Negative Leaf article by LA newspaper editor

[SharonaLA]

Bummer article from Rob Eshman of the Jewish Journal in Los Angeles. He dislikes his Leaf. Wish I knew what to say to him...

http://www.jewishjournal.com/rob_eshman/article/my_2011_nissan_solyndra_20111026/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"October 26, 2011
Opinion: My 2011 Nissan Solyndra

By Rob Eshman

Last June, I wrote about my initial love/hate affair with Nissan’s all-electric production car. Since then, people keep asking me how I like my Leaf.

Here’s what I tell them: I am ready to turn over a new Leaf — my own."

 

[thankyouOB]

somebody left this:

You really shouldnt buy a car you dont want to learn how to drive.
You cant just drive this like an ICE and expect to get the same results. You have to drive it like an EV, unless you want to get bad mileage.
stop whining.

 

[TonyWilliams]

While he clearly made mistakes that we know from this forum are verboten; windows down uses MORE power at freeway speeds, not less than a/c. Also, believing the guessOmeter.

But, 100% agree with this:

"So, here’s my advice to any company trying to push the next new thing to save the environment: If you want to save the world, lose the hype."

My wife has a coworker who ordered the car, then left it as an orphan yesterday, when she found out it didn't really go 100 miles.

 

[mwalsh]

He sounds like a complete dip. If he's only getting 60 miles a charge, he must really be driving it wrong. And I mean REALLY wrong.

UNLESS he's a new bars guy and doesn't realize he's got a reserve? Which I suppose is the flip side of the "running out with old bars" discussion.

 

[LKK]

In regards to the L2 charger; "I balked when the actual estimate came in close to $6,000." How does he charge?? Does he use the L1 charger and drive every other day? Something sound fishy.

 

[TomT]

Well, it IS hard to disagree with many of the points he made, from his standpoint. It is not the right car for everyone and he is one of those people for which it is not right...
And Nissan IS doing themselves and everyone else a disservice by still sticking to the 100 mile claim... Use the EPA 73 mile estimate and people like him would likely be much happier. Under promise and over deliver is always a good mantra.

Bummer article from Rob Eshman of the Jewish Journal in Los Angeles. He dislikes his Leaf. Wish I knew what to say to him...

 

[adric22]

While he clearly made mistakes that we know from this forum are verboten; windows down uses MORE power at freeway speeds, not less than a/c. Also, believing the guessOmeter.

I'm not convinced of this. I have observed lower energy draw at 60 mph by keeping the windows down and the A/C turned off. I know in an ICE car this has been proven untrue, but I think the A/C energy draw in an EV is more.

I had planned to do some scientific experiments to determine exactly what the difference was but never got a chance and now Summer is gone and it is cold outside. So I guess next Summer I'll try again.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about days where the temperature was 105 degrees outside. If it is 75 or 80 degrees outside, I'm sure the A/C cycles on and off and probably doesn't draw nearly as much power.

 

[thankyouOB]

driving in coastal LA, I dont see a significant benefit to not using AC.
I do see that it affects the estimate range, but not what happens when I test it on my daily commute.
of course, that is judging on range bars. I dont have the SOC meter.

but I get to test a 75-mile trip today; only if i cant find one of the very few spots with 110-volt at work.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

...You can't just drive this like an ICE and expect to get the same results.

It seems this is at the root of the problem. Jumping on the freeway and blasting along with the rest of the traffic over the hills to Simi was a sure formula for failure. The continual climbing on either freeway would have the GOM showing a very low remaining mileage. Compound that with no allowance for the "hidden reserve" and no wonder he pulled over for a charge. Half the fun -- and responsibility -- of owning any new car is learning its strengths and limitations.

And Nissan IS doing themselves and everyone else a disservice by still sticking to the 100 mile claim... Use the EPA 73 mile estimate and people like him would likely be much happier. Under promise and over deliver is always a good mantra.

+2

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm not convinced of this.....
Keep in mind that I'm talking about days where the temperature was 105 degrees outside. If it is 75 or 80 degrees outside, I'm sure the A/C cycles on and off and probably doesn't draw nearly as much power.

Not much 105F in coastal California.

 

[JimSouCal]

He sounds like a complete dip.

Sort of. Perhaps thinking with expectations and mental models that don't quite fit the reality at hand. Without much research, and thought, one could skim the marketing hype and arrive in such a conundrum.

As others have mentioned, the LEAF is not for everyone.

For most of us, it is wonderful.

 

[malloryk]

The car is not for everyone. But I am really getting tired of people whining "Nissan promised 100 miles." No, they never did. They've been very clear this whole time the conditions needed to achieve 100 miles and what the range can actually be in real-world driving. Some people only want to hear what they want to hear.

 

[Volusiano]

The car is not for everyone. But I am really getting tired of people whining "Nissan promised 100 miles." No, they never did. They've been very clear this whole time the conditions needed to achieve 100 miles and what the range can actually be in real-world driving. Some people only want to hear what they want to hear.

I agree with this. When I was at the Nissan EV Drive event last year, as part of their tour, they clearly made it a point to say that your mileage range between 70 to 100 miles, depending on how you drive. The only surprise I found later was their recommended charge rate of 80%. But that's not a limitation. You can still charge to 100% whenever you need it. Besides, anyone who actually purchased or leased a Leaf would have had to sign papers up their yin/yang saying that they understand that 100 miles range is not always achievable. So this is truly the case of people only wanting to hear what they want to hear. I suspect when he asked the girl or the salesman about the range, the answer was probably "UP to 100 miles". But he didn't hear the "UP to" part because he only wanted to hear the 100 miles part.

 

[adric22]

My biggest complaint with the article is when he says this:

Nissan must be feeling some backlash now, as well. Leafs — which the company had expected to sell out — are piling up on dealer lots like, well, fallen leaves.

Where is this happening? In the Dallas/Ft.Worth area it is still considered a 6 month wait to get a Leaf. Where are they piling up on dealer lots?

 

[TomT]

It does seem like a bit of hyperbole but perhaps he is referring to the reports of orphans at some dealers on occasion...

Where are they piling up on dealer lots?

 

[waitingforaleaf]

It does seem like a bit of hyperbole but perhaps he is referring to the reports of orphans at some dealers on occasion...

Where are they piling up on dealer lots?

Well, around here, the orphans may have piled up because the local dealers wanted anywhere from 3k to 10k over MSRP for orphans. Not the strategy that you would expect orphans to go flying off dealer lots, though if they can be believed, some buyers DID pay that much for one...

Not so sure if orphans are still going for such a premium lately though (those prices were back in March/April after the tsunami had delayed shipments).

 

[SteveInSeattle]

When people say they are only getting 58, for example, it has no validity UNLESS they at least went into turtle mode... otherwise they don't know what the remaining range actually is. Anyway, the Leaf is not for everyone and the truth is if he decided to sell it he could make a profit given his subsidized price of 22K.

The real question of popularity would be measured by how many are traded back in or on the used market... I don't see too many used ones that aren't profiteers.

 

[leafkabob]

When people say they are only getting 58, for example, it has no validity UNLESS they at least went into turtle mode... otherwise they don't know what the remaining range actually is.

You nailed it. I have noticed that the folks that really push their daily range are the ones who really know how far they can go. I only have a 12 RT mile commute, and my wife has a 20 mile RT. We have not had the occasion or the need to really push to see how far we can go. So I honestly don't know what my range is. But I have tons of respect for those that have long commutes and get into the garage at the end of the day with low battery warning. Those are the people with range credibility.

 

[adric22]

You nailed it. I have noticed that the folks that really push their daily range are the ones who really know how far they can go. I only have a 12 RT mile commute, and my wife has a 20 mile RT. We have not had the occasion or the need to really push to see how far we can go. So I honestly don't know what my range is. But I have tons of respect for those that have long commutes and get into the garage at the end of the day with low battery warning. Those are the people with range credibility.

I'm in pretty much the same situation as you for daily commutes, although we've done a few trips that are at the limit of the range. I would not want to be in that situation where a person comes home every day with a low battery warning. That is a problem because the car's range will decline over time not to mention the possibility of a detour.

 

[DeaneG]

Before buying our Leaf, I read the small hard print myself, and decided that it was a 50 mile roundtrip car when charged to 80%. That's about the way it has worked out for me, and I'm OK with it. On weekends when I'm mostly tooling around surface streets, it will go quite a bit farther, and that's nice to see.

It's all a matter of expectations, and Nissan has not been front and center with setting them properly for the average get-in-and-drive owner.