Nissan Engineering Team Visit Dec. 3rd: Recap

[Brightonuk]

I really don't want to let this PV roof discussion hijack this very useful thread about Leaf engineering team visit.

Agreed it was intended that this thread was to put forward three items for discussion not to debate the merit of any one suggestion.

gascant:
Likes: Smooth, rapid acceleration; LED headlights; voice recognition system
Suggested improvements: Accurate SOC Meter, Driver's personal storage space, paint/finish

Keep it on track simple and to the point

 

[surfingslovak]

Not sure why all the negative comment about the solar roof concept, as we all know this is something we'll eventually get (hopefully sooner rather than later).

I don't think that the comment was meant in a negative way. Solar roof is one of the first things I posted about on the forum and the comments prompted me to research it further. It looks like there would be fair amount of interest in it, even with the low ROI. Based on what I've heard and read, a larger panel covering most or all of the roof, could help offset A/C and possibly some heater use. It would also help in the storage scenario you mentioned. There is a reportedly quite successful third-party add-on for the Prius.

In any case, I put it on the list (item 3-9) I sent Kim in preparation for the December meeting. I think he might have picked up on it earlier as well.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Not sure why all the negative comment about the solar roof concept, as we all know this is something we'll eventually get (hopefully sooner rather than later).

I don't think that the comment was meant in a negative way. Solar roof is one of the first things I posted about on the forum and the comments prompted me to research it further. It looks like there would be fair amount of interest in it, even with the low ROI. Based on what I've heard and read, a larger panel covering most or all of the roof, could help offset A/C and possibly some heater use. It would also help in the storage scenario you mentioned. There is a reportedly quite successful third-party add-on for the Prius.

In any case, I put on the list (item 3-9) I sent Kim in preparation for the December meeting. I think he might have picked up on it earlier as well.

Solar panels on the vehicle won't do much toward motive energy, but are very useful for comfort if they are large enough to run the vent fan, or at 200+ watts they could run minimal air conditiong or heating that will keep the cabin much more comfortable when you get in it and reduce the energy used from the traction battery used for climate control when you're driving. The most economic / effective use of this is just to run the vent fan on low or medium when the car is parked on a hot summer day. That can reduce the internal temperature from say 130 or 140 degrees on the hottest days to maybe 107, assuming it's 100 outside. Yes, I made up all the numbers, but it would certainly make at least a 20 degree difference and likely more on the hottest days. I thought the solar panels were a bit silly until my Prius 12V battery started going dead if I didn't drive it enough and the cabin cooling by running the vent fan on the solar panel is a great feature. The aux batteries aren't big enough to run the vent fan for hours while you are parked. You may have to clean the cabin air filter a little more often...

 

[EricBayArea]

anyways, I really don't want to let this PV roof discussion hijack this very useful thread about Leaf engineering team visit.

+1

 

[cwerdna]

anyways, I really don't want to let this PV roof discussion hijack this very useful thread about Leaf engineering team visit.

+1

I've started another thread to discuss the merits, uses, issues, etc. of a large solar panel/roof at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Discuss everything over there to keep this thread on topic.

 

[linkim]

I've started another thread to discuss the merits, uses, issues, etc. of a large solar panel/roof at viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6316. Discuss everything over there to keep this thread on topic.

Thanks cwerdna for redirecting the discussion to a separate thread. The topic is probably not of high priority for our discussion with Nissan at this time. But perhaps when thin film solar gets very low cost and looks like the paint job on the LEAF, then we can look for a viable product.

Keep the ideas for improvements coming. There have been about 3 dozen responses so far which we are trying to distill into something to discuss.

Thanks everyone,

Kim

 

[gascant]

The SF BayLEAFs are arranging a meeting on December 3rd with members of the LEAF Engineering team from Japan. The purpose is to provide direct feedback to Nissan regarding our experiences with the car. It's also a forum for providing suggestions for improvements in both the LEAF and future Nissan EV's. Some (working prototypes) of these will be demonstrated by MNL forum members (e.g., the modified EVSE that provides full Level 2 charging). The exact time and location are still to be determined. We hope to have an impressive turnout of owners and LEAFs to demonstrate our passion for helping EVs be commercially successful.

The meeting is now confirmed for December 3rd. It's looking like Google (in Mountain View) will be our host, too. We'll be compiling responses and posting here, along with preparing some PowerPoint files to present. Watch for further updates.

Where can we all park?
COuld you check with your Google contact if folks arriving for this meeting are allowed to use Google's L2 chargers onsite?

Thx.

Charging will be available on site--I believe that Google is making 6 L2 charging stations available to us. Details will be posted as we get a little closer to the event. One of our members who works there will organize a "parade" to the designated stations as he has to activate them individually with his own card. There are also several members that live close by that would be willing to host charging.

 

[Aeolus]

Likes: just got it and I love it, the handling, acceleration, comfort, size, et cetera
Wants: The user interface could be much, much better at every level. A series of focus groups with end users is really needed to track dozens of improvements including integration with other apps and devices.

 

[GoingGreener]

Adding one more "Want":

Can the "Door Unlock/Lock" Button on the driver's and front passenger's doors be backlit?

Because those buttons are not backlit, dropping off passengers at night requires us to turn on an interior light to locate that button. Other controls like the driver's window button and the knob to adjust the left/right side exterior mirror are backlit now. But we definitely use the door unlock/lock controls more often than needing to open windows and adjust exterior mirrors at night.

Thanks!

 

[LEAFfan]

Adding one more "Want":
Can the "Door Unlock/Lock" Button on the driver's and front passenger's doors be backlit?
Because those buttons are not backlit, dropping off passengers at night requires us to turn on an interior light to locate that button. Other controls like the driver's window button and the knob to adjust the left/right side exterior mirror are backlit now. But we definitely use the door unlock/lock controls more often than needing to open windows and adjust exterior mirrors at night.
Thanks!

I agree, it would be easier, but after you've had your LEAF awhile, you will be able to push the correct button 100% of the time in the dark. I can feel it really easily now and know it is the first one after the 'auto down' with 'lock' just behind it.

 

[GoingGreener]

I think that's the point. We shouldn't need to do anything extra like "feel for" a much-used, important safety button as "Lock and Unlock"...whether it's me, as the primary driver, or my spouse or college child on school break, occassional drivers of the Leaf. Any driver should be able to spot it, especially when it's dark out, and press the exact spot.

Hopefully, it can be an easy and sensible improvement that Nissan will consider. Living in the city, there are times when you want to be safe and lock the car before driving off and reaching 15mph for the auto lock to kick in. At other times, it is the convenience issue of unlocking to let passengers off when it's dark out.

And it'd be nice if Homelink made their buttons with a tiny bit of backlight too... but can live with that one more.

 

[BlueSL]

Nissan needs to know that Carwings is not currently up to the job of identifying charging stations. The updates are almost non-existent and there is plenty of data out there. I cannot believe that Chargepoint does not feed Nissan its install database. Could this be true?

Nissan seems to think that all it needs to do is build the car, and the rest of the equation (like L2 and L3 availability and sensible utility rate structures) will be taken care of by others. That is naive and short-sighted, IMO.

Want the EV revolution to beat a path to your door, Nissan? Then identify the obstacles and overcome them. Don't assume others will do it for you.

 

[LEAFfan]

I haven't seen this one yet: Can you ask them if there is a way to make the Cruise's default 'ON' instead of having to turn it on (push the button) EVERY time the car is started? If not, maybe they can change it for the newer models.

 

[gascant]

I haven't seen this one yet: Can you ask them if there is a way to make the Cruise's default 'ON' instead of having to turn it on (push the button) EVERY time the car is started? If not, maybe they can change it for the newer models.

That's an interesting one...would you have them retain the memory as well? Or just have it on so you can set it? Is there another car out there that does this?

 

[LEAFfan]

I haven't seen this one yet: Can you ask them if there is a way to make the Cruise's default 'ON' instead of having to turn it on (push the button) EVERY time the car is started? If not, maybe they can change it for the newer models.

That's an interesting one...would you have them retain the memory as well? Or just have it on so you can set it? Is there another car out there that does this?

No, no need to retain the memory because I like to set it as it depends on my speed. My Honda Civic GX always left it on and I never had to touch the switch. I have found with the LEAF that better m/kW h is obtained with using it at 38 or below.

 

[davewill]

That's an interesting one...would you have them retain the memory as well? Or just have it on so you can set it? Is there another car out there that does this?

Retaining the last state works for me. Many cars do it much simpler and have a mechanical toggle switch which stays in the position you left it in. BTW, the timer override needs to be the same way and stay ON until I turn it back OFF.

 

[waidy]

Nissan needs to know that Carwings is not currently up to the job of identifying charging stations. The updates are almost non-existent and there is plenty of data out there. I cannot believe that Chargepoint does not feed Nissan its install database. Could this be true?

I totally agree with you that Nissan's Carwings need lots of improvements. Being able to get up-to-date information on chargers around you should be high up in their priority list; as to prevent "out of juice" situation and decrease range anxiety. I brought up the issue of Carwings' "charger locator information feed" with Coulomb and found the outdated charger locations is the issue of Nissan.

Here is the data flow (cut and paste from an authority at Coulomb):

The data flow is

• 
  1. Real time API feed from Coulomb to Navtec continuously updates in real time. This has been available for a year now.
  2. Navtec aggregates with all other POI info and passes to Zenren (they have been on a multi month cycle, but are now moving to realtime API)
  3. Zenren does a lot of validation of the total POI data base (not needed for ChargePoints) and updates the Nissan GDC for a total of a 6+ month cycle
  4. The GDC takes in the static data and makes it available to Carwings.
  5. NNA is working to shorten the existing cycle from 6+mo to 3-4 months.

What's preventing improvement

• 
  1. While Navtec is moving to real time API, we are not aware that Zenren is doing the same
  2. Coulomb has offered a direct feed to the GDC bypassing Navtec and Zenren, but Nissan Japan appear to have no way to accept it or are prevented from doing so for contractual reasons.
  3. it's not clear that Nissan Japan fully understands the frustration of the Leaf drivers so that they might take exceptional steps to fix the problem quickly

Nissan NA totally "gets it" and is as frustrated as you are. They appear to be limited by Nissan Japans sense of urgency (lack thereof).

As you see from the bullet #5 above, 3-4 months is too long. We need real time information. IMHO, we ought to invite a Coulomb ChargePoint guy to the Dec 3 meeting so this problem can be solved FACE-to-FACE.

 

[davewill]

As you see from the bullet #5 above, 3-4 months is too long. We need real time information. IMHO, we ought to invite a Coulomb ChargePoint guy to the Dec 3 meeting so this problem can be solved FACE-to-FACE.

It's frustrating that they did the engineering to keep the nav in the car up to date, but can't get the backend together. My guess is that they've both done a better job on the data in Japan, and that the infrastructure is more dense.

 

[TomT]

Won't happen... Again, our stupid U.S. liability laws and tort system.

I haven't seen this one yet: Can you ask them if there is a way to make the Cruise's default 'ON' instead of having to turn it on (push the button) EVERY time the car is started? If not, maybe they can change it for the newer models.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

Likes:
- Well, 100% electric - way to go!

- Buying process, I know there's have been a lot of complaints, but I think it is a great idea to make dealers compete for buyers and not vice versa, so, fix the process, don't ditch it please!

- Performance, size, low maintenance.

Desired improvements:
- add power seats/rear-view mirror control (and maybe wheel position as well) and memory. We have switched from my wife's and mine car notion to long range/short range cars, so it is so inconvenient when we need to switch cars few times daily and have to adjust seats/mirror position, It would be so nice if you can detect a key fob and adjust controls according to the fob, so when my wife enters the car, seat/mirrors automatically adjust for her, when I enter the car using my fob, seat and mirrors adjust to my position.

- DITCH the nav unit... redesign it, make it more user-friendly/better quality. There's soo many things that I don't like about it... non-intuitive UI, have to hit Ok EVERY time, screen position is awful - it is too low and not protected from the sun by any means - if sun shines from the right-rear, it's impossible to see, stupid route calculator - can't use available traffic/road closure info, sound quality is awful, won't allow the passenger enter address when moving, clock is very inaccurate (mine went back 10 minutes in 5 months), AC does not give you enough control (heater status, can't run AC without heater) hands-free dialing is not really a hands-free, it asks to choose the number from the screen. more versatile charging/climate control timers, timer-based climate control should be adjustable, provide something else then factory-set temperature...The only thing I like about Nav unit is voice recognition/voice quality, google maps integration and rearview camera guides.

- more accessories/options - bike hitch, spare tire, quality fabric in dark colors/leather, how about a trailer with generator?

- head rests on the back are blocking the view, it should be smaller, like in UK Leafs...

- Dash - please remove useless (for driving) tree indicator from prime dash real estate near speedometer. real SOC should be put in there instead of trees, maybe with smaller version of regen/power meter