Highest number of miles driven, uninterrupted, on 1-charge

[Caracalover]

Hi, newbie here, don't have a Leaf but considering it (drove one Thursday). I really don't need an EV, as I live in downtown Hayward so can walk to services, and I bicycle to work. My car is only used for out of town trips. The one I take most often is to Monterey, to scuba dive (with ca. 250 lb. of gear in the car), parking my car at San Carlos Beach aka the Breakwater. According to GoogleMaps this is 98.4 miles from my driveway, while my car odometer says it is 100.2 (original tires) or 101.0 (replacements for originals).

Thanks.

The best way to get around is live near what you do, congrats on doing that.

As for the vehicle, if you have a reliable car now, hold on to it and wait. The LEaf could make this trip I believe, I do 70 miles and have two bars showing on the meter every Sunday, some of it up a steep incline, some of it on a flat freeway at reasonable speeds. With what I have read here, I know I could get another 40 miles, but I don't want to take my battery below 20% charge if I can avoid it. I try to not even get close. I wonder if you be comfrotable and confident on this trip. What about the longer trips? With your driving habits, a volt or Prius might be a better choice until the all EV gains a few years of real world competition.

A Tesla Roadster can do this trip, and you might even get back home on a single charge if you are a light foot. You would need to use the passenger seat for your gear though...

 

[GRA]

Thanks to all for your replies, I'm going to try to reply to as many as possible in this post, so my apologies for its length. My current car is a 2003 Subaru Forester, bought because I go up to the mountains a lot to hike, backpack and cross-country ski, and I needed to be able to sleep in the car. I checked the Leaf and I could sleep in it, I just need to make a cover for the cargo well to flatten the floor there. At least, I used to go to the mountains a lot; since I took up scuba I've been going to Monterey a lot more. Partly that's because it's only half the time, distance and expensive gas to get there, and partly it's because scuba is a lot newer to me, so currently more interesting.

Re traveling at 45 or 50, that's not really an option on the freeway, even with light traffic. It's just too slow and dangerous with everyone else going 65 to 75. And it's a poor advertisement for EVs in any case (the 'moving traffic jam' effect), and I don't want to do that. And coming back on Sunday afternoon, going 45-50 or even 55 isn't an option; there's lots more traffic and it's all moving at freeway speeds, plus it's often hot enough to need the air conditioner. Since I often stop in Gilroy to eat dinner on Sunday on the way back, it's no big deal to stop and charge for 1-1.5 hours as long as there's a restaurant within walking distance of the deale,r or wherever some other charging stations get installed.

Clearly, the Leaf is unsuitable for 1-way trips over about 120 miles or so, even with a quick charger, since Nissan makes warning noises about doing more than 1 quick charge a day. I used to spec and sell alternative energy systems, so I understand their reasoning - fast charging causes batteries to get hot and swell. I do wish Nissan'd used some of the 400+ lb. the Leaf is lighter than the Volt for extra batteries for extra range, the larger motor to maintain the performance, and the beefed-up structure etc. to carry it all. But that would have jacked the price into Volt range, so we'll just have to wait for battery prices to fall and in the meantime use the Leaf for what it's best suited for, i.e. a 2nd car for urban and commuting use.

If I bought a Leaf (or any current EV), I'd either have to keep the Subie for longer trips that EVs just can't do now (not in my price range, anyway), or else rent for longer trips. A Plug-in Hybrid like the Volt would make more sense for a single, all-around car, although the lack of AWD would be an issue in winter. I intend to look at them, too.

Thanks for the info on the upcoming RAV4 EV; I guess they're bringing out a new generation. The city of Hayward used to have a couple which they charged in a city parking garage, but a few years ago they got rid of the RAV4s and removed the chargers. I'm going to encourage them (and the city of Monterey) to install some new chargers, whether Chargepoint or what have you.

Until battery price/KwH drops considerably, or else we get EVs designed for battery lease/exchange such as 'A Better Place' is working on, the masses aren't going to be able to afford a touring range EV. Still, the Tesla S is a lot cheaper than the roadster, and the 300 mile-range version (guessing a worst case 220 or so) moves us a lot closer to the Holy Grail (or Lithium-Silicon, Lithium-Sulfur, or Lithium-air batteries, whichever comes first )

 

[TonyWilliams]

The Rav4 EV will not be a new car, but the current model converted. Mostly for CARB compliance and PR.

 

[planet4ever]

I checked the Leaf and I could sleep in it, I just need to make a cover for the cargo well to flatten the floor there.

The cargo organizer solves that problem nicely. I recommend it.

Re traveling at 45 or 50, that's not really an option on the freeway, even with light traffic. It's just too slow and dangerous with everyone else going 65 to 75.

I agree that 45 or 50 is too slow on the freeway, but you are wrong about "everyone else going 65 to 75". The truck limit is 55, and most trucks actually travel about 60. I've traveled long distances on Bay Area freeways at 55, including 680, 880, and 101, and it is neither dangerous nor a rolling traffic jam if you stay in the right lane.

But you don't have to take the freeways all the way. For you, take Mission Blvd from Hayward to the second place it crosses 680 just north of Milpitas. Take 680 to Capitol Expy to 101 to Blossom hill. Then take Monterey Rd to Gilroy, bypassing Morgan Hill on 45 mph Butterfield. Hop back on 101 at the north end of Gilroy. There is only one place you have to keep up with the fastest traffic, and that is the 5-mile 2-lane stretch between Prunedale and Castroville.

Since I often stop in Gilroy to eat dinner on Sunday on the way back, it's no big deal to stop and charge for 1-1.5 hours as long as there's a restaurant within walking distance of the dealer, or wherever some other charging stations get installed.

Well, there are several fast-food restaurants within a few blocks of the dealer, including a Super Taqueria. But as a hiker, your idea of "walking distance" is undoubtedly much farther than mine, so a 1-mile hike over the freeway overpass takes you to the Gilroy Crossing area where you will find a good variety of places to eat.

Ray

 

[GRA]

I checked the Leaf and I could sleep in it, I just need to make a cover for the cargo well to flatten the floor there.

The cargo organizer solves that problem nicely. I recommend it.

I suspect I may want the full width of the well for scuba tanks, so the organizer may not work. I normally carry 4 plus my other gear, and the length behind the seat may be a bit short to put them lengthwise as I do with my Forester. I need to measure it to be sure. I keep the seats up (and the tanks tied down if possible) when hauling tanks - the last thing I want is 200 lb. of steel flying at 60mph slamming into me in an accident.

Re traveling at 45 or 50, that's not really an option on the freeway, even with light traffic. It's just too slow and dangerous with everyone else going 65 to 75.

I agree that 45 or 50 is too slow on the freeway, but you are wrong about "everyone else going 65 to 75". The truck limit is 55, and most trucks actually travel about 60. I've traveled long distances on Bay Area freeways at 55, including 680, 880, and 101, and it is neither dangerous nor a rolling traffic jam if you stay in the right lane.

The problem is where and at what time. On Saturday mornings the freeway traffic is pretty light, and I can do 55 without having an 18-wheeler climb my back bumper every couple of minutes, although they're often doing 63-65 that time of day when there's fewer CHP. Still, 60 is better, and the EPA rates the Leaf (with a brand-new battery, to be sure) for 70 miles @ 55mph, on a 95 degree day with the A/C on low (Eco, I guess). In my case, I'd probably want the heater on, maybe need the defroster, and the lights will be on at least part of the way unless I'm traveling right around the summer solstice (all the way if there's fog).

Sundays coming home, everyone is zooming, at least once they get past the stop and go traffic that often starts on 156 and may extend up as far as Gilroy depending on what events are happening in Monterey/Carmel that weekend. On such days I take the back roads at Castroville and bypass Prunedale, winding up at 101 at either the Red Barn (Tarpey Road, I think) or even further north.

But you don't have to take the freeways all the way. For you, take Mission Blvd from Hayward to the second place it crosses 680 just north of Milpitas. Take 680 to Capitol Expy to 101 to Blossom hill. Then take Monterey Rd to Gilroy, bypassing Morgan Hill on 45 mph Butterfield. Hop back on 101 at the north end of Gilroy. There is only one place you have to keep up with the fastest traffic, and that is the 5-mile 2-lane stretch between Prunedale and Castroville.

Mission has a fair number of signals on it at least through Fremont, and since it appears that I'd have to stop in S.J. to charge in any case, I might as well take 880 that far. I'm looking at using Monterey Road between say Bailey Ave. and the north end of Morgan Hill - in urban San Jose I suspect there's too many cross-streets. After charging in dowtown S.J. I could take 87 to 85 to 101, or maybe 82 (which becomes Monterey avenue) if it's not too broken up. Through Morgan Hill there also looks to be far too many cross streets for Monterey Ave. to let me cruise without stopping regularly, but as you suggest Butterfield may work - the question is whether I'd actually save any juice vice staying on the freeway at a higher speed, as Butterfield is longer and may be more hilly (don't know). Prunedale to Castroville isn't a problem, as the speed limit there is 50 IIRR (not that I normally drive the speed limit if the road's empty, but for an EV I'd have a reason to slow down). In any case, next time I go down to dive I plan to explore the various back roads for myself, seeing which ones allow cruising without too many stop signs and signals.

Since I often stop in Gilroy to eat dinner on Sunday on the way back, it's no big deal to stop and charge for 1-1.5 hours as long as there's a restaurant within walking distance of the dealer, or wherever some other charging stations get installed.

Well, there are several fast-food restaurants within a few blocks of the dealer, including a Super Taqueria. But as a hiker, your idea of "walking distance" is undoubtedly much farther than mine, so a 1-mile hike over the freeway overpass takes you to the Gilroy Crossing area where you will find a good variety of places to eat.

Ray

I often eat at Hometown Buffet there, so my culinary needs aren't very demanding :lol: . According to Google that's 2 miles from the dealer, i.e. a 35 minute walk each way. Doable but a bit longer stop than I'd like, so on my route survey I'm going to check the area around the dealer.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Guy

 

[GRA]

The Rav4 EV will not be a new car, but the current model converted. Mostly for CARB compliance and PR.

I meant a new EV version. IIRR there was an earlier generation RAV4 EV, or was it was a CR-V (memory being the second thing to go)?

Guy

 

[planet4ever]

since it appears that I'd have to stop in S.J. to charge in any case, I might as well take 880 that far.

Surely you would be better off charging at Premier Nissan on Capitol Expy, rather than downtown San Jose. So far as I know the only charging stations downtown are in parking garages with steep parking rates, and I don't think they are waived for EVs. The only catch with Premier Nissan is that it is logically in the middle of a cloverleaf, and inaccessible from west-bound Capitol. You have to go 1/3 mile past the the dealer and try to make a U turn (or take cloverleafs onto and back off of Almaden Expy).

I'm looking at using Monterey Road between say Bailey Ave. and the north end of Morgan Hill - in urban San Jose I suspect there's too many cross-streets.

Actually, there aren't many cross-streets once you get past the downtown area, because Monterey runs along a heavily used railroad track which has only occasional grade crossings. You can certainly get on at Bernal, 3 miles north of Bailey, or Blossom Hill, 2 miles further north. You can even take it from Capitol, another 2½ miles further north. Yes, Monterey Rd could definitely benefit from some resurfacing between Blossom Hill and Bailey, but it's drivable.

Through Morgan Hill there also looks to be far too many cross streets for Monterey Ave. to let me cruise without stopping regularly, but as you suggest Butterfield may work

You definitely don't want to take Monterey through downtown Morgan Hill unless you are planning to stop there (we do have some very nice restaurants) or it is late at night. There are no hills on Butterfield, but it does curve the wrong way at both ends, and does have half a dozen stop lights in its 3 mile length, so I don't know whether it would be a net savings over the freeway.

Incidentally, if you ever wanted to go to Santa Cruz or anywhere else on the northern part of Monterey Bay, the way to get there from my neck of the woods is to take Watsonville Rd, which ends only 2/3 mile from where Butterfield currently stops. They should be connected within a year or two, but for now it is 1+ miles via Tennant and Monterey.

I often eat at Hometown Buffet there, so my culinary needs aren't very demanding :lol: . According to Google that's 2 miles from the dealer, i.e. a 35 minute walk each way. Doable but a bit longer stop than I'd like, so on my route survey I'm going to check the area around the dealer.

Ah, what you want is the charging station at Gilroy Premium Outlets that I have discussed with them. Meanwhile, you might consider Mimi's, Famous Dave's, or Carino's.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

The Rav4 EV will not be a new car, but the current model converted. Mostly for CARB compliance and PR.

I meant a new EV version. IIRR there was an earlier generation RAV4 EV, or was it was a CR-V (memory being the second thing to go)?

Guy

Yes, there was an earlier RAV4 EV about 10 years ago, and now there will be a 2012 RAV4 EV based on the current vehicle. Toyota does not redesign the car until after 2012.

Tesla is doing the work on the 2012 RAV4 EV.

 

[mark13]

Leafan I take Grand Ave. from 151 ave to 51 ave 3 days a week..One day time trip and 2 night time trips..I still have yet to see another Leaf in Phx :shock:

 

[GRA]

since it appears that I'd have to stop in S.J. to charge in any case, I might as well take 880 that far.

Surely you would be better off charging at Premier Nissan on Capitol Expy, rather than downtown San Jose. So far as I know the only charging stations downtown are in parking garages with steep parking rates, and I don't think they are waived for EVs. The only catch with Premier Nissan is that it is logically in the middle of a cloverleaf, and inaccessible from west-bound Capitol. You have to go 1/3 mile past the the dealer and try to make a U turn (or take cloverleafs onto and back off of Almaden Expy).

I was awake this morning at 4:30 or so, so decided to check things out. On Mission Blvd. from Jackson St. to the first intersection with 680, there are 34 stoplights. Speed limits vary from 35-50, with 40 & 45 being most common. Near downtown Hayward they're ripping up the center of the road, so they've set all the traffic signals to go through a full sequence, left turns included, regardless of whether there's any traffic. Aargh! Once you get near Union City the signals decrease in frequency and get smarter, but there were still a few that stopped me for no apparent reason, and even a little cross-traffic. 12.9 miles by my odometer (less actual), 24 minutes, and more hassle than I want to put up with.

On 680 I could find a truck to pace at 56-57; I guess the cost of fuel has caused the companies to order their drivers to slow down (and with wireless GPS, they can actually enforce it). Although the trucks on 880 were going faster, 60-63, and the cars were mostly doing 69-75, with plenty faster and a few stragglers going the speed limit or a bit less. I found 57-58 on 880 to be decidedly uncomfortable with that speed and amount of traffic, and 60-62 felt a lot safer - cars weren't zooming up behind me quite as fast before passing. Traffic is lighter early Saturday morning, though.

Downtown S.J., I checked out the convention center, Adobe, and Deloitte, and as you say they all have expensive parking (and at least one was closed to the public that time of the morning; you need to know the secret handshake (i.e. pass card or code) and go in a different entrance. But the Nissan dealer is likely to suffer from the same problem as all the other dealers I've checked, they're not open (and no access to the chargers) at the time I'd need them on the way down, roughly 5:15 to 6:15 a.m. Saturday.

I'm looking at using Monterey Road between say Bailey Ave. and the north end of Morgan Hill - in urban San Jose I suspect there's too many cross-streets.

Actually, there aren't many cross-streets once you get past the downtown area, because Monterey runs along a heavily used railroad track which has only occasional grade crossings. You can certainly get on at Bernal, 3 miles north of Bailey, or Blossom Hill, 2 miles further north. You can even take it from Capitol, another 2½ miles further north. Yes, Monterey Rd could definitely benefit from some resurfacing between Blossom Hill and Bailey, but it's drivable.

Right, brain fart. I meant Bernal not Bailey, and Blossom Hill is a possible.

Through Morgan Hill there also looks to be far too many cross streets for Monterey Ave. to let me cruise without stopping regularly, but as you suggest Butterfield may work

You definitely don't want to take Monterey through downtown Morgan Hill unless you are planning to stop there (we do have some very nice restaurants) or it is late at night. There are no hills on Butterfield, but it does curve the wrong way at both ends, and does have half a dozen stop lights in its 3 mile length, so I don't know whether it would be a net savings over the freeway.

<snip>

I often eat at Hometown Buffet there, so my culinary needs aren't very demanding :lol: . According to Google that's 2 miles from the dealer, i.e. a 35 minute walk each way. Doable but a bit longer stop than I'd like, so on my route survey I'm going to check the area around the dealer.

Ah, what you want is the charging station at Gilroy Premium Outlets that I have discussed with them. Meanwhile, you might consider Mimi's, Famous Dave's, or Carino's.

Ray

Thanks again. I'm coming to the conclusion that all the extra time and hassle exceeds the minimal increase in inconvenience I'm willing to put up with on a regular basis (1-4 trips a month for diving). What might be interesting the first time or two would quickly become annoying, then irritating. I shouldn't _have_ to drive on back roads just to get there, when the freeway is the quickest, shortest and safest way. Until they get a no-parking fee, level 2 or 3 charger located in Gilroy or thereabouts, I think the Leaf's range is just too short for my needs. However, from what I'm reading the RAV4 is going to have a lot more battery (ca. 50 KwH, with ~37 KwH usable) so it may be able to do the trip non-stop, and a small SUV is better suited to my needs anyway. Now I just have to hope that Toyota can sell it for a non-Tesla price. My appreciation to all who commented/offered advice.

Guy

 

[mdh]

since it appears that I'd have to stop in S.J. to charge in any case, I might as well take 880 that far.

Surely you would be better off charging at Premier Nissan on Capitol Expy, rather than downtown San Jose. So far as I know the only charging stations downtown are in parking garages with steep parking rates, and I don't think they are waived for EVs. The only catch with Premier Nissan is that it is logically in the middle of a cloverleaf, and inaccessible from west-bound Capitol. You have to go 1/3 mile past the the dealer and try to make a U turn (or take cloverleafs onto and back off of Almaden Expy).

I was awake this morning at 4:30 or so, so decided to check things out. On Mission Blvd. from Jackson St. to the first intersection with 680, there are 34 stoplights. Speed limits vary from 35-50, with 40 & 45 being most common. Near downtown Hayward they're ripping up the center of the road, so they've set all the traffic signals to go through a full sequence, left turns included, regardless of whether there's any traffic. Aargh! Once you get near Union City the signals decrease in frequency and get smarter, but there were still a few that stopped me for no apparent reason, and even a little cross-traffic. 12.9 miles by my odometer (less actual), 24 minutes, and more hassle than I want to put up with.

On 680 I could find a truck to pace at 56-57; I guess the cost of fuel has caused the companies to order their drivers to slow down (and with wireless GPS, they can actually enforce it). Although the trucks on 880 were going faster, 60-63, and the cars were mostly doing 69-75, with plenty faster and a few stragglers going the speed limit or a bit less. I found 57-58 on 880 to be decidedly uncomfortable with that speed and amount of traffic, and 60-62 felt a lot safer - cars weren't zooming up behind me quite as fast before passing. Traffic is lighter early Saturday morning, though.

Downtown S.J., I checked out the convention center, Adobe, and Deloitte, and as you say they all have expensive parking (and at least one was closed to the public that time of the morning; you need to know the secret handshake (i.e. pass card or code) and go in a different entrance. But the Nissan dealer is likely to suffer from the same problem as all the other dealers I've checked, they're not open (and no access to the chargers) at the time I'd need them on the way down, roughly 5:15 to 6:15 a.m. Saturday.

I'm looking at using Monterey Road between say Bailey Ave. and the north end of Morgan Hill - in urban San Jose I suspect there's too many cross-streets.

Actually, there aren't many cross-streets once you get past the downtown area, because Monterey runs along a heavily used railroad track which has only occasional grade crossings. You can certainly get on at Bernal, 3 miles north of Bailey, or Blossom Hill, 2 miles further north. You can even take it from Capitol, another 2½ miles further north. Yes, Monterey Rd could definitely benefit from some resurfacing between Blossom Hill and Bailey, but it's drivable.

Right, brain fart. I meant Bernal not Bailey, and Blossom Hill is a possible.

Through Morgan Hill there also looks to be far too many cross streets for Monterey Ave. to let me cruise without stopping regularly, but as you suggest Butterfield may work

You definitely don't want to take Monterey through downtown Morgan Hill unless you are planning to stop there (we do have some very nice restaurants) or it is late at night. There are no hills on Butterfield, but it does curve the wrong way at both ends, and does have half a dozen stop lights in its 3 mile length, so I don't know whether it would be a net savings over the freeway.

<snip>

I often eat at Hometown Buffet there, so my culinary needs aren't very demanding :lol: . According to Google that's 2 miles from the dealer, i.e. a 35 minute walk each way. Doable but a bit longer stop than I'd like, so on my route survey I'm going to check the area around the dealer.

Ah, what you want is the charging station at Gilroy Premium Outlets that I have discussed with them. Meanwhile, you might consider Mimi's, Famous Dave's, or Carino's.

Ray

Thanks again. I'm coming to the conclusion that all the extra time and hassle exceeds the minimal increase in inconvenience I'm willing to put up with on a regular basis (1-4 trips a month for diving). What might be interesting the first time or two would quickly become annoying, then irritating. I shouldn't _have_ to drive on back roads just to get there, when the freeway is the quickest, shortest and safest way. Until they get a no-parking fee, level 2 or 3 charger located in Gilroy or thereabouts, I think the Leaf's range is just too short for my needs. However, from what I'm reading the RAV4 is going to have a lot more battery (ca. 50 KwH, with ~37 KwH usable) so it may be able to do the trip non-stop, and a small SUV is better suited to my needs anyway. Now I just have to hope that Toyota can sell it for a non-Tesla price. My appreciation to all who commented/offered advice.

Guy

when do we expect the Rav4 EV to be in market?

 

[abasile]

when do we expect the Rav4 EV to be in market?

Check out http://www.toyota.com/esq/topics/2010/rav4_ev_demonstration_program.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A fully-engineered vehicle is targeted to launch in 2012. The fully-engineered vehicle will target a range of 100 miles in a wide range of climates and conditions.

Toyota isn't saying much. At least in the public eye, they seem to be focusing much more on the upcoming Prius Plug-in. You might have to wait at least another year, unfortunately.

 

[LEAFfan]

A little off topic are we?