Official EV Project / Ecotality / free charger thread

[EVDRIVER]

I really wonder if people will use pay stations as I expect the cost to be very high for them to make a profit. If it's $.25 a kwh it would cost $6 for 24kw. If they even pay $.10 kwh there is little profit for a device that is even used 8 hours a day. Equipment costs, maintenance, profit sharing/space lease, etc. It would seem that filling a LEAF may cost more than going to the gas station or at least the same.

 

[walterbays]

It would seem that filling a LEAF may cost more than going to the gas station or at least the same.

Yes, I can't see any pay model for the electricity that would make sense. If it began to pay for the (usually peak period) electricity and the EVSE infrastructure, the price would be equivalent to several times the price of gasoline.

However on a time use basis, the cost of charging appears to be much less than the cost of providing a parking space. Where parking is pay, EV charging could easily be a minor portion of the cost to draw customers in. Where parking is free, EV parking & charging could be done like validated parking: free with a minimum purchase at any participating retailer.

+1 on EVP needing to finally get something done prior to the end of their grand public infrastructure deployment. Jimmydreams is right that they could dramatically accelerate the public infrastructure. That could advance EV market penetration by several years.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

I have been to meetings with Utility and Government folks here in Washington State and they point the finger at the lack of cars out from the manufacturers yet as a issue. I think that Ecotality gets some breathing room on their delays as a result of the perceived lack of vehicles to use the stations. To give you an example, there are 6 stations from Coulomb in the Redmond and Bellevue areas up here and when I stopped by to use one for a short while last week, I was met by several employees at the location. I was told that I was the first car they had ever seen.

I think it is still early and the deployment is behind but so are the cars. Soon though.. patience Zen Masters and all will be revealed. Or so is my positive vibe on this. Soon enough DC Quick Charge and Level 2 stations will be deployed everywhere.

On a different but related subject - I have asked the CS folks at Nissan why the ChargePoint Network (Coulomb) and the Dealer stations don't appear on my in car navigation. They need to work hard to make sure they capture these as they come online from any EVSE manufacturer.

 

[garygid]

I hope these funds are not all "used up" before more than a few EVSEs get installed.

What is really needed is a good network on QC locations at the intersections transportation corridors, and carefull spaced in between at suitable distances.

A 10-mile grid of QC "stations" covering the San Diego area would probably be more useful than 1000 L2 stations at stores, etc.

In less dense areas, a 20-mile grid would probably be sufficient.

Charging locations generally need to have quick, nearby access, not a RT of 10 miles off the freeway to a stadium, mall, or shopping center.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

<snip>

What is really needed is a good network on QC locations at the intersections transportation corridors, and carefull spaced in between at suitable distances.
<snip>

Gary, I can't speak for San Diego but here in the Seattle area, much thought went into the locations for QC stations. We have a nice map of the proposed locations that was put out last year. The J1772/240v stations can go just about anywhere that a commercial entity might be willing to host one but the QC's that are Federally funded need to be thoughtfully spaced on transportation corridors as you state. I hope that California has public agencies providing input with guidance like that. I can't find anything via google on proposed sites in California but the West Coast Green Highways project (http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/) would indicate that California is on board with these principals.

 

[stanley]

i suspect that the delay in Leaf deliveries may be playing a role in the delay of puting in the infrastructure. There are only about a dozen Leafs in the San Diego area. Would you rush to put in millions of dollars of infrastucture for these few cars if it was your business? If Nissan will deliver a significant number of Leafs in the future, I am confident that the appropriated money will be used to create the infrastucture. We need to remember that the purpose for spending millions was to be able to do a study of usage. Can`t have a study if there are not a representative number of Leafs. Perhaps the E V Project study period will be extended until enough cars will be delivered so that there is sufficient usage to be able to draw conclusions.

 

[aries]

A 10-mile grid of QC "stations" covering the San Diego area would probably be more useful than 1000 L2 stations at stores, etc.

In less dense areas, a 20-mile grid would probably be sufficient.

Charging locations generally need to have quick, nearby access, not a RT of 10 miles off the freeway to a stadium, mall, or shopping center.

Our location is right between the 163 & 15 freeways. Less than a mile from the 163 in fact, right near the courthouse. Pretty convenient to the freeways! So, thats not the issue, it would seem.

 

[wsbca]

i suspect that the delay in Leaf deliveries may be playing a role in the delay of puting in the infrastructure. There are only about a dozen Leafs in the San Diego area. Would you rush to put in millions of dollars of infrastucture for these few cars if it was your business?

As recently as November everybody (including Ecotality, I believe) was under the impression that "lots" of Leafs were going to appear in December/January. And as long ago as August, Ecotality was trumpeting the progress they had made in identifying sites, working with jurisdictions etc., and telling roomfuls of prospective Leaf owners would be using these many charging stations for free at least until May. I don't think they suddenly went into some sort of work-slowdown in January simply because it became apparent that the cars weren't being deployed as rapidly as expected - that simply does not seem like an efficient way to do business. They are being paid to get the chargers out there. Trundling along paying overhead and NOT putting the chargers in is not going to make them any money. I think it has more to do with the delays in the Blinks being manufactured and the red tape that only crops up when you actually start trying to install stuff within jurisdictions rather than just talking about it than it does with some nefarious plan to ...what?....skim the money market account float off of the DOE money for a few months? Again, the money for the infrastructure is not their money, it's the government's money. They are a contractor. The best way to make money as a contractor is to finish the job and invoice for it, no?

 

[garygid]

Better QC locations would be within 0.2 miles of the intersections of freeways, with short, quick 4-way access, and within 0.1 miles of bi-directional freeway exits.

A through-town, 2-mile round-trip is not TOO bad, but a lot closer would be better.

Also, there should be some easily-visible "status" indicators that allow a person to tell, from the street, or perhaps even from the freeway, if the charging station is operational, totally busy, or immediately available (and the fuel price) ... without having to drive into the site, park, and get out and look.

 

[garygid]

I suspect that the EVProject is "using up" the government money each day, even if they do not actually install any charging stations. Are they already paying hundreds of sub-contractors for planning and site evaluations?

Later, they MIGHT say that they need another 100 M$ to actually begin/finish construction, and install anything.

 

[syntaxerror]

I suspect that the EVProject is "using up" the government money each day, even if they do not actually install any charging stations. Are they already paying hundreds of sub-contractors for planning and site evaluations?

Later, they MIGHT say that they need another 100 M$ to actually begin/finish construction, and install anything.

Does anyone else have a Blink? Anyone seen any other EV Project EVSE's?

I'm excluding Sparky's Blink and the Clipper Creek's they handed out in the beginning.

 

[Skywagon]

I suspect that the EVProject is "using up" the government money each day, even if they do not actually install any charging stations. Are they already paying hundreds of sub-contractors for planning and site evaluations?

Later, they MIGHT say that they need another 100 M$ to actually begin/finish construction, and install anything.

Does anyone else have a Blink? Anyone seen any other EV Project EVSE's?

I'm excluding Sparky's Blink and the Clipper Creek's they handed out in the beginning.

My Blink install is tomorrow morning; I am the first one in AZ. I will upload some photos tomorrow.

 

[Skywagon]

My Blink unit was installed this morning; just under 3 hours total for the swap from the Clipper Creek temporary unit to the new one. I did not have much time to check it out besides plugging my LEAF in to it for a short time; I will have more time tonight. I will say that the color touch screen interface is nice and it is a big upgrade from the Clipper Creek unit (I know that the CC unit is just a basic interface and not meant to compete with the Blink, capability and interface wise). I took a photo of the unit when the install was finished:

This is inside my enclosed garage... the 115V outlet cover is all we had for that outlet at the time. I will swap it to a open type later on.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Looks great!

 

[syntaxerror]

Skywagon--Are they connecting via your home IP network? Or via WWAN? Did they put any other networking equipment in your house?

 

[Skywagon]

Skywagon--Are they connecting via your home IP network? Or via WWAN? Did they put any other networking equipment in your house?

We set it up using my existing wireless network. It appears to be a wireless G interface internally due to which of my networks it had listed (I have a simultaneous B/G and N router - Linksys E3000; I name them named differently so I can keep track of what is connected to what).

I am not sure how other installs will go as they all seem to be treated a little differently; depending on how the site survey went/what they feel you need.

 

[wsbca]

What's the grey plastic box above the junction box that the Blink is plugged into?

 

[DaveEV]

What's the grey plastic box above the junction box that the Blink is plugged into?

It's a standard 120V outlet w/a outdoor faceplate - probably 20A.

 

[Skywagon]

What's the grey plastic box above the junction box that the Blink is plugged into?

It's a standard 120V outlet w/a outdoor faceplate - probably 20A.

It's actually a steel junction box and it is set to a 15A circuit as that is what was already elsewhere in my garage. I am picking up a normal indoor faceplate on my way home today to swap out that outdoor one as that may get annoying down the road.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

got mine too. First in Washington State.

Gallery of photos: http://bit.ly/f8Znuc