Official Southern California Edison thread

[fooljoe]

I meant usage in general terms, i.e. positive or negative usage. I think that what you are seeing is an effect of the transition and not a routine thing, unless it is a billing software glitch, see last paragraph below.

BTW, are you on a single meter or a dual meter TOU plan? I'm assuming single meter by the rates you are showing.

I haven't seen that type of display on my SCE page, probably that is because I don't yet have a smart meter. But I thought that SCE hasn't yet figured out how to handle solar net metering along with TOU billing on a smart meter, hence everyone with solar and TOU is on a manually read meter. If you have a smart meter and they are using it for TOU billing, maybe the strange billing behavior is caused by a problem with SCE's programming for billing TOU and solar PV on a smart meter. If so, you definitely should call their attention to it.

Unless they have a new approval from the CPUC, which I think we would know about, they need to be spreading the billing tiers across all three time ranges so that you get credits at Tier 2 for some of your solar production if you are seeing billings for any of your usage at Tier 2.

I'm on a single meter. They put me on a smart meter a while back, then came out again to change it to a net metering - capable smart meter. I guess the original smart meter wasn't quite smart enough. With the current meter they definitely have all the information they need to get the TOU net metering thing right, as long as their software works.

Check out the cool display you can see on their page with a smart meter:

Seeing how Aeolus has seen similar delays maybe their software is the problem and they know it. I bet the bill I saw is just an attempt to "manually" adjust my old bill, but I think I'll call in the morning to make sure.

 

[fooljoe]

Unless they have a new approval from the CPUC, which I think we would know about, they need to be spreading the billing tiers across all three time ranges so that you get credits at Tier 2 for some of your solar production if you are seeing billings for any of your usage at Tier 2.

Do you have some reference for this requirement so I can bring it up when I call?

 

[Boomer23]

Unless they have a new approval from the CPUC, which I think we would know about, they need to be spreading the billing tiers across all three time ranges so that you get credits at Tier 2 for some of your solar production if you are seeing billings for any of your usage at Tier 2.

Do you have some reference for this requirement so I can bring it up when I call?

I don't, sorry. This is just the understanding that I've developed from conversations and reading.

 

[fooljoe]

Ok, I just got off the phone with SCE, and it seems like everything's ok. That graphic from their website that makes it look like I don't get any credits at level 2 for on peak and off peak while being billed at level 2 in super off peak is just incorrect.

My detailed bill just came out last night and when I look at that I see that during on peak -149 went to level 1 and -118 went to level 2, and off peak shows -21 and -17, while super off peak was 201/157. The charge of $2.05 I saw was just for taxes, while my actual generation charge was -10.69.

Hopefully SCE fixes what their website shows to avoid further confusion like this.

 

[Boomer23]

Ok, I just got off the phone with SCE, and it seems like everything's ok. That graphic from their website that makes it look like I don't get any credits at level 2 for on peak and off peak while being billed at level 2 in super off peak is just incorrect.

My detailed bill just came out last night and when I look at that I see that during on peak -149 went to level 1 and -118 went to level 2, and off peak shows -21 and -17, while super off peak was 201/157. The charge of $2.05 I saw was just for taxes, while my actual generation charge was -10.69.

Hopefully SCE fixes what their website shows to avoid further confusion like this.

Excellent! Glad to hear that you are on track, and congratulations on getting a clear answer from the right person at SCE. In the past, that had been a challenge, since the combination of TOU and net metering is pretty uncommon and the knowledge base at SCE seems to be pretty fragmented.

I thought I had a good handle on the way SCE does billing, so this was starting to rock my world a bit. :roll:

 

[hill]

So I got solar installed back in March and I finally saw my first net metering statement today, but it's leaving me a bit befuddled. Let me see if I have this right. Here's how it breaks down:

On peak: -267 @ .14 = -37.38
Off peak: -38 @ .13 = -4.94
Super off peak, tier 1: 275 @ .11 = 30.25
Super off peak, tier 2: 83 @ .17 = 14.11
For a total of 2.04

The Super off peak, tier 2 part is what I don't get. I've always tried to charge as much as possible in SOP, but now it seems that once I go into tier 2 it would make more sense to charge off peak or even on peak. How ridiculous is that? Can anyone confirm that I'm doing this right? If my understanding is correct then by shifting that 83 kwh from SOP, tier 2 to either on peak or off peak I would have a negative overall total. Seems bass-ackward but I guess that's how it works.

So, do you have pic's of your meter? How are you determining on peak / off peak / values?

Ok, I just got off the phone with SCE, and it seems like everything's ok. That graphic from their website that makes it look like I don't get any credits at level 2 for on peak and off peak while being billed at level 2 in super off peak is just incorrect.

My detailed bill just came out last night and when I look at that I see that during on peak -149 went to level 1 and -118 went to level 2, and off peak shows -21 and -17, while super off peak was 201/157. The charge of $2.05 I saw was just for taxes, while my actual generation charge was -10.69.

Hopefully SCE fixes what their website shows to avoid further confusion like this.

Can you determine what difference there would be if you had simply been on a standard grid tied plan where you're credited at higher tiers when your monthly surplus enters higher tiers?

 

[fooljoe]

So, do you have pic's of your meter? How are you determining on peak / off peak / values?

I logged into my account at sce.com to get the values.

Can you determine what difference there would be if you had simply been on a standard grid tied plan where you're credited at higher tiers when your monthly surplus enters higher tiers?

By standard you mean non-Time of Use? I guess I could determine what the difference would be, if I knew what the non-TOU rates were. But I ultimately determined that I am being credited/charged at the higher tiers correctly across all of the on peak, off peak, and super off peak periods - it's just that the graphic on their website wasn't displaying it correctly. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Aeolus]

Amazingly enough, I am still waiting for SCE to generate any bill for me since they converted me to net-metering March 6th. Phone calls, emails, a formal complaint to the PUC, and they still cannot manage to generate monthly billing statements.

Their excuse is that sooooooo many people switched to solar at the end of the year that they can't get caught up on converting the accounts over, even though they are working as hard as they can.

I might give some credence to this, except I recall that my solar company completed a rebate application months before my solar panels were installed, so it's not like SCE should have been absolutely gobsmacked with surprise when the people who reserved rebates actually completed systems on their roofs/

It sounds like every customer's time of use, net metering artisan software needs to be hand-crafted, after their accounting department finishes with their abacuses and they check every one and zero in their digital feed to make sure there aren't any stray 2's or 5's.

Seriously, does anyone know what's going on here. SCE is adding 1.2 billion to the bills of their customers to cover conversion to Smart Meters and they can't make them work?

 

[Leland]

Seriously, does anyone know what's going on here. SCE is adding 1.2 billion to the bills of their customers to cover conversion to Smart Meters and they can't make them work?

Don't hold your breath on this getting fixed anytime soon. I switched to TOU back in May 2011 and had a 4kwh PV system installed August 2011. The billing was all over the place in 2011. This year it has gotten much worse. So far I have only had two bills generated. The first was January 26, 2012 and the second was February 25, 2012. Since then, no bills.

 

[hill]

We just got our 1st PV surplus payback check from SCE . . . Almost $200 . . . yep - good to be in the green
Anyone else over producing? SCE pays a whopping 2.9¢ per kWh. Yea - don't spend it all in one place. Oh well, it's better than the big zero we used to get.

 

[Aeolus]

My PUC complaint produced a call from the SCE corporate office.

Still no bill since I switched to Net Metering March 6th, but now I have a new person from the corporate assuring me that they are going to get right around to getting bills to me right quick.

"There is no problem with your meter, sir."

"Well then, why did SCE convince the PUC to allow you to bill $1.2 billion for Smart Meters that can't generate bills for exactly the type of users who you needed Smart Meters to support? What is the problem, and why do the people in the net metering department keep making up new stories."

"I don't know, but I'm going to call over there and find out."

"Good luck with that."

 

[Boomer23]

We just got our 1st PV surplus payback check from SCE . . . Almost $200 . . . yep - good to be in the green
Anyone else over producing? SCE pays a whopping 2.9¢ per kWh. Yea - don't spend it all in one place. Oh well, it's better than the big zero we used to get.

That reminds me. They owe me about $80 for my surplus 2200 kWh generated from two years ago. They promised me they'd "get on it" real quick. So much for that. I gotta call them again.

 

[Boomer23]

We just got our 1st PV surplus payback check from SCE . . . Almost $200 . . . yep - good to be in the green
Anyone else over producing? SCE pays a whopping 2.9¢ per kWh. Yea - don't spend it all in one place. Oh well, it's better than the big zero we used to get.

That reminds me. They owe me about $80 for my surplus 2200 kWh generated from two years ago. They promised me they'd "get on it" real quick. So much for that. I gotta call them again.

I got my $77 check for my over-generation for the net metering year ended February 2011, about 16 months ago. I didn't have to make any further calls. Looks like SCE is just getting their act together to get these generation bills paid after the Assembly bill went into law.

Strangely enough, in looking at my June/July 2012 bill, SCE appears to have added the kWh that they paid me for onto my net kWh USED for my current net metering year. This won't have any effect on my bill, but I'll probably call them to report the issue, just so that they know that it's an error.

Just to be clear about that, here's what I mean:
For my May/June bill, SCE showed a total net kWh usage year to date (reduced by solar generation) of 758 kWh.
My June/July net usage was 60 kWh, BUT my new total new usage for the year to date is 3,093 kWh.
That's 2,275 kWh more than I used for the four month period, and that 2,275 kWh about equals the amount of over-generation that SCE paid off, dating from February 2011.

 

[brownga]

Does anyone have contact info, name and phone number, for a manager in the net metering or billing group for SCE? I went on net metering in May 2011 and everything was fine until I asked to be changed to TOU-D-EV in Oct 2011. At that point the analog net meter was replaced with a net metering smart meter which shows KWHs consumed from the grid and KWHs sent to the grid. After two months SCE replaced this meter because it "wasn't communicating". When they did the switch they apparently didn't record the old meters values, at least they've not been able to tell me what they were, and to make matters worse they put in a smart meter that only recorded KWHs consumed. After two months of repeated assurances from the SCE net metering customer service staff that the new meter was fine they sent out someone to check on it and the SCE meterman said it was obviously the wrong meter and he installed another two channel smart meter. So from Oct 2011 to mid Feb 2012 all of my net generation wasn't recorded, and by the way I wasn't receiving any bills during this entire time. I kept asking them if they would somehow credit me for my net generation and they assured me they would. When I finally received a bill in late June their was no credit for my net generation. After another two months of calling them weekly and two efforts at them re-doing my bill I got a bill with a "policy adjustment", and a late charge! I'm not happy with the amount of the adjustment but right now the customer service manager that I've been dealing with won't even call me back so I'm looking for others I can talk to about it. I did finally file a complaint with the CPUC this week but so far no response from them, even to give me a reference case number. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Aeolus]

Does anyone have contact info, name and phone number, for a manager in the net metering or billing group for SCE? I went on net metering in May 2011 and everything was fine until I asked to be changed to TOU-D-EV in Oct 2011. At that point the analog net meter was replaced with a net metering smart meter which shows KWHs consumed from the grid and KWHs sent to the grid. After two months SCE replaced this meter because it "wasn't communicating". When they did the switch they apparently didn't record the old meters values, at least they've not been able to tell me what they were, and to make matters worse they put in a smart meter that only recorded KWHs consumed. After two months of repeated assurances from the SCE net metering customer service staff that the new meter was fine they sent out someone to check on it and the SCE meterman said it was obviously the wrong meter and he installed another two channel smart meter. So from Oct 2011 to mid Feb 2012 all of my net generation wasn't recorded, and by the way I wasn't receiving any bills during this entire time. I kept asking them if they would somehow credit me for my net generation and they assured me they would. When I finally received a bill in late June their was no credit for my net generation. After another two months of calling them weekly and two efforts at them re-doing my bill I got a bill with a "policy adjustment", and a late charge! I'm not happy with the amount of the adjustment but right now the customer service manager that I've been dealing with won't even call me back so I'm looking for others I can talk to about it. I did finally file a complaint with the CPUC this week but so far no response from them, even to give me a reference case number. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

It takes a while for the CPUC complaint process to kick into gear. You will get a letter from the CPUC and about thirty days after your original complaint was filed, you will receive a call from SCE's corporate office where someone will actually follow up on your complaint. Then it takes another month or so for them to do anything.

SCE has convinced the PUC that they needed to invest over a billion in ratepayers' money in smart meters so they could do things like time of use and net energy metering. Their abject failure to do this on a timely or accurate basis needs to be communicated repeatedly to the PUC.

 

[hill]

It takes a while for the CPUC complaint process to kick into gear. You will get a letter from the CPUC and about thirty days after your original complaint was filed, you will receive a call from SCE's corporate office where someone will actually follow up on your complaint. Then it takes another month or so for them to do anything.

SCE has convinced the PUC that they needed to invest over a billion in ratepayers' money in smart meters so they could do things like time of use and net energy metering. Their abject failure to do this on a timely or accurate basis needs to be communicated repeatedly to the PUC.

After lodging a similar complaint (to the PUC) to the one above, it became evident how strong the bias is to lean in favor of the utility company (sigh).

.

 

[BudRaymond]

FYI, if S.C.E. fails to bill you within 60 days of usage, they have violated CPUC tariff and you don't have to pay. They once sent me an annual bill 12 months late back when net metering data was all entered manually into accounts from meter reads. I first called the CPUC and then called SCE to inform them of their mistake. Account was immediately adjusted to zero due.

 

[brownga]

Are you sure it's 60 days? SCE has told me 90 days. Also, it's not clear to me how that works with net metering where you only pay for your usage once a year. Does it mean that if they don't provide a monthly statement for several months you don't have to pay for those months exceeding 60 (90) days or only if they're more than 60 (90) days late with the annual bill you don't have to pay?

 

[Aeolus]

Also, it's not clear to me how that works with net metering where you only pay for your usage once a year. Does it mean that if they don't provide a monthly statement for several months you don't have to pay for those months exceeding 60 (90) days or only if they're more than 60 (90) days late with the annual bill you don't have to pay?

Or does it mean that they waive the small monthly fee, and cheat you out of your excess net generation.

That appears to be their plan for the first month I was on net metering.

I am still amazed that they are being allowed to recover the money from ratepayers for their Smart Meter costs when the Smart Meters don't do what they promised - allow for simple billing of complex rates like time of use with net metering.

 

[Boomer23]

I have a little SCE saga to report.

I've been on net metering for over 5 years and on TOU-D-TEV for 18 months. SCE finally installed my smart meter on August 13. And ever since then, SCE hasn't been able to bill me. On Saturday, about 45 days later, a meter reader came out to take a manual reading. He appeared to be some kind of high level meter reader/tech guy. He said that SCE hadn't been able to make contact with my smart meter and that they might have to install a new one (or a non-smart meter, it wasn't clear). He said that SCE has been having trouble connecting with thousands of smart meters along the coastline due to air conditions (he said salt, sand, etc... sand???), and that they were looking at needing to swap many of them out for manually read meters. This after they laid off all of the meter readers.

This should be interesting...