Nissan's Included L1 (120v) EVSE

[GaslessInSeattle]

This turned into to a decent "how to prolong batt pack capacity" thread. Too bad you can't tell that from the title!

I was thinking the same thing, so in an attempt to not veer off topic more, I summarized some of what I've concluded from the discussion here over on the "80% club" thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2265&start=150

I am very curious to see over time how the battery pack handles the 100% & 80% L2 charging that some people say they will doing vs the 100% and 80% L1 charging that some are sticking with. the variables are a bit mind boggling, I do wonder if a clear pattern will emerge. No matter how gentle the L2 charging actually is, I think this thread is an example of the tendency for some folks to feel that more gentle is even better.

Seems like we all need to create benchmarks for our current capacity, pick a 70 mile loop that we can periodically clock to see how the capacity is holding up, it would at least have some consistent factors like elevation. We'd need to stick to a relatively constant speed and note the temperature etc. hmm, a new topic for a new thread...

g

 

[Rat]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it if so. Until I get the Blink unit installed I am on L1 only. Today (day 3 of ownership) the car told me it will take 11 hours to charge to 80% on L1. My question is whether to start before midnight to ensure charging will be done on time or wait until midnight to get the maximum TOU rate advantage. I am planning to start at midnight largely because I don't expect to use the car early in the morning anyway. I'm retired and don't have a regular commute. The TOU rates here are 12:00 AM - 7:00 AM off peak (best) and partial peak on either side of that. So if I start early or let it go late, I still get the same rate, but what I don't know is whether the charging rate is faster when the battery is at a lower charge level. I suspect it might be, thus I would draw more current in the first hour than the last, and thus would be best off waiting to start until off peak, i.e. midnight. I doubt it will make much difference, but it would be useful to know. I also have the option of just pulling the plug at 7:00 AM since I don't expect to need even the 80% charge tomorrow, but there is controversy in another thread as to whether to leave the battery charged less than 80% for extended periods. Any advice or thoughts?

 

[johnr]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it if so. Until I get the Blink unit installed I am on L1 only. Today (day 3 of ownership) the car told me it will take 11 hours to charge to 80% on L1. My question is whether to start before midnight to ensure charging will be done on time or wait until midnight to get the maximum TOU rate advantage. I am planning to start at midnight largely because I don't expect to use the car early in the morning anyway. I'm retired and don't have a regular commute. The TOU rates here are 12:00 AM - 7:00 AM off peak (best) and partial peak on either side of that. So if I start early or let it go late, I still get the same rate, but what I don't know is whether the charging rate is faster when the battery is at a lower charge level. I suspect it might be, thus I would draw more current in the first hour than the last, and thus would be best off waiting to start until off peak, i.e. midnight. I doubt it will make much difference, but it would be useful to know. I also have the option of just pulling the plug at 7:00 AM since I don't expect to need even the 80% charge tomorrow, but there is controversy in another thread as to whether to leave the battery charged less than 80% for extended periods. Any advice or thoughts?

Based on my experience it seems to go at full power until the final hour when it slows down a bit. But I'm not really sure as I haven't actually tested it yet. You could tell for sure with a kill-a-watt meter.

 

[smkettner]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it if so. Until I get the Blink unit installed I am on L1 only. Today (day 3 of ownership) the car told me it will take 11 hours to charge to 80% on L1. My question is whether to start before midnight to ensure charging will be done on time or wait until midnight to get the maximum TOU rate advantage. I am planning to start at midnight largely because I don't expect to use the car early in the morning anyway. I'm retired and don't have a regular commute. The TOU rates here are 12:00 AM - 7:00 AM off peak (best) and partial peak on either side of that. So if I start early or let it go late, I still get the same rate, but what I don't know is whether the charging rate is faster when the battery is at a lower charge level. I suspect it might be, thus I would draw more current in the first hour than the last, and thus would be best off waiting to start until off peak, i.e. midnight. I doubt it will make much difference, but it would be useful to know. I also have the option of just pulling the plug at 7:00 AM since I don't expect to need even the 80% charge tomorrow, but there is controversy in another thread as to whether to leave the battery charged less than 80% for extended periods. Any advice or thoughts?

I would start it by 10p and I am sure it will still be drawing max at 7a. I might be wrong but L1 would seem to taper later in the cycle as it charges at about 1/3 the 240v rate. Anyway it is just pennies, just get it charged already.
I have been on L1 for three weeks now but no TOU to worry about.

 

[Herm]

Charging from whatever you have now to 80% should be at a constant power level, the final 20%, from 80-100% will take longer and most of that probably after 90%. Then again it may all be at the same level, L1 charging is extremely gentle, L3 is where you will notice the different charging rates, if anyone ever tries it.

Someone must have posted a full L1 charge kill-a-watt graph... its all that it can record.

 

[Herm]

Seems like we all need to create benchmarks for our current capacity, pick a 70 mile loop that we can periodically clock to see how the capacity is holding up, it would at least have some consistent factors like elevation. We'd need to stick to a relatively constant speed and note the temperature etc. hmm, a new topic for a new thread...

g

Elevation could be ignored if you stopped and started at the same place.. in any case the current bar graph is too coarse to be useful. Wait for an aftermarket device or a Nissan software upgrade. Just do a hwy run at midnight when the traffic is light, go out 30 miles using the cruise control at 65mph, turn back and head home, record power used by the killawatt to recharge the battery to 100%.. winds should cancel out too.

It probably would take about 8-10 years to notice a degradation.. so there is no need to do weekly checks

 

[garygid]

1. Yes, charging rate at L1 or L2 is essentially constant until the last hour or half-hour. So "more" is not used at the start, but less is used near the end.

2. Leaving the car charged anywhere from 40% to 80% for exrended periods should be fine.

3. A few days, or a week, is not an "extended time".

4. Consider getting your L1 EVSE upgraded to 240v, then your 12-hour charge drops to 6 hours, solving your problems of time and amount of charge.

 

[hill]

. . . . . . . . . snip 4. Consider getting your L1 EVSE upgraded to 240v, then your 12-hour charge drops to 6 hours, solving your problems of time and amount of charge.

That should maybe be 15%-20% less than 6 hours, with the REV II pEEf mod - right?

 

[davewill]

That should maybe be 15%-20% less than 6 hours, with the REV II pEEf mod - right?

Where in the heck did the term "pEEf" come into play, and what does it stand for? I must have missed it's introduction. I'm suddenly seeing it all over the board.

 

[GeekEV]

It's Ingineer's handle over on the Prius Chat forums (and possibly elsewhere).

 

[Rat]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it if so. Until I get the Blink unit installed I am on L1 only. Today (day 3 of ownership) the car told me it will take 11 hours to charge to 80% on L1. My question is whether to start before midnight to ensure charging will be done on time or wait until midnight to get the maximum TOU rate advantage. I am planning to start at midnight largely because I don't expect to use the car early in the morning anyway. I'm retired and don't have a regular commute. The TOU rates here are 12:00 AM - 7:00 AM off peak (best) and partial peak on either side of that. So if I start early or let it go late, I still get the same rate, but what I don't know is whether the charging rate is faster when the battery is at a lower charge level. I suspect it might be, thus I would draw more current in the first hour than the last, and thus would be best off waiting to start until off peak, i.e. midnight. I doubt it will make much difference, but it would be useful to know. I also have the option of just pulling the plug at 7:00 AM since I don't expect to need even the 80% charge tomorrow, but there is controversy in another thread as to whether to leave the battery charged less than 80% for extended periods. Any advice or thoughts?

I would start it by 10p and I am sure it will still be drawing max at 7a. I might be wrong but L1 would seem to taper later in the cycle as it charges at about 1/3 the 240v rate. Anyway it is just pennies, just get it charged already.
I have been on L1 for three weeks now but no TOU to worry about.

I started charging around 9:15 pm, then when I checked it at 10:35 or so the estimated charging time had dropped by 2 hours, which led me to think the portal info was overestimating charging time, so I unplugged and replugged to put it back on timer (80% from midnight to 7AM). When I checked it at 6AM it was at 75% and by 7:00 it had topped off at 83% and had stopped charging. So it took a bit over 8 hours to charge to 80% when the estimate was 11 hours. This is reassuring. I should have no trouble getting it charged to the desired level and almost always within off peak rates; the time estimates appear to be too conservative, probably intentionally so. Of course this will all go away as an issue when I get the Blink.

 

[mgoleta]

11hr charge estimate to 80% at L1 actually charges in about 8 hours. Sounds typical from what I have seen with my car. The L1 10 to 11 hr estimate has been consistently 7-8 hours actual. I am now typically charging every other day when the L1 charge estimate reaches around 10 to 11 hours. I can easily fully charge at work the majority of the time before heading home.

 

[mgoleta]

BTW, the power draw while L1 charging on my car has been fairly uniform over the entire 8 hours charge cycle at ~1.4KW give or take a few percent.

 

[garygid]

Before the firmware update, charging from 1 bar to 80% (or 100%) charged "much" of the battery, and took closer to the estimates (which might be leaving time for "equalization").

After the firmware Upgrade, charging from 1 bar to whatever does not have so much to charge, so it gets done noticably faster. Since part of the "low end" of the battery "charge" is now hidden BELOW the zero-bar mark, it might APPEAR that you are charging from "1 bar" (weaker bar) to 80%, but that is not the same amount of charging as was needed for the old "1 BAR" (stronger BAR).

 

[smkettner]

I started charging around 9:15 pm, then when I checked it at 10:35 or so the estimated charging time had dropped by 2 hours, which led me to think the portal info was overestimating charging time, so I unplugged and replugged to put it back on timer (80% from midnight to 7AM). When I checked it at 6AM it was at 75% and by 7:00 it had topped off at 83% and had stopped charging. So it took a bit over 8 hours to charge to 80% when the estimate was 11 hours. This is reassuring. I should have no trouble getting it charged to the desired level and almost always within off peak rates; the time estimates appear to be too conservative, probably intentionally so. Of course this will all go away as an issue when I get the Blink.

All things considered you could probably set the timer at 12a to 7a and be good to go.

I have mine just set to finish at 7:10a and Leaf knows when to start. L1 only, no TOU yet.

 

[nogajim]

I have a question about how dedicated my L1 circuit should be.

I was able to purchase an orphan LEAF on short notice and charged it last night in my garage. I have a single 20A circuit there. Currently there are two garage door openers, which each draw 5 amps and a freezer, which draws 3 amps and is plugged into the only wall outlet. Last night I plugged the L1 into a garage door outlet, hoping it was on a separate circuit. My questions are, can I plug in the same outlet as the freezer? I can avoid charging when someone is going to use the door opener, or would I be best off just moving the freezer until I get rewired?

No longer waiting in Tier 2!

 

[mwalsh]

I can avoid charging when someone is going to use the door opener, or would I be best off just moving the freezer until I get rewired?

No longer waiting in Tier 2!

Congrats on the new LEAF! If you're certain that the freezer only draws 3 amps (even when the compressor kicks in?) and you have nobody playing with the door openers ("door goes up, door comes down, door goes up".....etc). I think you'll be OK. The EVSE only draws 12 amps when in use.

 

[nogajim]

I can avoid charging when someone is going to use the door opener, or would I be best off just moving the freezer until I get rewired?

Congrats on the new LEAF! If you're certain that the freezer only draws 3 amps (even when the compressor kicks in?) and you have nobody playing with the door openers ("door goes up, door comes down, door goes up".....etc). I think you'll be OK. The EVSE only draws 12 amps when in use.

I don't have a meter (may need to add that to my signature), I am just going by the labels. The freezer say 3.0 amps and 115V; nothing about whether that is peak current.

Does it matter if I plug it next in the same outlet with any of the above?

Thanks for your help!
Jim

No longer waiting in Tier 2!

 

[derkraut]

I can avoid charging when someone is going to use the door opener, or would I be best off just moving the freezer until I get rewired?

Congrats on the new LEAF! If you're certain that the freezer only draws 3 amps (even when the compressor kicks in?) and you have nobody playing with the door openers ("door goes up, door comes down, door goes up".....etc). I think you'll be OK. The EVSE only draws 12 amps when in use.

I don't have a meter (may need to add that to my signature), I am just going by the labels. The freezer say 3.0 amps and 115V; nothing about whether that is peak current.

Does it matter if I plug it next in the same outlet with any of the above?

Thanks for your help!
Jim

No longer waiting in Tier 2!

I would just go ahead and plug it in. The worst thing that could happen is that the 20amp circuit breaker would trip. No damage would ensue. If that happens, then you know you have to plug in somewhere else.

 

[nogajim]

I would just go ahead and plug it in. The worst thing that could happen is that the 20amp circuit breaker would trip. No damage would ensue. If that happens, then you know you have to plug in somewhere else.

So far so good, except that upon further review, the circuit was actually 15 A instead of 20. No breaker trips yet, but we moved the freezer to the basement, because it was going to be huffing and puffing in the garage now that our cool snap is over. And my panel looks pretty full, so getting an EVSE installed could take several steps. The timer is set so that we are unlikely to be charging and opening the door at the same time.

Thanks again! Lovin' the car!