Leviton EVSE Group Buy - Are you interested ?

[EVDRIVER]

Actually, I plan on doing this myself. Here's the needed breaker(s) and wires

20A model (L6-20 outlet), 16A max output, breaker 20A, #12 wire
30A model (L6-30 outlet), 24A max output, breaker 30A, #10 wire
40A/50A model (L6-50 outlet), 40A max output, breaker 50A, #6 wire

The breaker needs to be dual-pole.

A slight elaboration on the 40A/50A model: 50A ampacity wiring is required, which for NM (Romex) cable or other wiring method limited to 60C ampacity is indeed #6 wire. However, if you end up using a 75C wiring method, such as THHN in EMT, you can use #8 conductors if both the breaker and the L6-50 outlet are rated for 75C terminations. I would expect them to be so rated, but it would need to be checked.

Cheers, Wayne

That is my spec in a 1" EMT, could easily pull 6 if needed. I like the idea of 9 kw capability.

 

[LEAFer]

While we are getting so technical here ... I'd like to point out that using the "L" prefix in all of the references above (such as L6-20, L6-30, L6-50) is misleading. Per the NEMA standard the "L" under normal circumstances refers to a "Locking" type plug or receptacle. The Leviton plugs/receptacles are NOT the locking type (as found on construction job sites for example). They have straight pins. So the "L" prefix should be dropped.

Also, prior to replying with this I tried to look up the info at http://www.evrgreenchargers.com/Level2Chargers.htm, but when I clicked on the "Level 2 Home Charging Stations" labeled link I get an HTTP 404 error page (not found) ... oops ? ( It used to work and luckily I downloaded the PDFs a few weeks ago.)

 

[Spies]

A slight elaboration on the 40A/50A model: 50A ampacity wiring is required, which for NM (Romex) cable or other wiring method limited to 60C ampacity is indeed #6 wire. However, if you end up using a 75C wiring method, such as THHN in EMT, you can use #8 conductors if both the breaker and the L6-50 outlet are rated for 75C terminations. I would expect them to be so rated, but it would need to be checked.

Cheers, Wayne

I was just about to ask this when I saw your post. So the 40A/50A model needs 50A? From what I understood this model only draws 32A so I would think 40A would be fine. Is it just because it is designed to be plugged into a 6-50 outlet and to wire such an outlet it needs to be 50A? Is there not a 6-40? Am I getting this right?

 

[garygid]

It will be Easy for one person to put the EVSE(s) into a car.

Guessing:
A box for the smaller might be about 1.4 foot wide, 2 feet long (high), and a foot deep. Probably less than 20 pounds, including the cord.

The more "macho" sizes might be 2.4 feet wide, and an extra 5 to 10 pounds.

Again, just guesses.

 

[wwhitney]

That is my spec in a 1" EMT, could easily pull 6 if needed. I like the idea of 9 kw capability.

I'm not sure what you mean about pulling 6 wires, but the NEC prohibits paralleling wires of this size, I think the smallest you can parallel is 1/0 (or thereabouts, I'm too lazy to check the NEC right now).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mitch672]

That is my spec in a 1" EMT, could easily pull 6 if needed. I like the idea of 9 kw capability.

I'm not sure what you mean about pulling 6 wires, but the NEC prohibits paralleling wires of this size, I think the smallest you can parallel is 1/0 (or thereabouts, I'm too lazy to check the NEC right now).

Cheers, Wayne

He is talking about pulling "#6" wires

and yes, the outlet designation should be "6-20R", "6-30R" or "6-50R"

 

[wwhitney]

I was just about to ask this when I saw your post. So the 40A/50A model needs 50A? From what I understood this model only draws 32A so I would think 40A would be fine. Is it just because it is designed to be plugged into a 6-50 outlet and to wire such an outlet it needs to be 50A? Is there not a 6-40? Am I getting this right?

Good point. I haven't checked the Leviton specs, but if their largest charger can only provide 32A to the vehicle, then it only requires wiring of 40A ampacity. As far as I know, there is no 6-40, but for a circuit with only one receptacle (simplex, not duplex), the NEC allows the receptacle rating to be anything greater than or equal to the circuit ampacity. So you could provide 40A ampacity wiring on a 40A breaker and put a 6-50 receptacle on it. For a 40A circuit, #8 copper is the minimum for all wiring methods (in this case).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mitch672]

I was just about to ask this when I saw your post. So the 40A/50A model needs 50A? From what I understood this model only draws 32A so I would think 40A would be fine. Is it just because it is designed to be plugged into a 6-50 outlet and to wire such an outlet it needs to be 50A? Is there not a 6-40? Am I getting this right?

Good point. I haven't checked the Leviton specs, but if their largest charger can only provide 32A to the vehicle, then it only requires wiring of 40A ampacity. As far as I know, there is no 6-40, but for a circuit with only one receptacle (simplex, not duplex), the NEC allows the receptacle rating to be anything greater than or equal to the circuit ampacity. So you could provide 40A ampacity wiring on a 40A breaker and put a 6-50 receptacle on it. For a 40A circuit, #8 copper is the minimum for all wiring methods (in this case).

Cheers, Wayne

Sure, but if you want to plug in your "arc welder", it can't hurt to use the #6 wiring and a 50A breaker, in that case anything that can be pluged into that 6-50 outlet would work. The cost difference between a 40A and 50A breaker is zero, the cost difference between #6 and #8 wire is very small.

 

[evnow]

... the NEC allows the receptacle rating to be anything greater than or equal to the circuit ampacity. So you could provide 40A ampacity wiring on a 40A breaker and put a 6-50 receptacle on it.

That doesn't sound right. It should be the otherway - the receptable should be equal to or less than the breaker/circuitry.

 

[wwhitney]

That is my spec in a 1" EMT, could easily pull 6 if needed. I like the idea of 9 kw capability.

As mitch672 kindly pointed out, I guess you mean #6 wires. But that doesn't provide 9kw capability. The ampacity of #6 Cu at 75C is 65A. Since an EVSE is a continuous load, the highest demand EVSE you could power with it is 80%*65A = 52A. And 52A * 120V = 6.24kw.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Sure, but if you want to plug in your "arc welder", it can't hurt to use the #6 wiring and a 50A breaker, in that case anything that can be pluged into that 6-50 outlet would work. The cost difference between a 40A and 50A breaker is zero, the cost difference between #6 and #8 wire is very small.

Sure, that is always an option. If you use a 75C wiring method (e.g. EMT and THHN), then your #8 Cu is already good for 50A. And if you are using NM, then you can upsize to #6 Cu at a small cost and some extra trouble with bends and fitting the receptacle into the box.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

That doesn't sound right. It should be the otherway - the receptable should be equal to or less than the breaker/circuitry.

For a single repectacle circuit, think about it this way: the circuit is typically going to be dedicated to a particular piece of equipment. So the wiring only needs to handle the known load. If that load is not a standard receptacle size, you certainly can't go downward in receptacle rating, so you go upward.Here is the relevant portion of the NEC:

Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

BTW, for a multiple receptacle circuit, the NEC recognizes the fact that 40A receptacles are not common and allows you to use a 50A receptacle in that case:

Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table
210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Table 210.21(B)(3)

Circuit Rating (Amperes)--Receptacle Rating (Amperes)
15--Not over 15
20--15 or 20
30--30
40--40 or 50
50--50

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mitch672]

That is my spec in a 1" EMT, could easily pull 6 if needed. I like the idea of 9 kw capability.

As mitch672 kindly pointed out, I guess you mean #6 wires. But that doesn't provide 9kw capability. The ampacity of #6 Cu at 75C is 65A. Since an EVSE is a continuous load, the highest demand EVSE you could power with it is 80%*65A = 52A. And 52A * 120V = 6.24kw.

Cheers, Wayne

Wayne,

you need to multiply by 240, not 120.

 

[greenleaf]

By the way does anyone already know which is the receptacle needed for the Leviton EVSE?

See the list from below:

http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm

 

[wwhitney]

you need to multiply by 240, not 120.

Whoops! Sorry about that. Ok, let's try again:

(#6 Cu 75 degree wiring method ampacity = 65 A) * (80% continuous load factor) * 240V = 12.48 kW if you can find an EVSE and car than can handle 52A.

(#8 Cu 75 degree wiring method ampacity = 50 A) * (80% continuous load factor) * 240V = 9.6 kW. So for 9 kW using EMT/THHN, you only need #8 Cu.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

By the way does anyone already know which is the receptacle needed for the Leviton EVSE?

I recall seeing 6-20R, 6-30R, 6-50R for the three models, respectively. Hopefully someone else can verify. That means their EVSE doesn't require a neutral.

Cheers,Wayne

 

[evnow]

Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Hmmm ... let us take a example. We have a load that needs 32 Amps. You find a receptacle that is rated at 40 amps and you plug it in. But - the receptacle coulbe be connected to a circuit & breaker set for 20 amps ? How does that make sense ... ?

The breaker would trip everytime you switch on the load.

 

[greenleaf]

Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Hmmm ... let us take a example. We have a load that needs 32 Amps. You find a receptacle that is rated at 40 amps and you plug it in. But - the receptacle coulbe be connected to a circuit & breaker set for 20 amps ? How does that make sense ... ?

The breaker would trip everytime you switch on the load.

The code for the receptacle ensures that the receptacle does not burn out. You still need to make sure that the wire and breaker meets your load requirements.

 

[evnow]

The code for the receptacle ensures that the receptacle does not burn out. You still need to make sure that the wire and breaker meets your load requirements.

So, NEC wants to make sure the receptacle doesn't burn before the breaker can trip. So, I guess the right approach is to have the receptable & breaker have the same amp rating. The cable ofcourse can have higher rating.

 

[wwhitney]

Hmmm ... let us take a example. We have a load that needs 32 Amps. You find a receptacle that is rated at 40 amps and you plug it in. But - the receptacle could be be connected to a circuit & breaker set for 20 amps ? How does that make sense ... ?

The breaker would trip everytime you switch on the load.

Right, it would. But the NEC is a safety standard, not a design standard. The situation you describe is safe from overloads, if not very useful.

The upshot is that is OK (NEC and safety-wise) to put a 50A receptacle on any 40A circuit. If you want to, label the receptacle "Max 40A".

Cheers, Wayne