Official Kia Soul EV thread

[mtndrew1]

That said, it's just pulls cabin air through the pack and exhausts it outside the car. Still, better than a sealed metal box of batteries.

Does the fan come on when parked in the hot sun outside (say in AZ) ?

How about when parked in a non-ac garage in AZ - and charging ?

To the best of my knowledge the fan only comes on during two scenarios, when the car is powered on while driving and when the car is quick charging, regardless of whether or not the car is running.

I suppose the fan could also come on during L2 with the car off but my car charges in the middle of the night and I haven't made any effort to observe the behavior.

I presume any time the fan is running that the car polls the interior temp sensors and only pulls air cooler than the pack itself to avoid increasing pack temps.

 

[eloder]

Batteries should easily be lasting 10-15 years at 80%+ capacity--I don't think the average consumer will be terribly satisfied until batteries either last a long time, or are a low-cost replacement item.

Dream on!

It's not a dream, it's already a fact with lab-tested Tesla and smart ED batteries at 3000+ cycles (among others), along with real-world Teslas at 150k+ miles.

Leaf has poor batteries. If Lizard doesn't fix it (and it probably won't come near active TMS due to how battery chemistry works), the EV crowd isn't going to remain loyal to the Leaf.

 

[adric22]

Wow, I was surprised to see the Soul EV at the Dallas auto show today. I guess they are serious about bringing it to Texas after all.

 

[derkraut]

Batteries should easily be lasting 10-15 years at 80%+ capacity--I don't think the average consumer will be terribly satisfied until batteries either last a long time, or are a low-cost replacement item.

Dream on!

It's not a dream, it's already a fact with lab-tested Tesla and smart ED batteries at 3000+ cycles (among others), along with real-world Teslas at 150k+ miles.

Leaf has poor batteries. If Lizard doesn't fix it (and it probably won't come near active TMS due to how battery chemistry works), the EV crowd isn't going to remain loyal to the Leaf.

eloder: Er...Where did you obtain your information on real-world Teslas with 150K+ miles? Could you be a bit more specific? Who is your source?

 

[lorenfb]

Does the fan come on when parked in the hot sun outside (say in AZ) ?

How about when parked in a non-ac garage in AZ - and charging ?

Those are the key questions and how much heat can really be removed, i.e. using the Kia TMS method,
given the thermal capacity of the battery while not being driven nor plugged-in. Many seem to ignore
these very basic issues. And when driving, the cabin cooling will require additional energy demands
of the battery to cool the battery too. How will that affect the Kia's range? The Tesla's very large battery,
i.e. 85kWh, can support a TMS effectively which is not the case for the limited range BEVs.
Furthermore, as has been mentioned before, temperature is only one variable affecting battery
longevity and for many in more temperate climates, less of a determinate variable.

Bottom line: Where are the field data to provide an indication of the effectiveness of the Kia approach
to TMS? All that's posted seems to be anecdotal. Where's the equivalent of a LeafDD or Leaf Spy for the
Kia to provide meaningful data beyond what the Kia instrument cluster provides? This forum has provided
an extensive data resource for the Leaf battery which is not the case for the Kia battery here nor anywhere
else.

 

[lorenfb]

Many of the threads on this forum seem to have posts from non-EV owners who provide anecdotal data
to dis-credit (slam) the Leaf or provide hyperbole which in some cases many would call trolling.
The hyperbole of non-EV owners should focus more on their off-topic threads, e.g. politics, guns and
global warning (climate change) and not provide mis-information to present and future EVers.

 

[evnow]

Leaf has poor batteries. If Lizard doesn't fix it (and it probably won't come near active TMS due to how battery chemistry works), the EV crowd isn't going to remain loyal to the Leaf.

Actually, Leaf battery is great. Just that it is not as good as Nissan thought it was. But you are right - if the lizard doesn't fix the hot climate issue, Nissan will have to put TMS or get out of EV business.

If you run Tesla battery without any TMS, like Nissan is doing, Tesla's would be catching fire all the time.

Now, back on topic.

 

[tractioninc]

Anyone know if it's possible to lease a car in Georgia if you live in NY? Any guesses as to what it will cost to ship here from Atlanta?

The local (Atlanta) dealers I've talked to say that Kia is waiting on the Georgia General Assembly to decide whether or not they will repeal our $5,000 state EV tax rebate (the driving force behind our EV leases and sales) before introducing the Soul EV in this market. I'll take their press release with a grain of salt until I actually see one in a dealer showroom.

The latest news from Kia is that they plan to roll out the Soul EV in Georgia (read: Atlanta) in Q2 2015. http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/31/kia-soul-ev-will-start-sales-in-five-more-states-by-june/

However, a few days ago Georgia’s House and Senate passed a bill that would eliminate the state’s $5,000 ZEV tax credit and also put a $200/year road usage fee on electric vehicles. This would radically change the incredible value proposition of EV leases which had made Atlanta a top market for EV sales for the past few years. We'll find out shortly whether the Governor signs his bill into law. I don't see Kia rolling out the Soul EV here without that tax credit, and similarly, I would anticipate Leaf sales slowing substantially as well.
http://evobsession.com/georgia-bill-would-cut-5000-ev-incentive-add-200year-fee/

 

[AndyH]

eloder: Er...Where did you obtain your information on real-world Teslas with 150K+ miles? Could you be a bit more specific? Who is your source?

Here's 100K seven months ago: http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-100000-miles-21-month/

Here's a report on battery longevity and a owner with 149,000 miles: http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-roa...udy-85-percent-after-100000-miles-127733.html

It's not enough to look at cell chemistry and battery size to guess the lifespan and degradation because how the battery is built and how the cells are managed makes a huge difference. On one extreme, Tesla's using cells with a typical 500 cycle life while Daimler's using cells known to have a 2500+ cycle life - but because Tesla's carrying more cells than they absolutely need, they're working them more gently, cycling them less deeply, and keeping temperature very well controlled. That allows them to use less expensive/higher density cells and still get acceptable calendar life and miles traveled for the price (and weight). Other companies are using cells with a higher individual cycle life than they 'need' and saving some cash on thermal management (Nissan). Daimler/smart is in between somewhere (with regards to thermal management, anyway - they've got some of the higher cycle-life cells on the road). It'll be interesting to see exactly where on the continuum Kia's drawn their dot.

 

[Weatherman]

However, a few days ago Georgia’s House and Senate passed a bill that would eliminate the state’s $5,000 ZEV tax credit and also put a $200/year road usage fee on electric vehicles. This would radically change the incredible value proposition of EV leases which had made Atlanta a top market for EV sales for the past few years. We'll find out shortly whether the Governor signs his bill into law. I don't see Kia rolling out the Soul EV here without that tax credit, and similarly, I would anticipate Leaf sales slowing substantially as well.
http://evobsession.com/georgia-bill-would-cut-5000-ev-incentive-add-200year-fee/

I guess I should feel fortunate that Florida doesn't play games with financial incentives or dis-incentives. The EV market, pretty much, lives and dies by the merits of the various vehicles available. In the part of the Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area I frequent, I see lots of Teslas, and fair number of Volts, and almost no LEAFs.

None of the other EVs are available, here, and are unlikely to be available any time soon.

 

[tractioninc]

Follow-up: Just got word from Ed Voyles Kia (Marietta, GA) is that their first delivery Soul EVs should arrive on April 23rd.

 

[nosuchthing]

Georgia, you're getting a true 100-mile car, you're warm and have no hills (presumably).
Rejoice!

 

[dhanson865]

Georgia, you're getting a true 100-mile car, you're warm and have no hills (presumably).
Rejoice!

I live one state north of GA, it's going to be 80F tomorrow but I won't be able to buy a Soul EV anytime soon in TN.

 

[tractioninc]

Georgia's ZEV tax credit will expire on July 1, 2015 and EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax. The provision was rolled into the state's transportation funding bill that also included increases in transportation fuel taxes.

 

[Sondy132001]

Georgia's ZEV tax credit will expire on July 1, 2015 and EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax. The provision was rolled into the state's transportation funding bill that also included increases in transportation fuel taxes.

I am waiting for California to do this to us EV'ers because we don't buy gas any longer.

S

 

[tractioninc]

My local dealer hasn't received their first shipment of Soul EV's, but they do have a California-reg demo car now. I drove it today and liked it a lot. By the stats, the Soul EV is a very comparable match to the the Leaf, but I prefer the Soul's styling and the cooled seats are a nice bonus here in the south. I plan to take delivery of mine next week.

 

[TomT]

I actually have no problem with this... It is simply fair.

EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax.

 

[dhanson865]

I actually have no problem with this... It is simply fair.

EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax.

double taxation?

Or do they give you a discount on the taxes on your electric bill once you start paying the EV tax?

Besides cars with one or two people in them don't wear down the road much. It's all about weight, as in the big honkin trucks are doing the road damage not the little cars.

I could see an EV tax that is graduated by vehicle weight class being fair but just taxing EVs in general because they don't use gas isn't fair.

http://afdc.energy.gov/data/10380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one version I just found says that a freight truck does as much damage as 9600 cars. Do you think they'll charge the freight truck 9600 times as much if they go electric?

 

[eloder]

I actually have no problem with this... It is simply fair.

EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax.

Why? You pay as much in taxes as a 15 mpg SUV does doing 12000 miles a year. Your car is a tiny fraction of the weight and many times more efficient.

Economists will look at Georgia 10 years from now and facepalm.

 

[NX2001]

I actually have no problem with this... It is simply fair.

EVs will be required to pay a new $200/yr road tax.

Why? You pay as much in taxes as a 15 mpg SUV does doing 12000 miles a year. Your car is a tiny fraction of the weight and many times more efficient.

Economists will look at Georgia 10 years from now and facepalm.

I'll be happy to pay a $200/yr road tax...

If everyone else does...