Danny said:
Danny, don't forget that there is a significant difference in warranty - 3 year in-home when install is done by AV instead of 3 year shipping it back to AV. It might make sense for you to choose AV for yours.
EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread
- Thread starter EVDRIVER
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Danny, don't forget that there is a significant difference in warranty - 3 year in-home when install is done by AV instead of 3 year shipping it back to AV. It might make sense for you to choose AV for yours.
smkettner
Well-known member
There are two hots and a ground. Easy slam dunk, nothing new, no tricks, no special equipment needed.Danny said:
solarman
Well-known member
I'm still trying to make a decision about which EVSE to order...
I've narrowed my choices down ... I don't need a plugged EVSE ... I have a dedicated 40A breaker and conduit already in place
I'd like (but don't want to pay too much for) an EVSE rated for more than 24A - leaning toward EVSE rated for 7.2kW
the AV at $751 is reasonably priced and will meet my immediate needs... but not sure if I want to give them my business.
The ClipperCreek CS40 looks rugged enough and should meet any future needs but expensive at $2250
The Coulomb Technologies CT500 looks pretty good, it's $1850 and I can't seem to get much feedback about it. The salesperson was pushing the network features which frankly, I could live without - I can always keep track of my EV electricity consumption using another set of TED 5000 sensors (I'm currently monitoring my home usage and PV production this way)
Anyone out there with anything to say about the Coulomb Technologies CT500 EVSE?
I've narrowed my choices down ... I don't need a plugged EVSE ... I have a dedicated 40A breaker and conduit already in place
I'd like (but don't want to pay too much for) an EVSE rated for more than 24A - leaning toward EVSE rated for 7.2kW
the AV at $751 is reasonably priced and will meet my immediate needs... but not sure if I want to give them my business.
The ClipperCreek CS40 looks rugged enough and should meet any future needs but expensive at $2250
The Coulomb Technologies CT500 looks pretty good, it's $1850 and I can't seem to get much feedback about it. The salesperson was pushing the network features which frankly, I could live without - I can always keep track of my EV electricity consumption using another set of TED 5000 sensors (I'm currently monitoring my home usage and PV production this way)
Anyone out there with anything to say about the Coulomb Technologies CT500 EVSE?
garygid
Well-known member
Is the CT500 actually available for delivery yet?
JPC2822
Well-known member
Solarman,
There will be many more EV Home chargers available next year and cheaper pricing to follow as well! I dont even think you can buy an AV if you are not on their priority list meaning that you will get your LEAF in a month give or take. There are not a lot of EV chargers available before Dec.31, 2010. Best of luck!
There will be many more EV Home chargers available next year and cheaper pricing to follow as well! I dont even think you can buy an AV if you are not on their priority list meaning that you will get your LEAF in a month give or take. There are not a lot of EV chargers available before Dec.31, 2010. Best of luck!
cinmar
Well-known member
So, AV called me the other day to ask if I'd like to schedule my install. When I informed the person that my quote was a ridiculous nearly $11k, and that I already had most of my work done when my solar system was installed, she didn't really get it. She said, "well, maybe we can rework your quote - how about I remove the cost for a new electrical panel and just leave in the cost for trenching." I tried unsuccessfully to explain that the trenching they quoted was for for the new panel and sub-panel. She still didn't get it. I explained that everything is ready to go now - I just need the EVSE, but I may not get my LEAF till late Spring, so I'm not interested at this time.
A day later, I get a VM from the sub who did the assessment. Apparently, the message that I only need the EVSE was not relayed to him properly. He wanted to know if they could get me to schedule an install if they discounted the nearly $11k by reworking/discounting my quote. I never called him back. Their confusion, miscommunication, and lack of knowledge is pretty frustrating.
A day later, I get a VM from the sub who did the assessment. Apparently, the message that I only need the EVSE was not relayed to him properly. He wanted to know if they could get me to schedule an install if they discounted the nearly $11k by reworking/discounting my quote. I never called him back. Their confusion, miscommunication, and lack of knowledge is pretty frustrating.
smkettner
Well-known member
I would ask for a refund of the $100 sucker fee before I considered anything additional from AV.
solarman
Well-known member
garygid said:
They are taking orders ... Not sure how long it takes for delivery, but they are advertising "get it before 12/31/2010". The person I spoke with by phone at Clean Fuel Connections wasn't very coherent when I asked about how quickly they could deliver. I did not feel like this person knew very much. He really didn't answer most of my questions (he did admit he had just come from the dentist and was in pain).
I suspect this CT500 unit requires an active ChargePass account and ChargePass card. I've decided it is too expensive and too complicated for my needs. I just want to plug into 240 volts. My quoted delivery for the LEAF is April-July 2011, so plenty of time to get more info on EVSE options and prices - If I can buy a viable product for under $1000 I don't mind missing out on the Federal Tax Credit if it isn't renewed next year.
solarman
Well-known member
JPC2822 said:
Thanks John - so with my Spring/Summer 2011 delivery date, you're saying that AV is not likely to deliver the charging station by Dec 31, 2010? Would I still be able to submit my order online in 2010?
EricH
Well-known member
I was able to get a cash/carry charger from A/V, and my electrician installed it. The installation was simple (as someone posted earlier; two "hot" wires and a ground), and cost just over half of what Aerovironment quoted me. My guy didn't have the faux-car appliance that A/V's contractors use to test the charger, but it has a self-test function that's easy to activate and read.
EVDRIVER
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2010
- Messages
- 6,753
JasonT said:
Yes. $100 refund, they can't even do a bid properly. Regardless I ran my own conduit at a total cost of 1.5 hours and about $100. I will likely not buy a 240 EVSE since I expect to have a no-cost solution for a portable EVSE, or some thing for a couple hundred.
Boomer23
Well-known member
Just poking around the Volt forum site (nothing to do while I'm "Pending" and watching all of the early LEAF deliveries with envy).
Seems that there is about as much dissatisfaction with SPX among the Volt buyers as there is for AV amongst us.
Interesting read. You could just insert "AV" for "SPX" in the comments and it would read just like one of our EVSE threads.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?6120-My-disappointment-with-SPX-and-by-extension-GM
"I assume SPX is marking up these contracts, but without inside information I can't be sure what's really going on. My guess is that both SPX and their subcontractors are trying to milk this whole situation in the extreme, and the lack of competition from GM handing them the monopoly on 240V chargers is hurting all of us."
The one difference is that GM has a person responding to the Volt forum. That has been very lacking from Nissan, and it makes quite a difference.
Seems that there is about as much dissatisfaction with SPX among the Volt buyers as there is for AV amongst us.
Interesting read. You could just insert "AV" for "SPX" in the comments and it would read just like one of our EVSE threads.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?6120-My-disappointment-with-SPX-and-by-extension-GM
"I assume SPX is marking up these contracts, but without inside information I can't be sure what's really going on. My guess is that both SPX and their subcontractors are trying to milk this whole situation in the extreme, and the lack of competition from GM handing them the monopoly on 240V chargers is hurting all of us."
The one difference is that GM has a person responding to the Volt forum. That has been very lacking from Nissan, and it makes quite a difference.
sjfotos
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing Ohmie!
Was it all conduit to the EVSE?
Was it all conduit to the EVSE?
Boomer23
Well-known member
Ohmie said:
Cool idea to make a little door in your fence and inset the EVSE in its own little roofed enclosure. Very good thinking, I doubt I'd have come up with it, though necessity is the mother of invention!
SDElectrician
New member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 4
I work for an SPX certified installer for the Chevy Volt so I can share some accurate information that you may find enlightening. It is probably the same situation for Aerovironment contractors. The primary factors that affect the cost of any EV charger installation are: is there room and enough power for a new 240V circuit and what is the distance from the panel to the desired charger location. That is the bottom line for determining the cost for most installations.
There several reasons the official Aerovironment and SPX quotes are so much higher than you would expect, and it is NOT because the contractors are in collusion to rip off the customers.
This is why your quotes are so high:
1) Since the EV project chargers are being funded by the DOE the contractors are required to pay their electricians "prevailing wages" which are mandated by the federal government. These wages vary from county to county. They are essentially union scale wages and are significantly higher than most contractors typically pay their electricians. (Plus an hourly chunk for benefits). This can more double our labor costs on these DOE funded jobs. We have to pay prevailing wage from the moment they step into the truck to install a DOE funded charger. Then on top of that we have to fill out 2+ hours worth of forms proving we are actually paying the electricians the federally mandated wage.
2) Typically for a small job like installing a single circuit for a new appliance such as an EV charger, it is not customary to pull a permit. If your panel needs to be upgraded- then yes, but to just add a circuit typically it’s not done. Since these are DOE funded jobs we MUST pull a permit for every one of these installations. The cost of the permit will vary depending on your location, in San Diego a permit is $276. Some cities are far less; others such as NY are even more.
So now if you take a very simple installation that we’d normally charge $500 for without pulling a permit, now we have to quote it at prevailing wages which drives that $500 up to about $875 (for a simple install).
Now add $276 for the permit to the $875 prevailing wage quote and you're at $1151 for an installation that we would normally charge you about $500. Then to add insult to injury, Aerovironment and SPX are for profit organizations that need to make something on the deal. So they add THEIR markup to the entire package. I can’t say what Aerovironment does, but SPX was even marking up the cost of the permit until the contractors and customers made a fuss. Thankfully they don’t mark up the permits anymore. If you are working directly with Ecotality on the EV project, they don’t mark up the installation, but the work still must be priced at DOE wages. In that case you may still want to have any work leading up to the actual charger installation done separately.
The contractors are not making any more on these jobs than they would on their own. Sometimes we even cut our prices so the final version is less outrageous.
If you qualify for the $1200 rebate and your installation quote is just a few hundred dollars over, you are still coming out way ahead. The Coulomb chargers sell for $2500 and the Blinks $1500(These are what's being installed for the Volts). A simple installation would cost around $500. More if your charger is any distance from the panel or you don’t have enough space.
If your panel needs to be upgraded or there is more than about 5 feet between your panel and charger locations DO NOT have that work done though Aerovironment or SPX. Have any electrical work up to the point of the charger installation done on your own. You should look for an electrical contractor who is familiar with EVSEs because there are some additional requirements and you want someone who understands EVSEs. We are doing quite a bit of work for LEAF and EV project customers because we don’t have to charge the DOE rates. When we are sent out by SPX for a DOE installation we are required to charge the higher rates (plus they mark it up).
A lot of EV buyers are upset when they get these high quotes. As a representative of a small company, I’m here to tell you that the contractors are not happy when people think they are overcharging for EVSE installations. We don’t make any more on these jobs than if we were doing them on our own and it can be damaging to our reputation if potential customers think we’re charging high rates for no good reason. PM me if I can provide further information.
There several reasons the official Aerovironment and SPX quotes are so much higher than you would expect, and it is NOT because the contractors are in collusion to rip off the customers.
This is why your quotes are so high:
1) Since the EV project chargers are being funded by the DOE the contractors are required to pay their electricians "prevailing wages" which are mandated by the federal government. These wages vary from county to county. They are essentially union scale wages and are significantly higher than most contractors typically pay their electricians. (Plus an hourly chunk for benefits). This can more double our labor costs on these DOE funded jobs. We have to pay prevailing wage from the moment they step into the truck to install a DOE funded charger. Then on top of that we have to fill out 2+ hours worth of forms proving we are actually paying the electricians the federally mandated wage.
2) Typically for a small job like installing a single circuit for a new appliance such as an EV charger, it is not customary to pull a permit. If your panel needs to be upgraded- then yes, but to just add a circuit typically it’s not done. Since these are DOE funded jobs we MUST pull a permit for every one of these installations. The cost of the permit will vary depending on your location, in San Diego a permit is $276. Some cities are far less; others such as NY are even more.
So now if you take a very simple installation that we’d normally charge $500 for without pulling a permit, now we have to quote it at prevailing wages which drives that $500 up to about $875 (for a simple install).
Now add $276 for the permit to the $875 prevailing wage quote and you're at $1151 for an installation that we would normally charge you about $500. Then to add insult to injury, Aerovironment and SPX are for profit organizations that need to make something on the deal. So they add THEIR markup to the entire package. I can’t say what Aerovironment does, but SPX was even marking up the cost of the permit until the contractors and customers made a fuss. Thankfully they don’t mark up the permits anymore. If you are working directly with Ecotality on the EV project, they don’t mark up the installation, but the work still must be priced at DOE wages. In that case you may still want to have any work leading up to the actual charger installation done separately.
The contractors are not making any more on these jobs than they would on their own. Sometimes we even cut our prices so the final version is less outrageous.
If you qualify for the $1200 rebate and your installation quote is just a few hundred dollars over, you are still coming out way ahead. The Coulomb chargers sell for $2500 and the Blinks $1500(These are what's being installed for the Volts). A simple installation would cost around $500. More if your charger is any distance from the panel or you don’t have enough space.
If your panel needs to be upgraded or there is more than about 5 feet between your panel and charger locations DO NOT have that work done though Aerovironment or SPX. Have any electrical work up to the point of the charger installation done on your own. You should look for an electrical contractor who is familiar with EVSEs because there are some additional requirements and you want someone who understands EVSEs. We are doing quite a bit of work for LEAF and EV project customers because we don’t have to charge the DOE rates. When we are sent out by SPX for a DOE installation we are required to charge the higher rates (plus they mark it up).
A lot of EV buyers are upset when they get these high quotes. As a representative of a small company, I’m here to tell you that the contractors are not happy when people think they are overcharging for EVSE installations. We don’t make any more on these jobs than if we were doing them on our own and it can be damaging to our reputation if potential customers think we’re charging high rates for no good reason. PM me if I can provide further information.
garygid
Well-known member
You say the cost is high because the installer gets paid union wages, but then say the installer does not make any more than usual. Does that seem inconsistant?
Maybe companies like AV are charging the government $250 per hour for the paperwork?
An AV "certified" installer near here said they get a flat $400 for a "standard" (up to 30 feet) install, and do not get paid at all for the MANY assessments they do.
If the city requires a job permit, a reputable installer would get one, right?
So, somehow your story sounds ... perhaps slightly incorrect.
Maybe companies like AV are charging the government $250 per hour for the paperwork?
An AV "certified" installer near here said they get a flat $400 for a "standard" (up to 30 feet) install, and do not get paid at all for the MANY assessments they do.
If the city requires a job permit, a reputable installer would get one, right?
So, somehow your story sounds ... perhaps slightly incorrect.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Can’ put in drive,reverse or neutral my Nissan leaf 2018- Latest: alin nistor
-
-
-
-