Official Southern California Edison thread

[mwalsh]

We're in month #5 of our annual net metering schedule, and we already have an amassed credit of about $305 to use against months when our solar PV system will generate less power.

We're very pleased with this rate plan, obviously, and I can't wait to tell everyone about it who has solar and an EV.

We're sitting at $515 credit for 4 months. But that's mostly because I've been charging the car 2 less days a week, due to the furloughs from work. It also hasn't been terribly hot much yet, so we haven't had massive A/C use.

But overall, yes, I'm pleased with the rate plan too.

 

[Aeolus]

Thank you very much to the people who have posted about PV/EV with SCE, and particularly the examples of actual bills with TOU billing.

I have a Leaf on order and we are getting ready to order a new roof and PV system, and it has been not been easy to suss out how this billing will work.

 

[Aeolus]

As we begin our PV/EV adventure, the first step was contacting SCE to find out what we needed to do to upgrade our service from 100 Amps to 200 Amps to accommodate an additional 40 Amp breaker for the solar system and an additional 40 Amp breaker for a 240V charger to be determined.

(As an aside, yes, I know I know I could get by with a 20Amp or 30Amp breaker because the LEAF only draws 16 Amps, but as long as I have to upgrade the panel, I might as well do it this way and be prepared).

The Service Planner came out the day after I called and was very pleasant. We are in an area with underground utilities, and it looks as if I will have to dig a trench into the neighbor's back yard where some form of pedestal serves four houses. This trench will allow for installation of a 3" PVC conduit. The conduit needs to be buried under 30" of cover.

Once the conduit is in place, and the new box is ready, SCE will install the service line between the pedestal and my house.

There's a slight chance that the conduit is already there, but I would lay long odds that when they built this tract forty years ago, they put in the least expensive solution available.

 

[tbleakne]

I'm with you.. it's crazy how they break it into delivery/generation and with TOU, generation is broken into DWR and SCE. And every one of them has different kWh allocated to L1/L2. I think they're just trying to obfuscate the bill and make it completely inscrutable.

The DWR/SCE gen split is a remnant from the Gray Davis energy crisis (~2000-2002), and will eventually end when those DWR contracts expire over the next few years. The "Distribution/Gen" split is due to California adopting "Direct Access" in the 1990's - those D/A customers only pay their utility for Distribution, and they buy the Energy/Gen from some other provider, so every rate has to be broken out into those components.

It should get better over the next few years, as the DWR contracts expire and other simplification steps are put in place, but I agree it's very frustrating today.

Be very careful what you wish for. You can see that the DWR fraction is charged at a MUCH lower rate that does not rise across tiers. DWR rates are low because, as a municipal, not private, utility, they are more or less free of control from the California Utility Commission. They have been buying a lot of cheap coal-generated power from Arizona and other states. SCE is not allowed to do that. If and when the DWR contracts go away, many folks who don't have solar are going to see a big rise in their rates. This is my understanding.

For those of us with solar and TOU, we should do better, because our total on-peak generation payback price will be higher, not averaged with DWR.

 

[tbleakne]

How long does it take for them to enable net metering? From the few stories I've seen on this forum, it has varied a lot.

Boomer23 has given you the good case.

For those of you who are experiencing some frustrating delays in getting your Net Metering and/or TOU going properly, I urge you to be assertive with SCE, but still be patient. To help calibrate you, let me review my own (hopefully) worst-case experience. My solar went on-line Dec 10, 2010, and the bi-directional meter was installed Jan 6, 2011. All that was fine. It was two months, however, before SCE read this meter, so their first net-metering statements were based upon past experience which, of course, included no solar. They continued to bill my bank account for imaginary net consumption. When they finally did read the meter, they gave me a big credit (but no cash), much of which they subsequently clawed back.

Once I thought I had the net metering in place, several months before I actually received a net-metering statement that was correct, I applied for TOU, which is a different SCE "silo" from Net Metering. Once again the physical installation of the meter was quite prompt, a few weeks I believe, but getting the TOU billing working took until June 2011. I have just received my 3rd TOU statement, 9 months after my solar went on-line.

Things should go much more smoothly when all the smart meters can do net-metering without a meter swap, and TOU will be just a program change. Someone in my area just got a smart meter that also does net-metering, but he was also having trouble getting credit. The program load code changes from 151 or whatever it was to something else.

I have also heard that they can now retrofit an original smart meter to do net-metering by swapping a chip. I am not sure this is true. If so, it means the meter number will stay the same, and you, the customer will not be able to "prove" to customer support whether the meter has or has not been upgraded.

 

[drmanny3]

My experience with net metering was very different. Upon getting our solar functional, I had net metering. The old mechanical meter we had for many years was capable of net metering. So our experience was different. When I switched to TOU, I did so about half way through the month. They came out and within a week installed a digital meter. However at the end of the month they just treated it like the old tier system (5 Tiers). It was the following month where we actually were charged against the TOU. It took about 4 or 5 days for our bill to materialize. But when it did everything was fine. I understand we will get Smart meters in the next month. They will do our neighborhood first and make sure the system works then change out ours. They expect that we will have net meterming with the install of the smart meter. So it seems like SCE is learning as they go and applying that knowledge. I am really pleased with their efforts to date. I think they have done a great job supporting both solar and charging of electric vehicles.
Manny

 

[Boomer23]

My September SCE bill is in and I continue to be very pleased with my LEAF plus Solar PV plus the SCE TOU-D-TEV rate plan.

We used a total of 373 kWh MORE than we generated in September, including charging the LEAF for just over 1,000 miles of driving plus a temporarily expanded family size that added about 200 kWh to our usage. But our September SCE bill is a CREDIT of $10.75. Again, as most of you know, this is due to being credited at the high Summer Tier 2 rate of about $0.55 per kWh for Peak time solar generation, while charging at Super Off Peak after midnight at 10 to 16 cents/kWh.

This completes month #7 of my net metering year, and I've been charging our LEAF for six of those seven months. I have a total CREDIT balance of $368.59 for the net metering year to spend during the coming five months, when Peak rates (and therefore credits) will be lower, solar generation will drop, and we'll use more energy to heat and to cook. I'm still expecting to break even at the end of February, with no bill to pay SCE at "true-up" and they won't owe me anything either. (They still owe me for 2,200 kWh excess generation for the last year, anyway, and who knows if I'll ever see a dime of that! :evil: )

I'm getting very interested to learn more about SCE's plans to change their rate schedules. An SCE rep at Alt Car Expo in Santa Monica told me last Friday that once all of the Smart Meters get rolled out, SCE is going to do away with the standard Domestic Tiered rate plan, and everyone will be on Time of Use. I told him that I was concerned about a change in the the current plan, which is very advantageous to those us us with PV plus EV. He said that those of us who are currently on some of the current TOU plans would be "grandfathered" in to keep them, or something similar. But what does that mean for new PV plus EV customers?

If anyone knows what is coming in the way of rate plan changes from SCE, please let us know.

 

[mwalsh]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

 

[Boomer23]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

I'd take the check. If you are going to end the year with a net kWh surplus, you'll likely do that year after year, assuming that you've been charging your LEAF all year. So if you take roll-over credit, you'll never see the benefit of it unless you take the check.

 

[EricH]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

I'd take the check. If you are going to end the year with a net kWh surplus, you'll likely do that year after year, assuming that you've been charging your LEAF all year. So if you take roll-over credit, you'll never see the benefit of it unless you take the check.

I believe that the prices paid for "net generation" are closer to wholesale rates. I don't know the "rollover" rate, but it may be more advantageous (e.g., the "check" for 50 kWh is $2.50, but the "rollover credit" for the same 50 kWh might be $4.00), so you should check before choosing. (if the delta is only $1.50, of course, take the check ;-)

 

[HighDesertDriver]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

I'd take the check. If you are going to end the year with a net kWh surplus, you'll likely do that year after year, assuming that you've been charging your LEAF all year. So if you take roll-over credit, you'll never see the benefit of it unless you take the check.

I believe that the prices paid for "net generation" are closer to wholesale rates. I don't know the "rollover" rate, but it may be more advantageous (e.g., the "check" for 50 kWh is $2.50, but the "rollover credit" for the same 50 kWh might be $4.00), so you should check before choosing. (if the delta is only $1.50, of course, take the check ;-)

Haven't received that letter yet. For us, it will depend on the value SCE and PUC have (finally) agreed on. If the amount is $50 or less, I'll probably have them credit the account and let it cover the $1-2/month charge we currently incur under NEM. Since the Leaf has now turned us into a net consumer and we are only 6 months from true-up, the remaining balance will soon be gone. Still wrestling with the option to switch to TOU.

 

[popak]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

I'd take the check. If you are going to end the year with a net kWh surplus, you'll likely do that year after year, assuming that you've been charging your LEAF all year. So if you take roll-over credit, you'll never see the benefit of it unless you take the check.

I opted for the rollover credit but, frankly, I did not really think about it much when I sent the form back.

Either option you choose, they're going to take your surplus kWh and multiply by the wholesale rate (~$0.04/kWh) at the end of your "Relevant Period" and give you the dollar credit (so you don't really get to keep the surplus kWhs themselves, which would have been a nice buffer for peak usage). I expect to have only a moderate amount of surplus, so I figured that credit can just be used to pay off the $2 monthly bill (meter rent and all that) I get and will eventually get used (if not next year, then eventually, since I'll probably get another electric car, kids will grow up and use more electricity, and so on). If the surplus is bigger than I anticipated at the end of my first year, then I can always change my mind next year and opt for the check (you get the choice between rollover and check every year at the end of your "Relevant Period").

Of course, letting SCE keep the rollover credit is like giving them an interest-free loan. So may be check is the better choice after all

Btw, here's the letter for those who are interested: http://asset.sce.com/Documents/Shared/AB920_Letter_2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here's the FAQ: http://www.sce.com/customergeneration/nem-ab920.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tbleakne]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

I also got the letter last week. I review below the factors I am considering in this "momentous" decision.

As I expected, September was a big month for me, with lots of A/C, but also my first full month with my new 6 south-oriented solar panels in addition to my 15 SW-facing panels. Both factors pushed me far into Level-2 for the first time, just like I expected, giving me more of the very high Level-2 solar payback price. TOU gives you a higher solar payback price the more solar you have.

I consumed over 200 more Kwhrs than I produced, but with TOU I still came out with a $18 credit for the month. I applied discipline to keep almost all of my A/C usage off-peak, by cooling the house before 10AM and after 6 PM, except for weekends.

Since I had a net production credit for the month, once again I got no benefit from my participation in the A/C interruption program, as I previously reported.

I have 3 more billing cycles left in my first Net Metering year. I have a -$141 TOU cumulative energy credit, but my cumulative Kwhr credit has dropped to -327 Kwhr. I expect to run a deficit in kwhr for November through February. At a wholesale price of perhaps$.05/kwhr, a credit of maybe -150 Kwhr would be worth $7.50. My much larger TOU credit will be lost. Next year, however, I will be charging the Leaf for a full 12 months rather than 6, so I expect to come out much closer to even.

I was hoping that they might offer an option of allowing you to carryover your TOU credit into the next NM year. I probably could have used up much of the credit in January and February.

There seems to be a separate "real money" accounting for the meter itself and local tax, which is running $1.04/month. I have a cumulative credit in this account of -$14.98, which originated from erroneous estimates they made 10 months ago when they failed to read my new meter. It sounds like the pittance offered in the letter is "real money," so it could offset this charge for 7 more months. I am therefore leaning towards selecting the option of rolling-over the end-of-year credit (if there is one) to the new NM year, unless you folks say I have missed something.

BTW the current TOU-D-TEV tariff posted on SCE.com, dated June 1, 2011, has a section I have not seen before titled "Peak Time Rebate" or PTR. It sounds like it might be intended to give frugal Net Metering customers an incentive to help out during electrical shortage events, since the A/C credit program is worthless for us. I see a credit price of $.75/kwh + $.50/kwh if the customer has "enabling technology." I have not fully parsed all the legalize here, so perhaps NM customers still are left out.

http://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/CE324.pdf

 

[EricH]

BTW the current TOU-D-TEV tariff posted on SCE.com, dated June 1, 2011, has a section I have not seen before titled "Peak Time Rebate" or PTR. It sounds like it might be intended to give frugal Net Metering customers an incentive to help out during electrical shortage events, since the A/C credit program is worthless for us. I see a credit price of $.75/kwh + $.50/kwh if the customer has "enabling technology." I have not fully parsed all the legalize here, so perhaps NM customers still are left out.

http://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/CE324.pdf

PTR applies to SCE customers with interval metering enabled (e.g. SmartConnect, for most). The "Enabling Technology" is some kind of thermostat or A/C shutoff, which provides more positive-control of the load - but I don't think this is widely available yet.

The "kWh" calculation for PTR is based on the average usage for that period over the past 5 non weekend/holiday/event days. So if they call an "event" the Wednesday after Labor Day from 2-6pm, they compare your total kWh from those 4 hours to the same 4 hours the prior day (Tuesday), and the four days from the prior week (Tues-Fri); if your "event" usage is less than the average of those 5 days, you get the indicated rebate. No penalty if you exceed the average. PTR is an automatic "rider" on every Domestic rate for SCE.

I don't know if this rebate is "real money", as you characterize it in your post, but I would guess it is.

 

[Boomer23]

I just got my October TOU-D-TEV bill, month 8 of our solar net metering year, the first "winter" bill since we've had additional family living with us AND charging our LEAF. The good news is that our bill was $52.17, but that after subtracting that charge from our previous credit balance that was built up during the summer months, we still have a credit balance of $310 to cover the bills that we generate for the next four months of our year. Even with charging our LEAF for about 1,000 miles of driving per month and using an average of an additional 250 kWh per month due to the extra family members, I still project that we'll end the net metering year with zero balance due.

As I've said before, the combination of PV and EV charging is a natural and a perfect synergy. It makes good sense for all of the state's utility customers because it encourages residential solar investment, which helps to meet the state's enacted goal of increasing green energy, and it also encourages the charging of EVs at night, when electricity demand is low. I appreciate that SCE has this rate schedule available for PV customers that charge EVs. I hope that SCE doesn't feel inclined to follow SDG&E's regressive example and try to reduce the benefits of this rate schedule, or worse, look for ways to sock solar customers with a "grid use" fee.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

Not having heard from SCE in over a month, I was beginning to think we had been forgotten. However, our letter arrived yesterday. We'll be electing a check, although I am not too sure what amount that check will be for. It seems from the text of the letter and attached info that we may be paid for: (1) only the excess power generated after 1 Jan 2011 or (2) all excess power since the previous true-up in Mar 2010. At only $.04/kWh, it is not going to make much difference either way, so I'll just rest my brain.

For us the issue is pretty much overcome by events. In the current straight NEM period we still have an overall surplus, but with the addition of the Leaf I expect that we will have become "consumers" by March 2012. In 20/20 hindsight, I wish that we had elected to let the 2010 kWh roll over because the power would have been much more valuable to us now than any cash payout, check or credit.

 

[Boomer23]

I got a letter from SCE today, asking me to choose between getting a check at the end of the year and having my credit roll-over into the next period. What is everyone else leaning towards?

Not having heard from SCE in over a month, I was beginning to think we had been forgotten. However, our letter arrived yesterday. We'll be electing a check, although I am not too sure what amount that check will be for. It seems from the text of the letter and attached info that we may be paid for: (1) only the excess power generated after 1 Jan 2011 or (2) all excess power since the previous true-up in Mar 2010. At only $.04/kWh, it is not going to make much difference either way, so I'll just rest my brain.

For us the issue is pretty much overcome by events. In the current straight NEM period we still have an overall surplus, but with the addition of the Leaf I expect that we will have become "consumers" by March 2012. In 20/20 hindsight, I wish that we had elected to let the 2010 kWh roll over because the power would have been much more valuable to us now than any cash payout, check or credit.

I was wondering about where our letter was, too, and like you, ours came two days ago. I'll be taking the check. As I understand it, any NEM period that ended after 1/1/11 with a surplus of kWh would be eligible for payment, but as you say, the wording is not very specific. We had a 2,200 kWh surplus at March 1, 11, so they would owe us for that. Now that we have the LEAF, we won't be running a surplus, so it will probably be moot after this.

Regarding your comment about electing to let the 2010 kWh roll over, I don't think we've ever had that option, either in Net Metering or under standard monthly billing. In each case, before 1/1/11, all of that surplus was absorbed by SCE and we never had the option to bank the excess kWh nor a dollar credit.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Regarding your comment about electing to let the 2010 kWh roll over, I don't think we've ever had that option, either in Net Metering or under standard monthly billing. In each case, before 1/1/11, all of that surplus was absorbed by SCE and we never had the option to bank the excess kWh nor a dollar credit.

Yes, after so long, I could be wrong. I remember having two options, payout or carryover, but perhaps if payment was the only option it meant "check or credit." Anyway, as you say, the issue is now moot for us.

 

[tbleakne]

Regarding your comment about electing to let the 2010 kWh roll over, I don't think we've ever had that option, either in Net Metering or under standard monthly billing. In each case, before 1/1/11, all of that surplus was absorbed by SCE and we never had the option to bank the excess kWh nor a dollar credit.

I received my NM annual billing month #12 statement last week. It shows:
cumulative energy charge Year-to-Date: -$181.33
cumulative kWh Year-to-Date: -292
(note $181.33/292 = $.62/kWh !)
credit balance -$11.08

I believe "credit balance" is real money. If it is positive, I would expect they bill you monthly. If I had elected to carry over my true-up payment for surplus kWh at the wholesale rate, those $ would have gone into this account. This account is being charged only $1.02/month for the meter, a local utility tax, and some state tax.

Despite my best efforts to "lavishly" spend kWh this last month, I only incurred for the month:
net deficit = 52 kWh
Energy Charge +1.44

I was expecting to see on this statement the "true-up" calculation in which my wonderful surpluses are zeroed out. Will that appear next month ? I am expecting a bigger deficit this month. Will the account be zeroed out before or after this current month's charges ?

 

[Boomer23]

I was expecting to see on this statement the "true-up" calculation in which my wonderful surpluses are zeroed out. Will that appear next month ? I am expecting a bigger deficit this month. Will the account be zeroed out before or after this current month's charges ?

Here's how I think it works, Tom. As of the end of your month #12, all of your balances are zeroed out for the beginning of your new net metering year. So for your month #1 of your new NMY, your year-to-date totals will be the same as your month #1 totals.

For your net surplus of 292 kWh, you should be paid at the low rate that SCE and the CPUC agreed on. I thought that it was going to be about 4 cents/kWh, but if you are correct and your credit balance is the amount that they'll pay you, it only works out to 3.8 cents/kWh. Still, better than zero, but it's about the amount that they pay DWP for their cheap energy, right?

Judging by this chart, referenced in a thread above, that 3.8 cents is about right. http://www.sce.com/AboutSCE/Regulatory/tariffbooks/ratespricing/nscr.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;