Official California SDG&E Thread

[jcesare]

Once they figure out that their study participation is skewed, because only the -H and -M people followed through and participated, they might reconsider.

I have the -L (now X) rate and I'm participating. It will keep me out of the next tier so it's still beneficial. I won't pay less but I won't pay a lot more in tier III. IMO "random" means they found the sweet spot on everyone's bill and figured out how much to squeeze the golden goose.

 

[SanDust]

What other rate schedules would be "applicable" while you are participating in the study

You wouldn't then be in the study. The entire sections reads as follows: "At the end of the EV project, the PEV-TOU rates will terminate. At that time, participants must change to an applicable SDG&E rate schedule. Participants are able to change to another applicable rate schedule prior to the end of the EV Project, provided the Participant has received service on the PEV-TOU rate schedule for at least 12 consecutive months."

My reading is that the "applicable SDG&E rate schedule" you would select when the project ends would be the same as the "applicable SDG&E rate schedule" you could move to after 12 months. That could be an existing TOU or just the DR but would not be one of the experimental rates.

BTW I think it would be great if you were right but I'm doubting that.

 

[SanDust]

All true. However, you don't have to accept the SDG&E second meter to get the goodies you're talking about. You still get the free EVSE and install just by being EV Project!

The SDG&E second meter has to be attractive for its own reasons -- namely, costing less to charge.
With the Low-Spread plan, you pay the very-high TOU-2 rates, which are very expensive in the day, and the same price as baseline DR at night. That's hardly worth participating.

Yes you don't need the meter to get the free charger but I'd think that unless you have a PV system (I don't think you do but maybe that's wrong) you'd really want that second meter. If you go above 130% of baseline on the DR schedule, which I'd think most people would do, then the "X" rate is way better. The rates on DR above 130% of baseline are roughly $.29 or $.30 per kWh for every kWh you use. The peak rates on the "X" rate is $.27 in summer and $.177 in winter. Rates at other times are between $.13/kWh and $.17/kWh.

If you want to screw with them, I'd think that taking the meter, which will cost them $300, and then charging whenever you felt like it, which is fine on the "X" rate, would send them the message that there needs to be a larger difference between off-peak and peak are better than not taking the meter.

The reality is that the "X" rate is a joke. Given that a month's worth of a $.05/kWh difference will barely buy me a can of nuts, it's hard to understand why anyone would bother trying to charge off-peak on this rate. If SDG&E wants to time shift demand, the few cents incentive they're offering won't cut it IMO.

 

[lonndoggie]

The reality is that the "X" rate is a joke. Given that a month's worth of a $.05/kWh difference will barely buy me a can of nuts, it's hard to understand why anyone would bother trying to charge off-peak on this rate. If SDG&E wants to time shift demand, the few cents incentive they're offering won't cut it IMO.

Hope SDG&E reads your post, as it pretty much provides all the study results they need on on the "X" rate.

 

[ttweed]

My reading is that the "applicable SDG&E rate schedule" you would select when the project ends would be the same as the "applicable SDG&E rate schedule" you could move to after 12 months. That could be an existing TOU or just the DR but would not be one of the experimental rates.

BTW I think it would be great if you were right but I'm doubting that.

It was a long time ago now, and things can change, but I pointedly asked this exact question at the CCSE workshop back in Oct., 2010, when SDG&E and Ecotality presented the EVP project parameters, and was told that the participant could "switch" rates from the randomly assigned one to any of the other experimental rates after 12 months. It is only fair that if you are saddled with the worst rate through some "random" assignment that you be allowed to switch to one of the cheaper ones after a year, IMHO. Maybe it won't work out that way, but what would be the point of switching to EV-TOU after 12 months when it is more expensive than even the dreaded EPEV-X rate?

At the end of the full 24-month project, I expect that the study results will be used to determine a new EV-TOU rate structure for CPUC approval that we will all be able to go onto, and it will be more favorable than the existing EV-TOU rates, but only time will tell.

TT

 

[ttweed]

With the Low-Spread plan, you pay the very-high TOU-2 rates, which are very expensive in the day, and the same price as baseline DR at night. That's hardly worth participating.

The trouble with DR is the tiered rate structure. Even without an EV and with no large electricity hogs in my home (no A/C, pool or spa, and almost all natural gas appliances, except for the washer and refrigerator), I regularly get into Tier 2 pricing. Unless you have solar, I don't see how you can keep from getting deeply into Tier-3 pricing with an EV that gets regular use. At those rates (.29-31/kWh), even the worst TOU off-peak tariff seems like a bargain.

With a PV system, it's a whole different ball game. I wish I wasn't in this coastal micro-climate with so many foggy days. I don't think solar would work that well here.
TT

 

[SanDust]

It was a long time ago now, and things can change, but I pointedly asked this exact question at the CCSE workshop back in Oct., 2010, when SDG&E and Ecotality presented the EVP project parameters, and was told that the participant could "switch" rates from the randomly assigned one to any of the other experimental rates after 12 months.

This would be great if true, and if they've said we can switch to another rate plan of our choosing then that would normally be the end of the discussion in my book. However the program has had some rough edges and there has been a fair amount of misinformation so my faith isn't as strong as perhaps it should be. ;-)

If true GroundLoop should definitely take the separate meter.

A PV system works just fine along the coast. Not quite as good a AZ but not much different than inland unless maybe you're in La Jolla, and even then it works OK according to some friends who live there. Orientation and shading are probably bigger issues than clouds. But a PV system is going to take quite a while to pay for itself, so if the motivation is to save money it won't be a great idea for most people.

 

[leucadialeaf]

I just received an email from SDG&E congratulating me on receiving the lousy "X" rate schedule for my recently installed second meter. Seems like a disproportionate number of us are being "randomly" assigned this rate schedule! Is there a poll anywhere on MNL to tally this?

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

A poll would be a great idea! I too get the sense that X is proportionally large. Maybe they gave out -H and -M only for a while, and are looking to rebalance?

The earlier link to SDG&E's CPUC letter renaming the rates is a good one. Lots of good information in there on the recent changes they made to the terms and rates.
http://www.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/2219-E.pdf

Important tidbits!

• No customers are currently served on EV-TOU-3. Zero
• The naming change is specifically to "avoid self-selection bias", which is a losing idea
• Changes to pump ECTY's name
• Addition of VOLT
• Expanding the experimental schedule requirement from 12 to 24 months

See that last one?

 

[ttweed]

A poll would be a great idea! I too get the sense that X is proportionally large. Maybe they gave out -H and -M only for a while, and are looking to rebalance?

My 2nd meter is not even set yet (no inspection on the Blink inspection after 10 days now!) but I got the letter yesterday assigning me to the Z rate group (formerly "high-ratio).

[*]Expanding the experimental schedule requirement from 12 to 24 months[/list]

See that last one?

That's kind of crappy of them to change the rules after we committed to the project last year! :twisted:

TT

 

[davekern]

So I have a second meter for my Leaf that was installed a couple of weeks ago. I also have a PV solar system. Every couple of week I would check my meter to see what my peak, off peak and total usage was to monitor how much net metering my pv system was doing. When I checked it this time (first after getting the meter), I noticed that the "register numbers" seem to be different. It doesn't look like it is counting backwards anymore, which it should this time of year. Does anyone know if what the register numbers represent now? There seems to be lots of them now. Is there no backwards counting any more, maybe another register to count when I feed the grid?

I hope this makes sense... at least to those net metering people out there.

Thanks!

 

[Jimmydreams]

So I have a second meter for my Leaf that was installed a couple of weeks ago. I also have a PV solar system. Every couple of week I would check my meter to see what my peak, off peak and total usage was to monitor how much net metering my pv system was doing. When I checked it this time (first after getting the meter), I noticed that the "register numbers" seem to be different. It doesn't look like it is counting backwards anymore, which it should this time of year. Does anyone know if what the register numbers represent now? There seems to be lots of them now. Is there no backwards counting any more, maybe another register to count when I feed the grid?

I hope this makes sense... at least to those net metering people out there.

Thanks!

You'll have to wait until you get your bill....I have never been able to figure out my net-metering numbers until the bill comes. I AM having a problem now that my EV meter is installed in that SDG&E keeps sending me corrected statements. I think they've got some internal problems in their software when you add a second EV meter to an already net-metered installation, but that's just my opinion. :evil:

 

[LEAFer]

This may *NOT* apply to a net-metering (with PV) system ... we don't have that yet. But I'll post what I found anyway ... it might help.

On May 1 I noticed the numbers in the "registers" (or "bins") changing on me. This is on the 2nd meter that was installed by SMUD (Sacramento Muni Util. District) for measuring the power consumed for EV charging. The meter is a TOU type with an on-peak and an off-peak rate. Registers which were previously reading 0, now suddenly contained significant non-zero data.

By analyzing some notes I had ... it quickly became obvious that the meter copied the Winter kWh accumulations to the new registers, while continuing to increment the kWh values in the normal (total current use) registers. Winter rates season runs Nov 1 - April 30. So it appears that some (previously unused) registers keep track of the accumulated totals thru the end of the prior season.

I don't have an official explanation ... just surmising, but hope this helps ...

 

[sdbonez]

You'll have to wait until you get your bill....I have never been able to figure out my net-metering numbers until the bill comes.

Well, my cycle has come and gone and I've received no bill at all since my 2nd meter install.

Guess it's free, then - huh? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Jimmydreams]

You'll have to wait until you get your bill....I have never been able to figure out my net-metering numbers until the bill comes.

Well, my cycle has come and gone and I've received no bill at all since my 2nd meter install.

Guess it's free, then - huh? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

My EV meter bill was hidden under my natural gas bill. I had to log onto my SDG&E account, select "add account" and added the gas bill. After that, I'm able to see my net-metered electric bill and my gas + EV bill. Go on-line and see if yours isn't set up the same....??

But I'll cross my fingers for ya on the "free" part just the same!!

 

[sdbonez]

yeah, already checked - nada. A similar thing happened when they finally swapped my main meter for my net-metering compatible smart meter..about a 3 week delay (and new accounts revert to paper billing, I believe, too)

 

[ttweed]

A PV system works just fine along the coast. Not quite as good a AZ but not much different than inland unless maybe you're in La Jolla...

Unfortunately, I am indeed in the worst part of La Jolla for the marine layer--right at the SW base of Mt. Soledad, 4 blocks from the ocean. We seem to be the first place to fog in and the last place to burn off. Plus I have a 3-story apartment building across the street to the west that blocks the setting sun about 4:30PM, even if it is shining then.

We finally had our second meter set on Friday, so our blink is finally functional and we have been charging with it over the weekend. What I don't know now is when our TOU metering will begin. Does it start as soon as they install the meter? Or on the next billing cycle? Anyone know? I guess I will call SDG&E to see if no one has clear experience about this. I need to start paying attention to the time I charge now, and haven't had to do that yet using the L1 charger on DR rate.

Thx,
TT

 

[jcesare]

Unfortunately, I am indeed in the worst part of La Jolla for the marine layer--right at the SW base of Mt. Soledad, 4 blocks from the ocean. We seem to be the first place to fog in and the last place to burn off. Plus I have a 3-story apartment building across the street to the west that blocks the setting sun about 4:30PM, even if it is shining then.

I use to live on the corner of Neptune and Bonair... last place the fog would burn off.

We finally had our second meter set on Friday, so our blink is finally functional and we have been charging with it over the weekend. What I don't know now is when our TOU metering will begin. Does it start as soon as they install the meter? Or on the next billing cycle? Anyone know? I guess I will call SDG&E to see if no one has clear experience about this. I need to start paying attention to the time I charge now, and haven't had to do that yet using the L1 charger on DR rate.

It think it begins with installation. Please note there is no weekend rate. So far the timer has worked perfectly for me and all my charging has been super off peak. I've noticed the charge estimate is always longer than actual wall time. Even when I've been down to two bars, it's been able to charge to 100% in under 5 hours.

 

[ttweed]

I use to live on the corner of Neptune and Bonair... last place the fog would burn off.

Pretty desirable address--Windansea Beach, my favorite spot!

It think it begins with installation. Please note there is no weekend rate.

Ya, I called SDG&E and they said the 2nd TOU meter is effective as soon as it's mounted, but I won't be sure what rates they are charging me until I see my next bill. I got deeply into Tier 4 rates on my DR schedule charging the Leaf on L1 last month. It probably cost me $80 to drive 1100 miles. This next month should cut that by 2/3 or more.

The fact that they don't charge different weekend rates does not fit with the Blink firmware. It only allows you to choose WEEKDAY or WEEKEND when you enter a rate. There is no choice for EVERY DAY. I called them and there is a firmware update being planned to improve the user interface, and they have this feature on the list already. As it is, with 3 rates that change from Summer to Winter, I would have to make 12 entries on the rate screen, which is pretty damn burdensome. Does it lose them if the Blink loses power or are the rate schedules retained in non-volatile memory?

TT

 

[ybitz]

I use to live on the corner of Neptune and Bonair... last place the fog would burn off.

Pretty desirable address--Windansea Beach, my favorite spot!

It think it begins with installation. Please note there is no weekend rate.

Ya, I called SDG&E and they said the 2nd TOU meter is effective as soon as it's mounted, but I won't be sure what rates they are charging me until I see my next bill. I got deeply into Tier 4 rates on my DR schedule charging the Leaf on L1 last month. It probably cost me $80 to drive 1100 miles. This next month should cut that by 2/3 or more.

The fact that they don't charge different weekend rates does not fit with the Blink firmware. It only allows you to choose WEEKDAY or WEEKEND when you enter a rate. There is no choice for EVERY DAY. I called them and there is a firmware update being planned to improve the user interface, and they have this feature on the list already. As it is, with 3 rates that change from Summer to Winter, I would have to make 12 entries on the rate screen, which is pretty damn burdensome. Does it lose them if the Blink loses power or are the rate schedules retained in non-volatile memory?

TT

Btw, you can use your web browser to put in the rate schedules in Blink. By default I think it's using the IP address: 192.168.1.80. It's a lot faster/easier than standing in front of the Blink charger and using the touchpad.