Loud reverse braking

[gncndad]

Nope. Very common mistake, though.

Can't you change it??? :roll: :lol:

I'm loosing my patients over it, irregardless how hard it is for you the change it. Is it there mistake, or yours?

 

[Nubo]

Following advice from another Leaf owner I drove along our road for about a quarter of a mile with the parking brake partly applied. Next time I parked I used the parking brake and when I reversed... blessed silence!
Time will tell how long this remedy works for and I shall report accordingly.

This is interesting. But in my case I can modulate the squeaking with brake pedal pressure so I'm not sure how that would translate to parking-brake pad squeal. Sounds worth a try though; I can't imagine destroying the linings with a bit of mild braking.

Nubo, I suspect we are barking up different trees! The (service) brakes do 'grunt' a bit when almost stopped and that also seems to be a feature of the Leaf. We're referring to a nasty squealing noise and resistance to progress in reverse after parking with the foot-operated parking brake. The pedal is released, reverse selected, and the car is reluctant to move without accelerator pressure (when it usually creeps like a normal torque converter auto), and yet after a normal journey reversing is back to normal as long as the parking brake remains unused.

I suspect you're right; there are 2 different squeaks being discussed in this thread. It's been some time since I bedded my brake pads so I need to try that first; it's just such a minor thing I haven't gotten around to it. Slightly embarrassing though when you squeak coming out of the garage . If the bedding doesn't help I'll probably try burnishing the parking brakes as mentioned, just out of curiosity.

 

[motco]

This is interesting. But in my case I can modulate the squeaking with brake pedal pressure so I'm not sure how that would translate to parking-brake pad squeal. Sounds worth a try though; I can't imagine destroying the linings with a bit of mild braking.

Nubo, I suspect we are barking up different trees! The (service) brakes do 'grunt' a bit when almost stopped and that also seems to be a feature of the Leaf. We're referring to a nasty squealing noise and resistance to progress in reverse after parking with the foot-operated parking brake. The pedal is released, reverse selected, and the car is reluctant to move without accelerator pressure (when it usually creeps like a normal torque converter auto), and yet after a normal journey reversing is back to normal as long as the parking brake remains unused.

I suspect you're right; there are 2 different squeaks being discussed in this thread. It's been some time since I bedded my brake pads so I need to try that first; it's just such a minor thing I haven't gotten around to it. Slightly embarrassing though when you squeak coming out of the garage . If the bedding doesn't help I'll probably try burnishing the parking brakes as mentioned, just out of curiosity.

Nubo, forgive me for wandering off-topic, but I'm intrigued by your footnote regarding polymers. For much of my working life I worked in industry in manufacturing, and I qualified many years ago as a polymer technologist - mainly in the engineering part rather than the chemistry of polymers. I also have an old friend who ran the Polymers Center for Excellence in Charlotte, N Carolina. Are you a polymers scientist? Or did I miss a subtle joke looking from here in UK?

 

[Nubo]

Nubo, forgive me for wandering off-topic, but I'm intrigued by your footnote regarding polymers. For much of my working life I worked in industry in manufacturing, and I qualified many years ago as a polymer technologist - mainly in the engineering part rather than the chemistry of polymers. I also have an old friend who ran the Polymers Center for Excellence in Charlotte, N Carolina. Are you a polymers scientist? Or did I miss a subtle joke looking from here in UK?

It's a line from the movie Star Trek IV

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkqiDu1BQXY[/youtube]

 

[Orbiter2006]

Always fun these old episodes of Star Trek ! Have you seen that first gen iMac :lol:

I was thinking more off Lithium Polymers !
"A lithium polymer battery, or more correctly lithium-ion polymer battery, is a rechargeable battery of lithium-ion technology using a polymer electrolyte instead of a liquid electrolyte. High conductivity semisolid polymers form this electrolyte."

But to get back on topic:
This parking brake is almost as old as Star Trek ! Nissan Rogue 2008 already had exaclty the same.
So it looks to be a well proven design. But especially on EV's it should have no friction at all when the brake shoes are fully retracted.

On my car the parking brake shoes do not fully retract anymore, even after increasing the return spring tension under the rear seat. The brake cables run smoothly and look like new, the parking brake pedal works fine and comes up completely when released.
So something must be wrong in the drum brake assembly itself on both sides !

The Nissan manuals all mention that contact surfaces between brake shoe and Back Plate should be greased with PBC ( poly butyl cuprysil grease) or silicone-based grease. PBC is a copper based high temperature grease that should not run off at higher temps and prevent corrosion and pitting on sliding surfaces. To my knowledge silicone-based grease may be just as sticky and resist high temps but does not prevent corrosion or pitting.

Look at page 12 from this link: https://carmanuals2.com/d/47939
and you can see that Nissan recommends to lubricate every brake shoe on at least 3 contact surfaces.
Maybe the grease wears out after years and needs to be reapplied after 5 years ?
Or did the Sunderland factory that made my car (in January 2015) use less durable silicone-based grease ?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Or did the Sunderland factory that made my car (in January 2015) use less durable silicone-based grease ?

Did you happen to notice a faint odor of fish & chips?

 

[motco]

Orbiter, thanks for the reply. Sadly I haven't got an old Apple Mac so I couldn't mimic the keystrokes!

I'll look at the manual later and, when I feel inclined to, I'll dismantle the brake assemblies and have a look for signs of grease. I have some Copaslip (a UK brand of copper loaded grease) so I can apply some if need be. Thanks again.

 

[motco]

Nubo, forgive me for wandering off-topic, but I'm intrigued by your footnote regarding polymers. For much of my working life I worked in industry in manufacturing, and I qualified many years ago as a polymer technologist - mainly in the engineering part rather than the chemistry of polymers. I also have an old friend who ran the Polymers Center for Excellence in Charlotte, N Carolina. Are you a polymers scientist? Or did I miss a subtle joke looking from here in UK?

It's a line from the movie Star Trek IV

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkqiDu1BQXY[/youtube]

Oops! I had a slight feeling that it wasn't quite what it appeared! Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[powersurge]

Nope. Very common mistake, though.

Can't you change it??? :roll: :lol:

I'm loosing my patients over it, irregardless how hard it is for you the change it. Is it there mistake, or yours?

Is this a joke about mistakes?

 

[Virtuallydead]

Update:
It's been about 6 weeks since I drove around with the parking brake on. I would say that I got 4 weeks of smooth silent reversing before it started to show signs of stickiness and noise. However, it is infrequent, very mild, and does not seem to be getting worse. I have a feeling it only is happening when the Wifey applies the brake AND the car sits overnight. She pushes it right to the floor because the loss of brake power assist from a low 12v battery issue happened and gave her a scare. I think for the future I'm just gonna drive with the Pbrake on to the first stop sign down the street on those days that it acts up.

 

[powersurge]

I don 't think that it is worth it to be doing all this just to stop a little squeak in reverse.

Afterall, you are getting a free reverse alarm.

It is normal for the brakes to have a light squeak in reverse.

 

[motco]

I don 't think that it is worth it to be doing all this just to stop a little squeak in reverse.

Afterall, you are getting a free reverse alarm.

It is normal for the brakes to have a light squeak in reverse.

If it were only the noise it wouldn't matter a lot, but it's not. Mine will resist the drive torque quite strongly and may, on occasions, suddenly drop the resistance and the extra power the driver has applied to reverse from a parking bay, resulting in a sudden lurch backwards with possibly expensive results. Only this afternoon I drove a quarter of a mile with the parking brake lightly applied as an attempt to clean the surface corrosion from the drum surfaces. The next time I reverse in my driveway I'll know whether my remedy has worked!

 

[Orbiter2006]

I removed the drum brake last week and discovered that one brake shoe had rusted to the back plate in one spot !
There was no residue of grease or CopaSlip to be found on this spot.

That is strange as the other brake shoe still has plenty of grease where it rests on the back plate.

It looks like they did not apply the correct copper based grease in the factory and did not apply it on all contact surfaces.

I brushed off most rust and applied a bit of CopaSlip, this solved the issue on this side, still have to do the other side.

Driving with the parking brake applied won't solve this, it will only cause excessive wear of your brake shoes.
Better not use the parking brake for prolonged times and pump the brake pedal a couple of times after you released the parking brake.

 

[motco]

Thank you for taking the trouble to post up those pictures Orbiter - very useful. I find that driving with the parking brake partly on for a half mile or so relives the problem for a while. The procedure is actually described in the workshop manual as a method for bedding-in the shoes. It's called a 'drag-run'. See below:

Break-in Procedure INFOID:0000000010122367
1. Perform parking brake break-in (drag run) operation by driving vehicle under the following conditions:
• Drive the vehicle forward.
• Maintain vehicle speed at approximately 40 km/h (25 MPH) keeping it constant in forward direction.
• Apply the parking brake at the constant operating force specified. Approximately 200+49.0 Nm (20.4+5
kg-f, 45+11 lb-f).
• Release the parking brake after approximately 5+5/-0 seconds.
CAUTION:
To prevent lining from getting too hot, allow a cool off period of approximately 5 minutes after
every break-in operation.

They do it for a shorter time, but with far greater force on the pedal than I apply.

 

[goldbrick]

^ The break-in just wears the pads so they mate well with the rotors and only needs to be done once. It's common for any new brake pad install and something similar is recommended for disc brakes although the technique is a bit different.

If you have to repeatedly do this there is a problem with the brakes.

 

[gncndad]

motco, orbiter 2006:

It would be helpful if you'd put your location in your signature. Your experience with rust indicates you're in a humid/cool environment, probably with salted winter roads?

 

[motco]

motco, orbiter 2006:

It would be helpful if you'd put your location in your signature. Your experience with rust indicates you're in a humid/cool environment, probably with salted winter roads?

Fair comments gncndad, location added. It is a cool and humid climate, especially in winter. Salt is used on the roads in sub-zero weather but we've had a mild winter thus far this year so not a lot of that. Lately it's been wet, VERY wet!

 

[Orbiter2006]

motco, orbiter 2006:

It would be helpful if you'd put your location in your signature. Your experience with rust indicates you're in a humid/cool environment, probably with salted winter roads?

Fair comments gncndad, location added. It is a cool and humid climate, especially in winter. Salt is used on the roads in sub-zero weather but we've had a mild winter thus far this year so not a lot of that. Lately it's been wet, VERY wet!

Done that, location here is Netherlands, Europe. Not as wet as UK but problems started after Xmas, a week of non-use and being parked outside with parking brake on. Salt is used to de-ice roads in winter.

The problem of stuck parking brake shoes due to rust is by design ! Both back plate and brake shoe are painted metal, the sliding of the brake shoes will damage the paint so sooner or later these contact surfaces start to rust, especially if not greased.
A stainless steel back plate or stainless steel shim between brake shoe and back plate will prevent the two surfaces bind together.

It is quite normal to use stainless steel clips between disc brake caliper and brake pad lugs but I haven't seen these being used on drum brakes.

 

[motco]

My BMW Z3 has a drum based parking brake as is common on BMWs. It also sticks but only enough to make a 'thud' as I reverse out of my garage. The clue to it being less troublesome may be due to the car being kept in a dry garage integral with the house. Like all BMWs of any age that I have experience of, the parking brake is poor at the best of times.

 

[nateads]

I finally got around to taking the wheels off and checking the brakes. I haven't touched the rear, only got around to the fronts.

I'm found the metal Shim plate fell right off when I removed the caliper.

Cleaned everything up, re-copper greased the tracks they fall into and fingers crossed now. I won't know until next winter unless we get another cold morning.