Infiniti's All Electric concept

[surfingslovak]

My bigger question would be whether it still has one motor and a reduction gear. That's a weak point in the Leaf.

+1

 

[edatoakrun]

My bigger question would be whether it still has one motor and a reduction gear. That's a weak point in the Leaf.

+1

How about AWD, with each axle driven independently, by 2 (or each wheel, driven by 4) motors?

Won't happen, till at least the redesign in 4-5 years, though.

I'd be very surprised, if anything other than FWD, and, at most, a slightly larger battery pack, or improved motor performance.

My prediction is, identical drive-train, with slight lightening, and better aerodynamics, giving a small margin of range and/or performance improvement, over the LEAF.

Most of the $10-$15K price margin over the LEAF, will be in style, improved interior design, materials, and added features.

Maybe, even including a defogger, that works without cutting the range 10%...

 

[Drivesolo]

IMHO RWD is over rated.

:shock:

I'm really not sure if you're just joking or you really believe that.

 

[SanDust]

I'm really not sure if you're just joking or you really believe that.

RWD reminds me of a placebo: it does little and 70% of people swear it's a miracle. AWD drive is a different story. But if you're practical the advantages of efficiency and layout make FWD a better choice than RWD. It's not as if many cars are going to beat this Infiniti off the line in real world driving.

 

[Herm]

My bigger question would be whether it still has one motor and a reduction gear. That's a weak point in the Leaf.

Its not really an issue, less things to go wrong. When is the last time you saw a fixed single gear transmission fail?

 

[Drivesolo]

I'm really not sure if you're just joking or you really believe that.

RWD reminds me of a placebo: it does little and 70% of people swear it's a miracle. AWD drive is a different story. But if you're practical the advantages of efficiency and layout make FWD a better choice than RWD. It's not as if many cars are going to beat this Infiniti off the line in real world driving.

:lol:

Apparently you did not ready the topic of this thread. It is about an Infiniti product, not an Nissan product. Therefore it is assumed that expectations of performance and luxury by the potential consumers of this product will take precedence over cost of ownership and efficiency. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of threads on this forum where the efficiency and cost of ownership are part of the overall discussion, this thread is not one of them.

If you are somehow under the impression that performance-wise a FWD is as good as a RWD then I ask you to do this; find one to prove this true. Select and name one production FWD car that is the fastest of all FWD cars in all relevant performance characteristics. That should be easy since the vast majority of cars in production are FWD. Post the name on this thread of that ONE fast FWD car and I will name at least a DOZEN RWD cars that are faster in every performance respect. After we are done w/ this exercise we can then get back to the topic of this thread which is the upcoming Infiniti EV.

 

[Herm]

If you are somehow under the impression that performance-wise a FWD is as good as a RWD then I ask you to do this; find one to prove this true.

Famous auto writer Jack Baruth dispels this myth:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/avoidable-contact-color-my-world-the-case-for-front-wheel-drive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"As always in this industry, it’s a question of marketing. Front-wheel-drive is associated in the public mind with cheap, crappy little cars, while rear-wheel-drive is the land where BMW and Mercedes-Benz dwell. It’s about prestige, it’s about perception, it’s about that bloody Autobahn. It’s about journalists pretending to be racers, and racing journalists forgetting that, contrary to the advertisments, not every day is race day. It’s what Donald Fagen might call “The Royal Scam”, where we all pretend to see and feel things which don’t really exist. It sells magazines and generates clicks on banner ads, but there’s no substance behind the sizzle."

 

[Drivesolo]

If you are somehow under the impression that performance-wise a FWD is as good as a RWD then I ask you to do this; find one to prove this true.

Famous auto writer Jack Baruth dispels this myth:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/avoidable-contact-color-my-world-the-case-for-front-wheel-drive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"As always in this industry, it’s a question of marketing. Front-wheel-drive is associated in the public mind with cheap, crappy little cars, while rear-wheel-drive is the land where BMW and Mercedes-Benz dwell. It’s about prestige, it’s about perception, it’s about that bloody Autobahn. It’s about journalists pretending to be racers, and racing journalists forgetting that, contrary to the advertisments, not every day is race day. It’s what Donald Fagen might call “The Royal Scam”, where we all pretend to see and feel things which don’t really exist. It sells magazines and generates clicks on banner ads, but there’s no substance behind the sizzle."

There is no myth that I am attempting to promote. I read the article above and the author even says:

I believe that FWD continues to be the best choice for a purely street-driven car

At no point does he say that a FWD is as fast or could exhibit the same level of performance as a comparable RWD chassis. He talks about exit speed coming out of a corner as something minor and at no point mentions balance, slip angles, benefits of swat under acceleration or use of oversteer. I would actually agree w/ him by saying that FWD is the best choice for the majority of the population. The majority of the population is not concerned about driving a car at its limits.

When the subject is not efficiency or CoO, the question is simple: Which configuration yields the faster car? I am more than willing to accept the FWD is as good as RWD performance-wise if it can be proven. I have plenty of friends that choose FWD as the cars they track and autoX and know the dynamics and tuning of them well. I own/owned and competed in FWD Sentras (B13 & B15) in motorsports events, I've driven literally dozens of FWD in autoX's, and.... I own a Leaf. There might be some kind of prejudice against RWD cars since the most boastful, conceited, self-centered and generally rude type of car owners tend to come in a car that is identified as RWD. But that is no reason to attempt to redefine what is reality. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question of what the fastest production FWD is out there so I can do my part by naming a dozen RWD car that are faster. But let's take that even further and look to the world of motorsports. If someone could identify a performance oriented motorsport where they have mixed chassis classes run in a sanctioned motorsports competition (i.e.: SCCA autoX, NHRA, GTC, Super GT) where the FWD cars are faster than the RWD cars, I would like to hear it as an argument.

Again, this thread is not about FWD vs RWD, it is regarding the Infiniti EV. We could get back on track discussing it or continue this futile argument of RWD vs FWD.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Again, this thread is not about FWD vs RWD, it is regarding the Infiniti EV. We could get back on track discussing it or continue this futile argument of RWD vs FWD.

Maybe they should make front wheel drive go carts and motorcycles :lol:

I'm confident that if the Infiniti EV is a warmed over LEAF, it will be just fine. Even with FWD. But, I much prefer to drive our RWD Infiniti G37, and my rear wheel drive motorcycles when I feel the need for speed.

 

[SanDust]

Its not really an issue, less things to go wrong. When is the last time you saw a fixed single gear transmission fail?

Fair point but even if they were prone to failure there are so few on the road we'd never hear about one. However, how many transmission failures -- not motor or wiring failures -- have you heard about in a Prius? And there are a million of these jobbies on the road. I'd give up a small measure of reliability for better acceleration and efficiency at higher speeds in a heartbeat.

When the subject is not efficiency or CoO, the question is simple: Which configuration yields the faster car?

The point of the article is that the advantages of RWD in real world driving are problematic at best. People don't go jetting off from 0 to 60. They sit behind someone at a traffic light.

If everything else is the same then yes RWD is better. But things are never the same. A FWD car with a V6 is going to be faster than a RWD 4 banger. As applied to this discussion, electrics are just really quick off the line. They may not post great 0-60 times but in my driving my little Leaf already beats everything else off the line. Given the Infiniti will be even faster, I'm not seeing the benefit of being able to accelerate faster at lower speeds as opposed to getting more range from the battery pack or having more room. On the other hand, the Leaf suffers from a lack of acceleration at higher speeds, and RWD is going to do absolutely nothing to change this. So yes, in this case RWD isn't going to provide any actual benefits.

 

[Herm]

Actually it would not be too difficult to make this car RWD.. if there is room in the back for the motor and differential. I just dont think customers care that much.

 

[surfingslovak]

Actually it would not be too difficult to make this car RWD.. if there is room in the back for the motor and differential. I just dont think customers care that much.

Yes, I'm surprised to hear this also. I would like to see Nissan and Infinity do well, and this car, if it's ever built, would address a customer segment the Leaf might not appeal to. My original plan was to purchase a Model S, and I hope that Nissan will build something that would be more mainstream.

 

[evnow]

I think RWD/FWD is a distraction. The important thing is, it is an EV ;-)

I want to know the range of Infiniti EV, its price and when I can get one.

Competitively it will be squarely positioned against BMW i3. If it has better range than i3, it will be a hit.

 

[RedLeader]

This thread started off good but it's giving me a headache as I read though it now. I don't care if you believe RWD is faster or if you believe FWD is as good or faster. I'm concerned w/ merely this new EV from Infiniti. It's clear to me that there are a few people here that do not know what they are talking about and posted to this thread to just be heard. There are enough misinformation being thrown around over the past day it could fill an episode of Mythbusters. Back on track; the EV is what maters.

BTW: Incase it isn't already know; Drivesolo is (was?) a performance driving instructor for one of the local automotive clubs here in the Puget Sound. He's also an accomplished autoX-er w/ a local championshiop (or two?) to his name. I don't know how much of this he wants known but you can probably PM him and I'm sure that he'd be happy to talk about it.

 

[surfingslovak]

This thread started off good but it's giving me a headache as I read though it now. I don't care if you believe RWD is faster or if you believe FWD is as good or faster. I'm concerned w/ merely this new EV from Infiniti. It's clear to me that there are a few people here that do not know what they are talking about and posted to this thread to just be heard. There are enough misinformation being thrown around over the past day it could fill an episode of Mythbusters. Back on track; the EV is what maters.

BTW: Incase it isn't already know; Drivesolo is (was?) a performance driving instructor for one of the local automotive clubs here in the Puget Sound. He's also an accomplished autoX-er w/ a local championshiop (or two?) to his name. I don't know how much of this he wants known but you can probably PM him and I'm sure that he'd be happy to talk about it.

Yes, agreed, let's keep this on track. To be clear, I don't mind hearing this sort of feedback and deliberation. I'm very interested in the Infinity, and although the technology stack is already well under development, I believe that certain aspects of the vehicle are still somewhat fluid.

 

[Drivesolo]

This thread started off good but it's giving me a headache as I read though it now. I don't care if you believe RWD is faster or if you believe FWD is as good or faster. I'm concerned w/ merely this new EV from Infiniti. It's clear to me that there are a few people here that do not know what they are talking about and posted to this thread to just be heard. There are enough misinformation being thrown around over the past day it could fill an episode of Mythbusters. Back on track; the EV is what maters.

BTW: Incase it isn't already know; Drivesolo is (was?) a performance driving instructor for one of the local automotive clubs here in the Puget Sound. He's also an accomplished autoX-er w/ a local championshiop (or two?) to his name. I don't know how much of this he wants known but you can probably PM him and I'm sure that he'd be happy to talk about it.

lol... For the record, that is not my day job. I only do it on the side when I am available.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm very interested in the Infinity, and although the technology stack is already well under development, I believe that certain aspects of the vehicle are still somewhat fluid.

Regarding how fluid or locked in the design is, I assume that if the car is being shown at the NY show, the drive train is certainly locked in. I would think that at this point, major factors of the design are set in stone and only cosmetic factors and software are fluid. I think I recall reading from the Bay Leafs meeting with the Nissan engineers that they were in the US to approve a design that they either said or some assumed was the Infiniti version of the LEAF that we've know was coming for some time.

 

[gasmiser1]

Can't wait to see a real photo and specs of this EV :mrgreen: I love the LEAF, but looking forward to more power and luxury items upon trading in the LEAF.

Slightly disappointed that the range will remain the same.

I was hoping for a "50-100 additional mileage range option". The LEAF "100 mile" range is more like 80-90 for our conservative distance driving style.

 

[Boomer23]

Slightly disappointed that the range will remain the same.

I was hoping for a "50-100 additional mileage range option". The LEAF "100 mile" range is more like 80-90 for our conservative distance driving style.

The battery pack size is going to be larger than the one in the LEAF. Unless the Infiniti weighs a lot more than the LEAF, the range is likely to be greater than the LEAF's range if the cars are driven in the same conservative way. But Nissan is saying that the focus of the Infiniti will be more toward the performance end of the spectrum, so if driven more aggressively, I'd expect the Infiniti to be faster. The best of both worlds.

 

[gasmiser1]

The battery pack size is going to be larger than the one in the LEAF. Unless the Infiniti weighs a lot more than the LEAF, the range is likely to be greater than the LEAF's range if the cars are driven in the same conservative way. But Nissan is saying that the focus of the Infiniti will be more toward the performance end of the spectrum, so if driven more aggressively, I'd expect the Infiniti to be faster. The best of both worlds.

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I remain hopeful and optimistic

An ESFLOW will work as well for a LEAF replacement :mrgreen: