCES are YOURS!
 
Back
Top