Intro and Question

[branflakes104]

Hi Guys,

My name is Brandon and I became the owner of a white 2015 LEAF S with quick charge when my wife decided to by one back at the end of June. Since then it's been a great vehicle. So great that I'm considering buying a second one for myself instead of stealing my wife's all the time. I've got my eyes on a used 2013 SV but before I do I have an electical charging question. My commute is 90 miles round trip almost completely freeway. I go 42 to work and 48 home with a daycare stop. I have about 45% left on the battery when I get to work and charge on 110V with the supplied charger for the 8.5 Hours and have about 90% when I leave work and I get home with about 20%. I'd like to charge faster at work for more leeway so I can go out for lunch and stuff. This will also make my life easier if I decide to purchase a second LEAF for myself. You know lunch runs and grocery stops... We recently had some NEMA L15-30 3 phase 208V outlets put in at work for some new equipment our shop received. My boss said that I can use one of those outlets to charge the car and the plug is right by a garage door and nothing sits to the side of the door on the outside so distance from the plug is not a factor . Is there a way to make this outlet work with my LEAF? I'm not an A/C electrical guru but I think the leaf is single phase, and I think if you remove a leg from the 208 3 phase it becomes 208 1 phase?


The idea I've been knocking is the dual turbocord and this adapter from Amazon.... [<script id="gpt-impl-0.5109976638191398" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script>url]http://www.amazon.com/NEMA-L14-30P-6-15-Plug-Adapter/dp/B004XWAKUQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1452263275&sr=8-2&keywords=l14-30+to+6-20[/url]

I verified the turbocord manual and it says it will accept 208v and 240v, but I'm not sure about my conversion from the 3 phase 15-30 outlet to the single phase 6-20.....

I have been considering going this route IF it works because I don't have to mount anything on the wall at work, but I'm open to other ideas.

And do you guys have any recomendations on a J1772 exension becaue a second LEAF will change my home parking scenario? My home charger is the Siemens VC30GRYU with a 20ft cable.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Graffi]

If money is not an issue, get a JESLA. If money is an issue, you can get an open source DYI or get one that is already built by one of several members to this forum that build them for fun. The Turbocord will not give you the full capacity of the onboard 6.6kw charger, whereas the others will. If it were me I would be looking to "future proof" by getting something that will be able to charge greater than 6.6kw if the next generation Leaf has a higher charge rate.

My wife drives our Leaf with only a 19 mile R/T commute. However, if I plan to drive more than 20 miles in a day I will let her take the ICE and I get to drive the Leaf. Yesterday I ended up driving the Leaf almost 60 miles and today I will be driving it for about 30 miles, maybe more if I have to make an extra stop.

 

[inphoenix]

Welcome to the forum. My heart almost sank when I read 90 mile roundtrip mostly freeway ...... and I started breathing again when I read further that you could charge at work. You sure have a nice boss who understands and allowed you to use the L2 charger at work. Wish there were more people/situations like those.

Though your question (3 phase - 1 phase) is beyond my area of expertise, I'm sure there are enough experts on this board to guide you in the right direction. I do agree with Graffi that you should look into "future proofing" by getting something that will be able to charge greater than 6.6kw as the next gen EVs may have a higher charge rate.

 

[asemeco]

You can upgrade your Nissan-supplied trickle charging cable (http://www.EvseUpgrade.com, $287) and get an L15-30P to L6-30R adapter:

Something similar to http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=40214

I don't know about three-phase either.

 

[Stanton]

We could use some location info; depending on where you live, you're not going to go as far in a 2013 as a 2015 in a couple years.
In fact, I would say a Leaf is not the right choice unless you are guaranteed L2 charging at work. You should be able to make the 3-phase/1-phase stuff work (and EVSE upgrade is a good choice).

 

[branflakes104]

My wife drives it 70 miles round trip everyday with about 75% of it being freeway. She brings it home with about 16% left. But she really is starting to get the anxiety since it's getting cold. But we live in Atlanta so even though it's freeway doesn't neccisarrily mean it's moving all the time, esspecially when she leaves. But I leave so early it usually is moving for me. Going home is another issue. We have 10,000 miles on it already.

As far as money goes... I guess it depends. I don't mind spending the money for the right thing, but I'm a cheap skate at heart. That's why I'm driving a LEAF

I haven't found where the location setting is on the site yet. :?

 

[branflakes104]

I already have L2 charging at home and assuming I can get this 3 phase 208V outlet to work I'm guaranteed L2 charging at work. Although my understanding is that 208v will be slower than the 240v I have at home it will still be way faster than 120V outlet that I'm using now. They tried to put these outlets in in convienent places for us through out the shop but we never use this one and where I want to park the car is out of the way. This is why my boss doesn't mind.

But I'm going to get the incentive money back here in about a month from buying the 2015 so I'm considering using that money to pay cash for the 2013. This way if something changes I can sell it quickly and I'm not upside down in a payment for this LEAF.

 

[mwalsh]

The idea I've been knocking is the dual turbocord and this adapter from Amazon.... [<script id="gpt-impl-0.5109976638191398" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script>url]http://www.amazon.com/NEMA-L14-30P-6-15-Plug-Adapter/dp/B004XWAKUQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1452263275&sr=8-2&keywords=l14-30+to+6-20[/url]

I verified the turbocord manual and it says it will accept 208v and 240v, but I'm not sure about my conversion from the 3 phase 15-30 outlet to the single phase 6-20.....

I would not use anything other than a L15-30 plug with L15-30 receptacles in a workplace. If there ever was a fire from that outlet while you're using it, you're the first person they're going to look at for blame, even if it had nothing to do with your equipment.

L14-30 plugs, if they do turn out to be physically the same (and NEMA plugs frequently look the same at first glance when in reality they're not), are internally wired differently from L15-30s.

Have you considered the EVSE Upgrade path and getting your adapters from them too?

http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=28

 

[Bob]

Your trip sounds reasonable for a new Leaf, but batteries wear out. After 5 years, your range will be degraded. There's a ton of information on battery capacity loss with time here, including charts showing loss vs climate so you can estimate capacity after time based on your part of the country:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss

Add to that cold weather which makes the battery less efficient at storing energy and the extra drain on the battery from using the heat, and you may want to reconsider the second Leaf.

Bob

 

[branflakes104]

I have considered the EVSE upgrade, but I have wondered how that would affect the water resistance of the brick. In this scenario the brick would still be inside, but what if I use it elsewhere like a friends house. Also they don't have a pigtail to go to a L15-30 outlet so I would have make one myself and I'm not exactly sure how I would go about that at this point.

I guess I could email the EVSE upgrade people and see if it would work...... couldn't hurt....

 

[Valdemar]

I would not use anything other than a L15-30 plug with L15-30 receptacles in a workplace. If there ever was a fire from that outlet while you're using it, you're the first person they're going to look at for blame, even if it had nothing to do with your equipment.

L14-30 plugs, if they do turn out to be physically the same (and NEMA plugs frequently look the same at first glance when in reality they're not), are internally wired differently from L15-30s.

Have you considered the EVSE Upgrade path and getting your adapters from them too?

http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=28

You're contradicting yourself, following your logic the OP should stick to UL-listed components, which the upgraded brick is clearly not.

 

[branflakes104]

Your trip sounds reasonable for a new Leaf, but batteries wear out. After 5 years, your range will be degraded. There's a ton of information on battery capacity loss with time here, including charts showing loss vs climate so you can estimate capacity after time based on your part of the country:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... acity_Loss

Add to that cold weather which makes the battery less efficient at storing energy and the extra drain on the battery from using the heat, and you may want to reconsider the second Leaf.

Bob

I just read this article.

If this is the case the LEAF may not even work for my wife's 70 mile commute after a few years...... This is discouraging. :|

If this is the case I feel like I was lied to by Nissan when I purchased this vehicle.

 

[Valdemar]

Your trip sounds reasonable for a new Leaf, but batteries wear out. After 5 years, your range will be degraded. There's a ton of information on battery capacity loss with time here, including charts showing loss vs climate so you can estimate capacity after time based on your part of the country:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... acity_Loss

Add to that cold weather which makes the battery less efficient at storing energy and the extra drain on the battery from using the heat, and you may want to reconsider the second Leaf.

Bob

I just read this article.

If this is the case the LEAF may not even work for my wife's 70 mile commute after a few years...... This is discouraging. :|

If this is the case I feel like I was lied to by Nissan when I purchased this vehicle.

We all do. Where are you located? This makes a huge difference.

EDIT: I see you're in Atlanta. Not too bad, but yes 70 miles will be difficult after 3 years, give or take.

 

[mwalsh]

You're contradicting yourself, following your logic the OP should stick to UL-listed components, which the upgraded brick is clearly not.

I'm confident in Phil's engineering. Some guy I don't know modifying the wiring inside a plug to make it work...not so much.

 

[Valdemar]

You're contradicting yourself, following your logic the OP should stick to UL-listed components, which the upgraded brick is clearly not.

I'm confident in Phil's engineering. Some guy I don't know modifying the wiring inside a plug to make it work...not so much.

This has nothing to do with confidence.

 

[finman100]

No issue with the EVSE upgrade from Phil. Lots of confidence after 20,000 plus EV miles. Plus it works with our Plug-in Prius, too!

I'd recommend this route for ANY who want faster charging at home with a properly wired 240V outlet.

 

[Jefe]

Your trip sounds reasonable for a new Leaf, but batteries wear out. After 5 years, your range will be degraded. There's a ton of information on battery capacity loss with time here, including charts showing loss vs climate so you can estimate capacity after time based on your part of the country:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... acity_Loss

Add to that cold weather which makes the battery less efficient at storing energy and the extra drain on the battery from using the heat, and you may want to reconsider the second Leaf.

Bob

I just read this article.

If this is the case the LEAF may not even work for my wife's 70 mile commute after a few years...... This is discouraging. :|

If this is the case I feel like I was lied to by Nissan when I purchased this vehicle.

The article is thorough and very interesting, yes. But don't get discouraged just yet. Much of what is presented there is highly theoretical, and very generalized. It's meant to show a pattern, specifically with relation to geographic climate.

I purchased a used '13 Leaf in November. Based on the geographic location it came from, it should be somewhere around 85% capacity. Well that's not the case. My most recent AHr reading from LeafSpy is 65.68, which means it has seen almost no capacity loss from brand new.

Now who knows what will happen now that it lives in a different climate. But don't assume this chart to be gospel fact.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Considering your wife has a 70mi round trip commute and you have a 90mi (with charging at work). I think that you're gonna find yourself a bit unhappy with a used 2013 SV in a few years. You may find a few things occur. (1) She may be getting home with less than 10% in a year's time and not able to do her commute without charging in 2+ years time (even in a 2015). On the other hand, your 2013 will probably serve you fine for a 90mi round trip commute now if you can charge at work, but even a used 2013 will likely be down 10% capacity (or more) by now. So if anything changes with your work situation, you could be in a bind as well. Here's what I'd do if I were you...

Don't buy a used 2013 Leaf, but here's some options instead.

1. Buy a used Volt - If you baby it you'll get 35-40 mi of range with electric only. This will do nearly your whole one way commute. Still plug in at work and drive home with electric as well.
2. Buy another 2015 Leaf - You can probably find one for as low as 23K out the door right now. With a $7500 tax credit, that's still a pretty reasonable price. (GA did away with its state rebate last year though, bummer).
3. Sit tight until this time next year and go buy a 2016 SV (with more range). They will likely be blowing those things out at major discounts by then.
4. Put a deposit down on a Chevy Bolt when they let you.

I just think that you're asking for trouble with a 2013 if anything changes with your workplace charging scenario. I don't recommend anybody buys an pure BEV that can't handle their round trip commute with at least 25% to spare, even if they have charging at work simply because there are so many things that can change with their situation. Even your wife is pushing this rule a bit with her 70mi commute.

Thanks,
Jonathan
http://www.theevconsultant.com

 

[branflakes104]

I'm confident in Phil's engineering. Some guy I don't know modifying the wiring inside a plug to make it work...not so much.

I'm a Diesel Fleet Mechanic. I work with DC electricity on a regular basis. I hardly ever work with AC electricity which is a different animal all together. But I know enough about electricity to know to not mess with it until you fully understand what your doing with it. This is partially why I'm here. I still have a 2015 LEAF that I still would like to charge more efficiently at work.

Considering your wife has a 70mi round trip commute and you have a 90mi (with charging at work). I think that you're gonna find yourself a bit unhappy with a used 2013 SV in a few years. You may find a few things occur. (1) She may be getting home with less than 10% in a year's time and not able to do her commute without charging in 2+ years time (even in a 2015). On the other hand, your 2013 will probably serve you fine for a 90mi round trip commute now if you can charge at work, but even a used 2013 will likely be down 10% capacity (or more) by now. So if anything changes with your work situation, you could be in a bind as well. Here's what I'd do if I were you...

Don't buy a used 2013 Leaf, but here's some options instead.

1. Buy a used Volt - If you baby it you'll get 35-40 mi of range with electric only. This will do nearly your whole one way commute. Still plug in at work and drive home with electric as well.
2. Buy another 2015 Leaf - You can probably find one for as low as 23K out the door right now. With a $7500 tax credit, that's still a pretty reasonable price. (GA did away with its state rebate last year though, bummer).
3. Sit tight until this time next year and go buy a 2016 SV (with more range). They will likely be blowing those things out at major discounts by then.
4. Put a deposit down on a Chevy Bolt when they let you.

I just think that you're asking for trouble with a 2013 if anything changes with your workplace charging scenario. I don't recommend anybody buys an pure BEV that can't handle their round trip commute with at least 25% to spare, even if they have charging at work simply because there are so many things that can change with their situation. Even your wife is pushing this rule a bit with her 70mi commute.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Thanks for the information guys. You guys sold me on not getting the 2013 SV. If my wife may not be able to drive the 2015 S in a few years it looks like I might inherit it which would make my second LEAF worthless. And one thing about these cars I've learned and been extremely disappointed with the resale value on these things is HORRIBLE...

Honestly I still don't what I will do for my second commuter vehicle. I feel like I've been duped by car manufactures lately.

I recently traded in my Jetta TDI. In hindsight I should have kept it but Volkswagen really really wants those vehicles back but they are being quiet about it. They offered me the full 15K I owed on the TDI to pay it off when the Kelly Blue Book Price plummeted to around 8k. So I traded it and they gave me several thousand off a 2016 GLI. I walked away only paying 22k for the car when the sticker is 28k and honestly I really liked it. With gas being so cheap over Diesel right now I figured it only cost about 4 more bucks a week to fill it. But I applied to VW's gift card good will package before I made the trade and then when the gift cards arrived in the mail I was told I had to take the vehicle to the dealership for validation and activation of the cards. Then when I arrived with the new GLI they said I'm no longer eligible cause I don't own a TDI. WTF! I have the sales contract with the VIN of the trade in TDI in the glovebox! If I knew I was loosing out on $1000 I'd waited a week! I had the car two weeks and then I was side swiped near my house and it was totaled. :? :roll: Insurance paid for it in full so now I'm walking away owing nothing. So now I don't feel like I'm tied to Volkswagen anymore.

I bought the 2015 S two days before the cutoff for the GA 5k tax rebate went away so next month I'm expecting to get the full $12,500 so I was hoping to buy the 2013 SV cash and not have that other vehicle payment at all. We have 3 kids so we have a van for when were all together on the weekends so I'm not in a hurry. I just hate commuting in the van. I'm waiting till my tax return comes anyways so I have downpayment money. Honestly I don't know what I want to buy. I have thought about Volts but honestly I just am not fond of the 1st Gen Volt. Something about the open back seat to the cargo area and that dash. I like the 2nd Gen volt better and it has a better range but they are a bit pricey and hard to find right now. But honestly I'm considering taking my sales contract to VW and asking them to match the price and order an identical car. But I think I'll look at a Prius and Subarus as well.

The other option you guys have me considering knowing my wife's car may not suit her needs sooner than later is just suck it up, drive the van and make double payments on the LEAF to eat this horrible depreciation so I'm not upside down it. Then I can ditch it if needed.

 

[tkdbrusco]

When you factor in the $12,500 you got back via rebates and credits, the Leaf probably hasn't depreciated as much as you think. There's so much going on right now in the world of EVs, waiting is not that bad of an idea. I think by this time next year you'll have many more options. The only thing I would advise against is locking yourself into a lease on anything electric, but it seems that with your commute will prevent that anyways.

I'm in a similar position to you. We have a 2015 S, which meets our needs perfectly right now, and my wife has really reliable charging at work regardless and a 60 mi RT commute, so its not a problem even without the charging. I could go buy a new car right now and replace our second car, but I think I'll wait instead. In March/April we will see what the new Tesla Model 3 is all about and I'll likely just put a deposit down on one of those ASAP even if I'm unsure about it vs. the competition. The reason being is that I think with current production numbers, only the first 6 months of Model 3 buyers will get the full $7500 tax credit. The Chevy Bolt is on my radar as well, as is the Leaf Gen 2 (whenever it comes out). Worst case scenario, once all of these hit the market in a year or so, I'd be willing to bet that there will be a fire sale on the 2016 (30kwh) Leafs still at dealers, so maybe I'll swoop in and pick one of those up for a steal since 107 mi suits me just fine.