evnow
Well-known member
Not sure what you mean by "our" since you are not from CAkentuckyleaf said:
The rule definitely needs some tweaking.
Official BMW i3 thread
- Thread starter LTLFTcomposite
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
The rule definitely needs some tweaking.
kentuckyleaf
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
I disagree with this statement 100%. Inept government in California forces poor REx design on the rest of us. Instead of taking your shiny new i3 with it's range augmentation, you take your camper tow vehicle that gets 18 mpg on a 200 mile trip. Forced on you because the government wants to babysit your every move. Not all of us need the California "max bad air" standard REx i3, we could use a vehicle that allows us to maximize our low fuel consumption driving. Otherwise we are stuck with a "not enough battery for the commute" Volt or PiP. Granted the Leaf and 4Runner have been a good combination, but every time we take the 250 mile trip to see my family in Ohio in the 4Runner, I wish for the i3 with REx. I'm wanting it much less now that I know that 250 miles is out of the question. Since we are talking a simple button on a touch screen that modifies the range extender's operating profile, maybe we can get the "non California" i3 that ends up being the perfect Rex EV for the rest of us. Please remember (directed at the BMW decision makers) that public L2 and L3 charging is pretty much non existent in Kentucky and MANY other states. Design us a perfect car, and downgrade it as needed for California.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
SanDust said:
Tesla is wrong, IMO on many levels, but the two principle reasons are:
Mass is critical in handling performance on all vehicles. While many will accept the limitations of a ~4,600 lb vehicle, like the S, (or a future ~3500 lb? smaller Tesla sedan) many will not.
I wonder, BTW, what sort of handling improvement you will get for the ~2600 lb I3, just by replacing the stock 155 tires?
In a mass-production vehicle (unlike the Tesla S) cost control is critical in order to produce vehicles profitably, and operate them economically.
More batteries mean higher costs, just as do the extreme lightening efforts used by BMW in the I3.
But the higher costs of added batteries add not only to the original price, but also cause higher operating costs, due to the higher battery depreciation costs over time, and the higher energy costs due to the heavier BEV's lower energy efficiency.
evnow
Well-known member
But for the same "inept government in California", we probably wouldn't have had most EVs.kentuckyleaf said:
mkjayakumar
Well-known member
Amen. Let us thank CA and its CARB standards for the nice Leaf we are driving today..
The $10K question is: Does the BMW I3 have a TMS ?
The $10K question is: Does the BMW I3 have a TMS ?
evnow
Well-known member
Yes.mkjayakumar said:
TomMoloughney
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 157
evnow said:
Correction: we definitely wouldn't have had most EV's.
davewill
Well-known member
OK, for starters, no one knows how BMW will choose to design the car, so you may have your panties in a twist for nothing. BMW is free to design the car however they want. If they don't like the CARB rules for ZEV status, they can design it how they like and accept being classified similarly to the Volt...or they can lobby to have the rules changed. I think you should keep in mind that without our "inept" government, you would probably not have a REx to complain about at all.kentuckyleaf said:
redLEAF
Well-known member
Another road test along with a few more photos ...
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130709/carreviews/130709845#ixzz2Yq78fMT5
"What's it like to drive?
You step over the i3's substantial sills and sit high (for a BMW) for a commanding view. The seats offer little lateral support but are firm and have integrated headrests. There is no electronic seat adjustment and there won't be, even as an option, because BMW says it didn't want to use electricity that could be used for more range.
The layout inside is unlike any other BMW, with a heavily raked windscreen, deep dash, no center console and the flat floor. BMW insisted on covering parts of the interior on the prototypes we drove at its test track near Munich. We're told, however, that the production version will adhere to the most recent concept car's modern driving environment.
The main control is a pod extending from the steering column, housing the starter button, park mechanism and gear shifter -- forward position for D, middle position for N, backwards for R. There are also secondary controls between the front seats, including a new iDrive controller, the electronic parking brake and the drive mode switch -- the latter key to balancing performance and range.
Pressing the start button (no key) and nudging the gear lever forward feels new-world but also intuitive. There is a faint electric motor whine as we get underway, and one can hear the tires rolling on the pavement, but otherwise the cabin is quiet. In the first mile or two, the steering's directness gets our attention. The electro-hydraulic steering is related to the setup on the next-generation Mini, due to make its world premiere at the Los Angeles Auto Show later this year. The steering is nicely weighted considering the car was conceived mostly for urban driving, and also centers itself quickly. The front wheels don't channel any power -- this clearly helps.
Thanks to its low weight, the i3 offers instantaneous acceleration and entertaining pace up to and beyond typical city speed limits. All that instant torque is being delivered to the rear wheels and the car's acceleration is impressive, more so than a traditional gasoline or diesel car with roughly the same horsepower. Before you know it, you're backing off.
The default driving mode is comfort, designed to provide maximum performance up to 93 mph. The energy recuperation rate and trailing-throttle braking effect depend on the mode you choose. ECO-PRO+ is the most efficient of the three and provides aggressive stopping power. Back off the throttle in this mode, and the electric motor is used as a generator to collect kinetic energy -- so much so you rarely need more than a fleeting dab of the brakes to slow down.
In addition to having the most aggressive energy recuperation, ECO-PRO+ also limits top speed to 50 mph, reduces the A/C performance to save juice, and in combination with the nav system, will route you on roads with the best topography for the most range possible.
The strong acceleration, seamless power delivery and strong energy-recuperation system make us think the i3 will be a terrific city car. We've only driven it on a test track but can say it possesses all the likeable traits the earlier Mini E and 1-series ActiveE have, with more impressive performance, more range and a more commanding driving position.
The car's agility is actually the best part of the drive. Its lightweight body structure and lithium-ion batteries mounted low make for a center of gravity that, at 18.5 inches from the ground, is close to the Volkswagen XL1's. Combine this with rear-wheel-drive dynamics and the responsive driveline, and you have a truly engaging, fun drive. Throw the i3 into a corner and there's some body roll, but it builds progressively.
But we'll need more time behind the wheel on public roads before we can deliver any real ride-quality appraisal."
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130709/carreviews/130709845#ixzz2Yq78fMT5
"What's it like to drive?
You step over the i3's substantial sills and sit high (for a BMW) for a commanding view. The seats offer little lateral support but are firm and have integrated headrests. There is no electronic seat adjustment and there won't be, even as an option, because BMW says it didn't want to use electricity that could be used for more range.
The layout inside is unlike any other BMW, with a heavily raked windscreen, deep dash, no center console and the flat floor. BMW insisted on covering parts of the interior on the prototypes we drove at its test track near Munich. We're told, however, that the production version will adhere to the most recent concept car's modern driving environment.
The main control is a pod extending from the steering column, housing the starter button, park mechanism and gear shifter -- forward position for D, middle position for N, backwards for R. There are also secondary controls between the front seats, including a new iDrive controller, the electronic parking brake and the drive mode switch -- the latter key to balancing performance and range.
Pressing the start button (no key) and nudging the gear lever forward feels new-world but also intuitive. There is a faint electric motor whine as we get underway, and one can hear the tires rolling on the pavement, but otherwise the cabin is quiet. In the first mile or two, the steering's directness gets our attention. The electro-hydraulic steering is related to the setup on the next-generation Mini, due to make its world premiere at the Los Angeles Auto Show later this year. The steering is nicely weighted considering the car was conceived mostly for urban driving, and also centers itself quickly. The front wheels don't channel any power -- this clearly helps.
Thanks to its low weight, the i3 offers instantaneous acceleration and entertaining pace up to and beyond typical city speed limits. All that instant torque is being delivered to the rear wheels and the car's acceleration is impressive, more so than a traditional gasoline or diesel car with roughly the same horsepower. Before you know it, you're backing off.
The default driving mode is comfort, designed to provide maximum performance up to 93 mph. The energy recuperation rate and trailing-throttle braking effect depend on the mode you choose. ECO-PRO+ is the most efficient of the three and provides aggressive stopping power. Back off the throttle in this mode, and the electric motor is used as a generator to collect kinetic energy -- so much so you rarely need more than a fleeting dab of the brakes to slow down.
In addition to having the most aggressive energy recuperation, ECO-PRO+ also limits top speed to 50 mph, reduces the A/C performance to save juice, and in combination with the nav system, will route you on roads with the best topography for the most range possible.
The strong acceleration, seamless power delivery and strong energy-recuperation system make us think the i3 will be a terrific city car. We've only driven it on a test track but can say it possesses all the likeable traits the earlier Mini E and 1-series ActiveE have, with more impressive performance, more range and a more commanding driving position.
The car's agility is actually the best part of the drive. Its lightweight body structure and lithium-ion batteries mounted low make for a center of gravity that, at 18.5 inches from the ground, is close to the Volkswagen XL1's. Combine this with rear-wheel-drive dynamics and the responsive driveline, and you have a truly engaging, fun drive. Throw the i3 into a corner and there's some body roll, but it builds progressively.
But we'll need more time behind the wheel on public roads before we can deliver any real ride-quality appraisal."
RegGuheert
Well-known member
Thanks for the link, redLEAF!
Do they really think this is necessary? I would find it pretty annoying if I had to shift out of ECO into a completely different mode to go past 50 MPH.redLEAF said:
Stoaty
Well-known member
Makes that mode a non-starter. What were they thinking?RegGuheert said:
davewill
Well-known member
City streets where the speed limit rarely goes over 50mph :roll: . The review implied there were multiple modes. I suspect there will be one with good regen, but a higher speed limit.Stoaty said:
TomMoloughney
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 157
Stoaty said:
There are three driving modes. The regular driving mode is called "comfort" which is what most people will drive in most of the time. Then there is "Eco Pro" mode which will reduce the motor power a bit and also power to accessories and will increase your range by about 10-12%(they say). Then there is "Eco Pro+" which you are talking about. You would only really use this if you realized you may not make your destination and need to drive as conservatively as possible. I suspect if you have the range extender option you would never use Eco Pro+mode because it drastically reduces power to the motor and shuts off all non-essential electric draws. It's really a "OH sh**, I'm not going to make it" mode, where if you've owned an EV, you've probably experienced that feeling a few times.
The MINI-E and ActiveE drivers like me told BMW we thought it would be a good idea to have a mode that basically shut everything off and cut power dramatically in an effort just to get you to a place to plug in and this is what they decided to do. It's NOT a normal driving mode,
Stoaty
Well-known member
Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.TomMoloughney said:
LEAFer
Well-known member
That third mode should be called "limp home" mode ... and not have "Pro" in it's nameTomMoloughney said:
evnow
Well-known member
My vote is for Turtle Pro PlusLEAFer said:That third mode should be called "limp home" mode ... and not have "Pro" in it's name
surfingslovak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 3,809
TURTLE + ;-)evnow said:My vote is for Turtle Pro PlusLEAFer said:That third mode should be called "limp home" mode ... and not have "Pro" in it's name
TomMoloughney
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 157
I really don't car what it's called as long as it does what I want it to. Plus, you usually can't induce "turtle" mode, the car will just go into that when you are just about done.
Like many of you all here, I've been driving a pure electric for a few years now so there have been times where I had a destination to go to that I was on the fence whether or not I would make. My MINI-E could consistently deliver 100 miles if I drove responsibly so if the destination was <100 I would always go for it. However if it was 105-110 I would have to look at the grades, the speed I'd drive, etc. If I had this kind of mode, I'd turn it on for the trip there and probably arrive at 60%SOC or so. That way I could drive normally home knowing I had plenty of juice. I actually lobbied for this mode for a while with BMW and I really think it can be useful maybe once every month or so. However It's pretty much useless if you have the range extender option.
Like many of you all here, I've been driving a pure electric for a few years now so there have been times where I had a destination to go to that I was on the fence whether or not I would make. My MINI-E could consistently deliver 100 miles if I drove responsibly so if the destination was <100 I would always go for it. However if it was 105-110 I would have to look at the grades, the speed I'd drive, etc. If I had this kind of mode, I'd turn it on for the trip there and probably arrive at 60%SOC or so. That way I could drive normally home knowing I had plenty of juice. I actually lobbied for this mode for a while with BMW and I really think it can be useful maybe once every month or so. However It's pretty much useless if you have the range extender option.
surfingslovak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2011
- Messages
- 3,809
Tom, don't get me wrong, I'm glad this mode exists. One of the things that came up with the LEAF before was that the turtle mode only lasts about half a mile before the car is dead. It's far too late when the driver sees it come on. Many owners purchased an aftermarket meter to work around the inadequate guessometer and other instrumentation in the car. Things are looking up on that front, but much work still remains.
The ECO mode in the LEAF was designed to extend the range by 10%, with a similar goal in mind. What if an owner was running low and saving some energy would help? Of course, every time it's engaged, the guessometer slavishly adds 10% to the estimated range, no matter what other contributing factors might be at work. The energy savings are achieved by cutting auxiliary power usage, limiting acceleration and climate control. Unfortunately, the top speed is not affected or monitored in any way, and many new owners often don't know about the benefits of slowing down, when trying to stretch the remaining range.
Personally, I think that it would be beneficial if the nav system calculated the maximum steady speed I could drive at to get to my destination. Perhaps there would be an alert if I exceeded this maximum projected speed to make me aware of the fact that I won't make it if I don't slow down. I believe that the driving mode you described above will help, and drivers can disengage it, if they found the speed limit too intrusive or needed to drive faster. I think part of the challenge is finding appropriate names for these features and setting the right expectations.
The ECO mode in the LEAF was designed to extend the range by 10%, with a similar goal in mind. What if an owner was running low and saving some energy would help? Of course, every time it's engaged, the guessometer slavishly adds 10% to the estimated range, no matter what other contributing factors might be at work. The energy savings are achieved by cutting auxiliary power usage, limiting acceleration and climate control. Unfortunately, the top speed is not affected or monitored in any way, and many new owners often don't know about the benefits of slowing down, when trying to stretch the remaining range.
Personally, I think that it would be beneficial if the nav system calculated the maximum steady speed I could drive at to get to my destination. Perhaps there would be an alert if I exceeded this maximum projected speed to make me aware of the fact that I won't make it if I don't slow down. I believe that the driving mode you described above will help, and drivers can disengage it, if they found the speed limit too intrusive or needed to drive faster. I think part of the challenge is finding appropriate names for these features and setting the right expectations.
evnow
Well-known member
I think I've said this many times - but technology now exists to fairly accurately predict the range based on the route - nav system knows everything that is needed. We just need these slow moving OEMs to hire a proper tech company to build the needed software. Infact, nothing that can't be achieved in a simple mobile app.
(here is an idea for those Bluetooth OBDII Leaf apps ...)
(here is an idea for those Bluetooth OBDII Leaf apps ...)
Similar threads
