How long 'til 4th bar drops?

[Evoforce]

5/15/2016

 

[futureal]

I have a 2012 Leaf in Northern California, in land, hot (+90F) in the summers.

First three years I babied the battery, always charged to 80% and majority of that was with 120V. Only twice used the QC and watched the battery heat, which never got above 7 bar, even when it was 110F. I lost bar one at 30K, bar two at 40K, bar three at 51K. Currently at 55K.
Full charge at 67F reads 181GIDS (64.4%) with SOC reading 87.6%, with 14.0kWh and 40.66h at 390V. This will jump up to 190GIDS if the battery warms up to 5 bars. Battery inspection received a pass at the dealship.

Of course now I want to loose a fourth bar and get a battery replacement. Nissan sent me free 3mo QC card so I have use the QC about twice a week for the last month, with no change in the total GIDs (~190). From what I have read, this battery should just about be ready to loose the four bar at <68% capacity.

Any predictions of when to expect the four bar loss? Winner will get a $20 starbucks or peets coffee card mailed to them.

Thanks

J

Yesterday my 2012 SL Leaf with 43000 miles on it - lost 9th capacity bar. LeafSpy read Ahr=43.28, SOH 65%, Hx=44.85. I immediately went to the dealer where they did their own test whichh vehicle failed. Now 6-8 week wait for a new battery.

You can lose your 9th bar anyday now, how I think I got to the 8th bar? This is how I changed my driving behavior: Do 75mph on a highway, deplete battery all the time, charge it to 100% on 240v and 110v all the time, I did not care to charge it on QC so much as it actually raised my Ahr number. In my case contrary to everyone else's QC actually does not deplete capacity, its just regular charging and the fact that Nissan produced faulty batteries on these 2011-2012 models. So next time your on a high way, get in to the left lane and follow traffic ..you will lose your bar faster.

 

[DaveEV]

QC will definitely hasten capacity loss in the long term - that's Physics. It just temporarily raises AHr readings. So it's probably something you don't want to do right before warranty period is up, it does take a week or so before the values settle down again.

 

[futureal]

QC will definitely hasten capacity loss in the long term - that's Physics. It just temporarily raises AHr readings. So it's probably something you don't want to do right before warranty period is up, it does take a week or so before the values settle down again.

Thanks for clear that up, QC raised my Ahr's and did settle down later, it was way weird so I stopped bothering to charge on DC to 100%, just got my 80-90% and left the DC charge station all the time lately, seemed like a combination of that plus 75mph highway driving hastened the death of the 9th capacity bar.

 

[jeff]

Greetings fellow Leaf owners! I just bought the following:

2013 Leaf SV with QC, Nav and tinted windows. No BU cam.
21,000 miles.
Last six digits of VIN: 409096
Manufactured 05/13
Placed into Service: 06/13
Location: Chandler, AZ
Paid $8,500
The vehicle only has 10 bars, but is otherwise in pristine condition.

Only having 10 bars allowed me to bargain hard, and the reduced range is not an issue with me, but obviously I’d like to drop 2 more bars and get the free cheese. After reading quite a lot of what all you Big Brains have so generously contributed to this forum (thank you!), I’ve tentatively concluded that the way to have the best chance of qualifying for the warranty replacement is to:

1.) Use Leaf Spy and an OBD2 reader to monitor battery degradation.
2.) Park it in the sun plugged in.
3.) Charge to 100% as often as possible, preferably with the QC.
4.) Discharge the battery as low as possible, as frequently as possible.
5.) Drive it like I stole it.

Any other suggestions?

Lastly, is it even remotely possible to roughly quantify the degradation effects of the QC? I only ask because the trickle charger suits my needs just fine, but if the QC is key to maximum degradation then I’ll have one installed.

Seriously, I’m an engineer but some of you guys are way out of my league!

Thank you!

 

[QueenBee]

Any other suggestions?

Lastly, is it even remotely possible to roughly quantify the degradation effects of the QC? I only ask because the trickle charger suits my needs just fine, but if the QC is key to maximum degradation then I’ll have one installed.

Seriously, I’m an engineer but some of you guys are way out of my league!

I think your list is pretty good. Since you have so many miles left in the warranty I'd definitely recommend driving as much as you can.

One thing to note is there are essentially three levels of charging. Commonly called level 1 to 3. Level 1 being 120 volt. Level 2 240 volt. And then level 3 being CHAdeMO/DC Quick Charging.

Generally the opinion has been that there is no difference between level 1 and level 2 but if it were me I'd install a level 2 EVSE as it will allow your car to spend more time at 100% charge and it will get to 100% before night time cooling can happen, and the quicker charge rate will cause some level of additional heating. I'm not sure if I've seen anyone do a comparison but you may need every little bit to loose these next two bars.

Once you have LEAFSpy you'll be able to see how close you are. Then I would be tracking monthly projections down to low 60% SOH so you can ensure you are going to make it before the warranty runs out.

 

[jeff]

I think your list is pretty good. Since you have so many miles left in the warranty I'd definitely recommend driving as much as you can.

One thing to note is there are essentially three levels of charging. Commonly called level 1 to 3. Level 1 being 120 volt. Level 2 240 volt. And then level 3 being CHAdeMO/DC Quick Charging.

Generally the opinion has been that there is no difference between level 1 and level 2 but if it were me I'd install a level 2 EVSE as it will allow your car to spend more time at 100% charge and it will get to 100% before night time cooling can happen, and the quicker charge rate will cause some level of additional heating. I'm not sure if I've seen anyone do a comparison but you may need every little bit to loose these next two bars.

Once you have LEAFSpy you'll be able to see how close you are. Then I would be tracking monthly projections down to low 60% SOH so you can ensure you are going to make it before the warranty runs out.

Thank you QueenBee!

According to the OpenCharge and PlugShare apps on my iPhone, there are a couple of public Level 3 charging locations in my area which I will visit.

I will also read up on level 2 EVSE's in the "EVSE / Charging Equipment" category.

 

[Evoforce]

Good luck!

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

Any predictions of when to expect the four bar loss? Winner will get a $20 starbucks or peets coffee card mailed to them.

Thanks

J

Guess a date, mileage, or both? Very generous of you to offer.

 

[BradFoxUS]

I have a 2012 SL with 50,481 miles. In service date puts me at another year to go. Do you think I will reach 8 bars before I hit 60,000 Miles? Currently LeafSpy Pro says I have 73% SOH and it hasn't changed for a month.

 

[jdc]

Mileage +/- 100miles and date plus or minus a month. 184GIDs now, 30Apr16 55000miles. It is heating up here in the Concord/Walnut Creek area. I hit turtle mode on my way to the QC, had to be pushed 200 feet by other Leaf owner into the charge bay. That was fun.

 

[GRA]

I have a 2012 SL with 50,481 miles. In service date puts me at another year to go. Do you think I will reach 8 bars before I hit 60,000 Miles? Currently LeafSpy Pro says I have 73% SOH and it hasn't changed for a month.

You've got a good chance. If it's going to happen this summer will be responsible, so drive it like you stole it, QC it to 100% and then leave it in the sun on asphalt for several hours. Repeat.

 

[BradFoxUS]

I have a 2012 SL with 50,481 miles. In service date puts me at another year to go. Do you think I will reach 8 bars before I hit 60,000 Miles? Currently LeafSpy Pro says I have 73% SOH and it hasn't changed for a month.

You've got a good chance. If it's going to happen this summer will be responsible, so drive it like you stole it, QC it to 100% and then leave it in the sun on asphalt for several hours. Repeat.

My ChargePoint Home station is in covered parking sadly, but I'm constantly plugging the car back in when I return from errands or trips. I do a lot of 30-50% drains and a recharge back to 100% during the day. Maybe 2 or 3 times when busy. My SOH dropped down to 71% this past Thursday. I believe I'm reading LeafSpy Pro correctly. SOH is my Capacity, correct? The Wiki on it hasn't been updated to the newer version.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I'd look at Ahr, SOH and Hx. There is more up to date docs in the app via hamburger menu in the upper right > About & Help > Application Help. However, I'm not aware of Nissan having officially documented any of these values that are on the CAN bus.

I don't know if Turbo3 has any info from Nissan insiders, as he doesn't work for them.

 

[Skip]

I am at 58,700 miles in the San Jose, CA. AHR 45.07, SOH 68% Still only 3 bars dropped. Any chance it will happen before millage runs out (I have until November time wise).

AHR at 44.5 SOH 67% Mileage 59,000

 

[ACEOU]

Obsess no more! This morning I am doing the battery dance! Turned it on and, sure enough, 4th bar was dropped. Here are the numbers.

44,116 miles, SOH - 64%, AHr - 42.38, Hx - 43.40%

I am setting the up the appt to get everything checked out and started. Hoping that it is up to date on software as well. Heard a few of those stories of the update changing the capacity level. I'm pretty sure I am fine though. I'll post some updates here.

Just picked the car back up from the dealer after they okayed the replacement. Battery is ordered as of yest/today. Hoping I won't have to wait too long. I believe they said 4-6 weeks for me (in Oklahoma). I'll keep updates on here as well as my new battery readings when I get it back.

Got a call from the dealer today. Battery has been delivered. I will take the Leaf in tomorrow for the replacement! It took exactly 4 weeks to deliver. Will have rental while they install and test.

 

[BradFoxUS]

Obsess no more! This morning I am doing the battery dance! Turned it on and, sure enough, 4th bar was dropped. Here are the numbers.

44,116 miles, SOH - 64%, AHr - 42.38, Hx - 43.40%

I am setting the up the appt to get everything checked out and started. Hoping that it is up to date on software as well. Heard a few of those stories of the update changing the capacity level. I'm pretty sure I am fine though. I'll post some updates here.

Just picked the car back up from the dealer after they okayed the replacement. Battery is ordered as of yest/today. Hoping I won't have to wait too long. I believe they said 4-6 weeks for me (in Oklahoma). I'll keep updates on here as well as my new battery readings when I get it back.

Got a call from the dealer today. Battery has been delivered. I will take the Leaf in tomorrow for the replacement! It took exactly 4 weeks to deliver. Will have rental while they install and test.

While they were waiting on delivery, were you allowed to continue driving your Leaf? I'd rather not get stuck with a gas car while my battery is on order. I'm at 51,221 miles and 70% SOH so it's any day now I will qualify for new cells.


Are you getting a 30kWh pack or the 24?

 

[ACEOU]

Just picked the car back up from the dealer after they okayed the replacement. Battery is ordered as of yest/today. Hoping I won't have to wait too long. I believe they said 4-6 weeks for me (in Oklahoma). I'll keep updates on here as well as my new battery readings when I get it back.

Got a call from the dealer today. Battery has been delivered. I will take the Leaf in tomorrow for the replacement! It took exactly 4 weeks to deliver. Will have rental while they install and test.

While they were waiting on delivery, were you allowed to continue driving your Leaf? I'd rather not get stuck with a gas car while my battery is on order. I'm at 51,221 miles and 70% SOH so it's any day now I will qualify for new cells.


Are you getting a 30kWh pack or the 24?

I believe the replacements are only the 24kWh batteries. I could be wrong though. Also, I am not sure if it is the "lizard" type, but I also heard the replacements should be that type and are the 2015 version of the battery. When you are waiting for shipment of the battery, you will keep your Leaf. You will only get a rental when they are doing the replacement. I lucked out at the dealership this morning, they gave me a 2015 Leaf for the rental! Heated steering wheel and heated seats were nice! Good luck on your battery. Hope you get to do the free battery dance!

 

[QueenBee]

While they were waiting on delivery, were you allowed to continue driving your Leaf? I'd rather not get stuck with a gas car while my battery is on order. I'm at 51,221 miles and 70% SOH so it's any day now I will qualify for new cells.

Did you really mean 70% SOH?? I have really bad news for you. You aren't anywhere near close to getting a new pack. At 70% SOH I would think you either have just lost the 3rd bar or will so shortly. You need to lose 4 bars which doesn't happen until somewhere more like 64% SOH with a few points of range.

 

[cwerdna]

"Bay Area" covers an awful lot of microclimates. One of the local TV forecasters occasionally puts up a graphic showing a 30, 40 and even occasionally a 50 deg. temperature delta over a 35 mile distance, from say Pacifica (coastal fog) to Dublin or Livermore (inland valley heat).

Yep.

http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=331394#p331394

As I posted at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=300216#p300216 in June 2013:
"Today was an illustration of the extreme variance in temps in the Bay Area, probably more so than usual for summer... err spring.

It was pretty darn hot in my part of SJ. News said the city of SJ was 95, but my part gets hotter, I wouldn't be surprised if it got to 97 or 99. Anyhow, today it was 111 F in Dublin, 107 in Livermore, 105 in Walnut Creek but only 62 (!!!) in SF and 67 in Santa Cruz. Other temps for the day: Pacifica at 69, Half Moon Bay at 61 and Bodega Bay at 60."

To add to this, it's not even summer yet, but on the channel 7 11 pm news for 5/18/16, here are some sample high temps for the day:
Half Moon Bay: 64 F
Richmond: 67 F
Santa Cruz: 70 F
San Francisco: 70 F
Oakland: 76 F
Gilroy: 87 F
San Jose: 88 F
Concord: 95 F
Antioch: 100 F