Honda Fit EV Concept

[Boomer23]

I didn't see a thread on this new Honda EV concept. Please merge if I've duplicated.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/17/honda-debuts-fit-ev-concept-production-version-coming/

Given the ICE Fit's good reviews on driving dynamics, this one might be a contender. And it has a Sport mode for better acceleration, which pleases me. The Fit is already a roomy and useful platform. No data given on pack size, motor power, charger kW, etc, so all of that remains to be seen. And of course, it's an electrification of an existing ICE platform, so weight and weight distribution will likely be issues. I'll be watching this one, though.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

...range will be around 100 miles with a top speed of 90 miles per hour...

I wonder if that will be about what this technology is capable of for the foreseeable future.

 

[Boomer23]

...range will be around 100 miles with a top speed of 90 miles per hour...

I wonder if that will be about what this technology is capable of for the foreseeable future.

Or rather, what the cost/benefit calculations show to be the sweet spot for this first generation of mass produced EVs.

 

[TRONZ]

I think its great that Honda is going to start chasing BEV. Hydrogen is a very complex process by comparison and just seemed like the 06-08 "politically expedient" route. Remember, Big Oil made it clear that they WANTED the U.S. to commit to hydrogen in the future (aka, Hydrogen Economy???). Not because Oil liked Hydrogen but because it would require converting all the massive existing oil infrastructure and stations... which would then be easy for Oil to control, block, delay since they own this existing infrastructure. Good move Honda!

 

[LeafinThePark]

I am really curious about the price of the electric Fit...and of course when they are going to be offered in up here in the frozen tundra of Minnesota.

By the time the Leaf comes my way, both the Fit and the Focus could be only months further down the road. At a minimum I expect to know enough about all three to feel like I can make an intelligent choice.

 

[evnow]

Unfortunately I think for both Honda & Toyota - the EVs are just to satisfy the new CARB rules in CA. I'm not convinced these are real nationwide serious efforts.

 

[garygid]

evnow,
You give no indication that you are (most likely) joking.
You are joking, right?

 

[evnow]

evnow,
You give no indication that you are (most likely) joking.
You are joking, right?

I wish I was.

Starting 2012 CARB mandates actual zero emission cars (instead of using fuel efficient ICE to cover for zero emission cars). What are the chances that Toyota & Honda suddenly deciding to launch EVs starting 2012 in just a coincidence ?

update :

See the first pdf. Page 13 (C-4).

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevregs/zevregs.htm

Starting in 2012, all manufacturers need to have actual zero emission vehicles to meet the ZEV requirements. Until then, they can be met with hybrids (PZEV, ATPZEV etc).

From 2012 to 2014 there is a 0.79% ZEV floor and from 14 to 17 that goes up to 3%. I think Toyota & Honda will lease some converted EVs in CA to start with.

 

[smkettner]

...range will be around 100 miles with a top speed of 90 miles per hour...

I wonder if that will be about what this technology is capable of for the foreseeable future.

Range is just a trade off to price to maximize convenience vs cost. An optional larger battery might come into play some day.

Top speed I believe is limited due to the single speed transmission. OK it could be increased with a change of gearing but that may need a larger motor and inverter as you give up torque from changing the gear ratio.

 

[evnow]

Range is just a trade off to price to maximize convenience vs cost. An optional larger battery might come into play some day.

Also size of battery. In a converted car a bigger battery will eat into luggage / passenger space (see Focus EV).

 

[Ohmie]

By the time the Leaf comes my way, both the Fit and the Focus could be only months further down the road. At a minimum I expect to know enough about all three to feel like I can make an intelligent choice.

The LEAF will be a very well known quantity by then. The Fit and Focus? Not so sure... I'd still expect them to be working out the kinks.

 

[evnow]

By the time the Leaf comes my way, both the Fit and the Focus could be only months further down the road. At a minimum I expect to know enough about all three to feel like I can make an intelligent choice.

The LEAF will be a very well known quantity by then. The Fit and Focus? Not so sure... I'd still expect them to be working out the kinks.

Right. I don't see how an EV that is called a "concept" now becomes well known in a year. I think we will know Focus a little better - but, Fit, no way. Expect Fit & Rav 4 EV to be on sale end of next year.

 

[LeafinThePark]

Unfortunately I think for both Honda & Toyota - the EVs are just to satisfy the new CARB rules in CA. I'm not convinced these are real nationwide serious efforts.

It will come down to a business decision...going nationwide will cast X amount. Can they make more than X amount by doing so...that will be the question. So if Honda has designed and is producing the Fit for California, what is the added expense to go country wide? Cold weather package, marketing, increase in production (either reducing builds of other models or increased capacity).

The strategy of the car companies will be determined in big part on what the market in the heartland and on the east coast is for BEV's. And that is hard to determine until Joe Schmoe in Omaha can check out Leaf/Focus/iMiev/Fit at his local dealer.

 

[LeafinThePark]

Talked to a fairly knowledgeable Red at the Twin Cities auto show last night...he said the Fit electric will be on sale sometime in calender year 2012.

What was interesting was Honda's apparent push for natural gas. A civic will be available next year...and along with the car they will be selling a home refueling station. At least the impression I got last night was Honda is betting on this more than electric.

 

[Spies]

Honda has been selling the Civic GX since 1998. I think what is new is that they plan to offer the vehicle in all 50 states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_GX

I am still disappointed in Honda for killing the EV Plus and focusing their attention on hydrogen fuel cell automobiles. The 2002 FCX uses the chassis from the EV plus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Plus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX#2002_FCX

 

[LeafinThePark]

What was new to me was the home natural gas refueling station. Must admit it is fairly appealing.

 

[Adrian]

What was new to me was the home natural gas refueling station. Must admit it is fairly appealing.

ok, going off topic. As an owner of multiple Honda Civic GXs over the past 6 years (I currently own 2) I can tell you the home fueling station concept offered with a Civic GX is not a new one. I bought my cng home fueling station back in 06 or 07: a Fuelmaker Phill. It was a great idea that failed due to poor implementation and lack of regard to customer feedback. The federal and state rebates reduced the cost of the unit to $0, but then installers gouged customers by charging $2,000+ for a 2 hour installation job; much like Nissan and the AV EVSE installations. In addition the unit had a high failure rate and impractical repair cost due to requirement to ship to Canada for repairs, Honda owned part of Fuelmaker, then Fuelmaker went bankrupt and was sold through an asset sale to BRC, and Italian company. The units are coming back on the market; which is what you must have seen. Last I heard they had to be shipped to Italy for repairs. That's a worse idea than Canada. Anyway, there are larger units sold by BRC (also a former Fuelmaker model) which can be serviced in the US. This is the FM series and makes sense, unlike the Phil. Until the Phil is serviceable by local reps, it will continue to fail. Check out www.cngchat.com for all the information on home refueling units currently available and some that are supposed to become available by the end of this year.

 

[TRONZ]

Big Oil is already trying to game natural gas as the next fuel. The industry has dramatically increased their holdings in NG and they are fracking everything in sight to drive prices through the floor (Please watch the documentary "GasLand" if you don't know what fracking is and how bad this is for the environment). If they can get people hooked on "cheap" NG today, later you will see the same crazy price speculations as oil. IMHO, if they want you to buy it and burn it, just say NO!

OT - The Fit's EV specs are a clone of the LEAF. I checked it out at the LAAS and it was just like a regular Fit which is sorta disappointing.

 

[Adrian]

Big Oil is already trying to game natural gas as the next fuel. The industry has dramatically increased their holdings in NG and they are fracking everything in sight to drive prices through the floor (Please watch the documentary "GasLand" if you don't know what fracking is and how bad this is for the environment). If they can get people hooked on "cheap" NG today, later you will see the same crazy price speculations as oil. IMHO, if they want you to buy it and burn it, just say NO!

OT - The Fit's EV specs are a clone of the LEAF. I checked it out at the LAAS and it was just like a regular Fit which is sorta disappointing.

I'll buy and burn natural gas over diesel and gasoline any day.

 

[AndyH]

You called it right, TRONZ - the same way they're promoting hydrogen.

Yes - NG is cleaner at the tailpipe. But it's not worth if if we have to poison our kids 'over here' to have fewer emissions 'over there'.

If we can get enough NG with conventional (old school) extraction and/or fracking, or with expanded landfill methane collection, then I'm all for it. But if the industry is going to continue to pump diesel fuel and heaven knows what else into the ground - and into our rapidly disappearing fresh water supply - to do their neu-fracks then no way.

Yes - absolutely DO beg, borrow or steal a copy of Gasland.


edit...typos do vex me...