Low Mileage User - Can I save $$ and skip the 240v Charger?

[davewill]

... right then and there i realized that buying new technology is the only way to get it, but paying new technology prices for accessories might not be a good idea.

lets do another example. 2 years ago or so, we got the Wii. it came with RCA connectors which means 2 or 3 TVs i could not hook it up to. soon, Component connectors were available for $59.99 i put off that purchase.

we will be soon rearranging the home meaning the Wii has to be moved. i ordered the Component connector "kit" which is compatible with a half dozen games consoles including the Wii for $9.47 from Amazon.com ...

For me, playing my Wii (if I was the Wii playing sort) for 2 years in HD rather than SD would have been worth the premium. I feel the same about the convenience of L2 charging. So, I'd go ahead with either the upgrade or one of the lower priced wall mounts before settling for L1, especially since the quantities are apparently not there for competition to lower EVSE prices in the near term. Instead they've been increasing.

 

[fooljoe]

We've been using L1 since June and it works fine. At first we were just using it for short trips but now I have a longer commute and still no issues. Since we rent, our apartment building (80 year old converted building) installed a dedicated outlet near our space for us to use (and they pick up the cost).

We used some ties to create a cradle and holder for the cord in our garage; this way the cord never touches the dirty floor.

That's a nice setup, and nice of your landlord to install that dedicated outlet for you (and to pay for the juice!). But since they went to that expense, I think it was kind of silly not to make it a 240v outlet, which should have cost exactly the same. Even still, you could change it over to an L6-20 (assuming they used #12 wire) for no more than the cost of a new 2-pole breaker and the L6-20 receptacle, then get the $300 EVSE upgrade and you'll charge much faster and more efficiently, which your landlord will thank you for. You should probably put some kind of locking outlet cover over it too in either case, I'd imagine.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

... right then and there i realized that buying new technology is the only way to get it, but paying new technology prices for accessories might not be a good idea.

lets do another example. 2 years ago or so, we got the Wii. it came with RCA connectors which means 2 or 3 TVs i could not hook it up to. soon, Component connectors were available for $59.99 i put off that purchase.

we will be soon rearranging the home meaning the Wii has to be moved. i ordered the Component connector "kit" which is compatible with a half dozen games consoles including the Wii for $9.47 from Amazon.com ...

For me, playing my Wii (if I was the Wii playing sort) for 2 years in HD rather than SD would have been worth the premium. I feel the same about the convenience of L2 charging. So, I'd go ahead with either the upgrade or one of the lower priced wall mounts before settling for L1, especially since the quantities are apparently not there for competition to lower EVSE prices in the near term. Instead they've been increasing.

actually i had always intended to get the cable but knew i could get it cheaper. i did not actively shop around for it. i just kept my eye out on the going price and eventually it just slipped my mind. its not like Wii can really use high def anyway.

 

[dbassett]

My commute is around 30 miles plus errands and trips out to lunch adding up to 1000 miles per month. We have been using the provided L1 for a few months and never had an issue. We have even forgotten to plug it in a few nights and have been fine the next day.

In addition to the reduced cost, it is nice to be able to tell people that "I just plug it into the wall" and point to the nearest 120 outlet. Most people are, um, shocked.

 

[Ingineer]

One point to remind everyone of, not only is level 2 (240v) charging faster, but it wastes less electricity. Also, it does NOT "wear out" the battery pack faster as a few people have asked. Nissan has went on-record with this fact as well.

If you are taking short trips, you may well be able to live with level 1, but if you don't at least have the level 2 capability, there may be a few occasions where you will have to leave your Leaf home!

-Phil

 

[Stanton]

One point to remind everyone of, not only is level 2 (240v) charging faster, but it wastes less electricity. Also, it does NOT "wear out" the battery pack faster as a few people have asked. Nissan has went on-record with this fact as well.

If you are taking short trips, you may well be able to live with level 1, but if you don't at least have the level 2 capability, there may be a few occasions where you will have to leave your Leaf home!

-Phil

+1. This is what I tell everyone who asks me about charging now (don't waste your time with L1).

 

[smkettner]

While L1 is probably not the best permanent solution don't panic and pay any price to have L2 immediate. Especially the AV install. Nothing wrong to get the car into the garage an use L1 while you sort out what L2 system best suits your needs. JMHO

 

[Ingineer]

Also, if you have some sort of 240v outlet (any kind) or can retrofit one, 240V Level 2 (12A) will only cost you $259 out the door with the upgrade. You'll probably save that much in electricity each year!

-Phil

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

120 volt outlets are not all created equal. They run the gamut from a single heavy duty outlet wired to the side terminals with #12 wire on a dedicated circuit with a 20 amp breaker down to the pathetic case of multiple el cheapo outlets strung together "stabbed" into the backs with #14 wire on a 15 amp breaker. Putting a sustained heavy load appliance on the latter is not good. Nissan probably recommends against regular usage of the 120 charger since this difference is not always apparent to the end user.

 

[vatavian]

On the "Nissan does not recommend" topic, one possible reason is that they don't want people hearing about how long it takes to charge on L1.
People will ask how long it takes to charge, so be sure to tell them that most drivers charge theirs more than twice as quickly.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, not all outlets are up to the task of providing 12A continuously, and many of them are marginal at best! The best advice if you are going to charge at 120v, is to feel for heat anywhere in the system after charging for at least 30 minutes. If anything is getting too warm (hotter than comfortable), that's a clear indication to stop immediately! Be sure to check ALL outlets in the area for heat, not just the one in use. It's especially important for those on adjacent walls, as these may be part of a "daisy chain". Don't forget to also feel the breakers too. If you have access to a AC volt meter, this is even better; simply measure the voltage at the outlet while charging. If it's lower than 105v, I would definitely have the system checked immediately!

It's very rare to find a 240v outlet that's less than 20A, and one that's not on a dedicated circuit, so this is going to automatically be much safer.

-Phil

 

[yoyofella]

I live in an apartment with a 110V outlet in the carport that the landlord has agreed to let me use to charge for $50/month. My commute is about 45miles R/T, all highway.

Going with just the EVSE works well for me so far. In the 7 months since I bought the car, I've racked up almost 10,000 miles, nearly 95% of the charging is done in the carport, and 5% from ChargePoint.

 

[surfingslovak]

Going with just the EVSE works well for me so far. In the 7 months since I bought the car, I've racked up almost 10,000 miles, nearly 95% of the charging is done in the carport, and 5% from ChargePoint.

That's impressive! Hats off to you.

 

[kg4bec]

At first I thought I could get by with 110v L1 charging but I do enough side trips --and sometimes make excuses to drive-- that the L2 charger became a necessity. You may find, as I did, that the car is so much fun to drive that you just drive it more anyway.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Cheers, Bert

 

[myev]

I've been charging with a dedicated outlet on 120 and it's never taken more than 12 hours to get to 80%. It's usually starting from 2 or 3 bars, and this is even in the Canadian winter climate. 9 or 10 hours is typical.

Steve

 

[Nubo]

Yes, not all outlets are up to the task of providing 12A continuously, and many of them are marginal at best! The best advice if you are going to charge at 120v, is to feel for heat anywhere in the system after charging for at least 30 minutes. If anything is getting too warm (hotter than comfortable), that's a clear indication to stop immediately! Be sure to check ALL outlets in the area for heat, not just the one in use. It's especially important for those on adjacent walls, as these may be part of a "daisy chain". Don't forget to also feel the breakers too. If you have access to a AC volt meter, this is even better; simply measure the voltage at the outlet while charging. If it's lower than 105v, I would definitely have the system checked immediately!

It's very rare to find a 240v outlet that's less than 20A, and one that's not on a dedicated circuit, so this is going to automatically be much safer.

-Phil

My 120 outlet drops from 124.1 to 117.6 under the charger load. Is this reasonably healthy?

 

[smkettner]

124 to 117 with just 12a seems like a lot. Is the wire #14 or #12? How many feet from the main box?
I assume the drop is in the house wire and not at the main box.
I would at least remove the outlets in the string and replace with side wire outlets if they are the stab style.
If wire is an easy pull you may as well add a 240v circuit.

 

[Ingineer]

My 120 outlet drops from 124.1 to 117.6 under the charger load. Is this reasonably healthy?

6.5v drop is not too terribly bad, but it really depends on whether it's one or two connections causing it all, or a lot of wire loss spread out over a large area. Measure another outlet on a different circuit before and after charging to see how much of it is that circuit, as long runs to your houses utility transformer can add some as well. When it gets over 10, then I'd be concerned and start to look for things getting hot. Just the same, feel your outlets as I describe above after charging for at least 30 minutes. Heat will be telling!

-Phil

 

[Nubo]

Thanks for the tips. Took a quick look this morning and the outlet is indeed one of the stab-in types, and is paralleled (with wire nuts) off of the circuit which continues downstream. The circuit is part of a dual 20-amp pair that trip together. Doesn't appear to be much of a load on those circuits; a few lighting fixtures which are all CFLs; and a couple of unused plugs. The only exception appears to be the garage door opener which I'm pretty sure is downstream. There have been no circuit trips in the 3 weeks I've been charging. Will have to look further to see which of the fixtures/plugs are on which side of the ganged breaker. None of the switches or plugs seems hot. Slight warmth at the evse plug.

The wires and plug do not look to have been overheated. Not sure of the gauge; looks like 12 to me. I'll be picking up a wire gauge and a new side-terminal plug today and cleaning up any joins I can find upstream of the plug to see if I can reduce the voltage drop.

As soon as the state rebate arrives it will go towards getting a dedicated 240 circuit, and see about converting this plug to a dedicated 20 amp circuit as the backup.

Funny, I always thought the stab-in method was superior. I guess I thought that because looping the wire around the screw terminals always seemed kind of crude to me. But thinking about it I see now where the screw terminal is going to have a lot more and firmer contact...

 

[smkettner]

From my perspective of owning some older rentals (built '50s&'60s) I have seen many stab connections overheated with black areas and some overheated insulation. Still work fine but a few were a bit scary when replaced. Over time and vacancy I have replaced all with back wire clamp or side wire receptacles. I have had several dead circuits from stab connections that lose the connection.

Never any trouble when connection is tightened with a screw. I just don't like the stab connections even if it meets general building standards.

BTW if it is a 20a breaker it must be #12 wire. I think code says 3% voltage drop max and you are exceeding that amount.
To lose that voltage in #12 wire the circuit would be over 175' so any shorter tells me the drop is in the connections.