Official Tesla Model S thread

[evnow]

Yes, Ryan Salomone, the author of that article, owns 100 Tesla shares according to his profile. He also goes on to state that the Leaf had 'poor sales'. I'm surprised to see the wide news coverage articles on Seeking Alpha get. It's hardly anything more than a glorified blog.

The quality of articles varies a lot just like it does in our forum.

Most of the people who write there are into making money quickly rather than any real understanding of the business or companies. They have a very superficial understanding as this "poor sales" comment shows. Here is another commnt he makes about Leaf "The 47-mile range is a compelling reason not to buy."

And here is the kicker ... :lol:

When the most compelling technologies in an industry are centered in one company, that company has a bright future.

 

[edatoakrun]

... Tesla has not released the Model S. It may not be obvious to consumers, but those in the industry understand that the race is on to dethrone Tesla as the leader in electric car technology and soon electric car production.

When the most compelling technologies in an industry are centered in one company, that company has a bright future. My personal prediction is high, so I will simply say, TSLA is a buy.

Disclosure: I am long TSLA.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/316974-electric-cars-tesla-leads-the-wave-of-the-future?source=yahoo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The first comment there beat me to it...

shorting TSLA tomorrow at market open

 

[surfingslovak]

The quality of articles varies a lot just like it does in our forum.

Yes, absolutely. The problem is how to filter out the noise effectively. Ryan's article has been referenced on both Google and Yahoo Finance, which arguably have a very wide audience. I'm just thinking out loud, but have you considered writing for Seeking Alpha?

And here is the kicker ... :lol:

When the most compelling technologies in an industry are centered in one company, that company has a bright future.

I think one of Ryan's recent comments might just take the cake.

For hydrogen be viable, the energy cost of separating the hydrogen in water must be less than the energy created by converting it back to water in the exhaust of the vehicle. If this were possible, we would have a method for infinite electricity which contradicts Einstein's theory E=MC2.

 

[evnow]

For hydrogen be viable, the energy cost of separating the hydrogen in water must be less than the energy created by converting it back to water in the exhaust of the vehicle. If this were possible, we would have a method for infinite electricity which contradicts Einstein's theory E=MC2.

I guess e=mc**2 is the most misused formula.

 

[Herm]

If you manufacture H2 to be used as energy storage it does not have to be perfect to be useful*.. after all batteries are not perfect either.

* space rockets

 

[edatoakrun]

Comments below continued from:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5657&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"palmermd"]
...In regard to Tesla, yes they have stated that only the 60 and 85kWh packs will have the DC quick charge capability. Not the 40kWh...

This is, IMO, the most bizarre part of the Tesla S marketing plan.
Don't give DC charging, to the shortest range cars, that need it the most?
...

With 60/85 their "Supercharger network" only needs to have DC QC Superchargers ~230 miles apart, not ~160. So less need to build infrastructure. Also, the 40kW is trying to meet a low entry price point, so leaving off any extra hardware is useful towards that goal. But, at the end of the day, the real reason may be that the smaller battery pack may have trouble accepting that much energy so quickly. To go along with the entry cost goal they may consider using a less expensive cell chemistry that is less amenable to quick charging.

So, a $20 k (with tax credit) Mitsubishi has batteries suitable for DC charging, but it would be too expensive to put them in a $50 k Tesla?

Do you believe the 2-ton 60 kWh Tesla S, will go 230 miles on one charge, at freeway speeds?

And that drivers will always find it convenient to stop, exactly where the chargers are?

There has to be redundancy and overlapping range for DC charge stations just as there are for gas stations today.

I Believe the Oregon/Washington network on I-5, is placing DC stations about 30-40 miles apart.

Stations spaced somewhere around 50% of maximum range of the vehicles served, seems about the minimum, to me, for reasonably convenient DC use, by BEV drivers.

BTW, how long will it take to charge the 60/85 Teslas?

Can they charge at the fastest rate, right up to 100%?

 

[edatoakrun]

Serial entrepreneur Elon Musk says SpaceX is developing a plan for trips to Mars that will eventually cost just $500,000 per seat. Musk founded SpaceX 10 years ago and interplanetary travel has always been one of his goals for the company. Few details were provided about the Martian voyage, but Musk did say we can expect to hear more about the plan in less than a year.

The bargain basement price for a trip to Mars also highlights Musk’s main effort behind SpaceX, to bring down the cost of delivering a payload — human or cargo — into space. In an interview with the BBC, Musk acknowledged the first seats won’t be selling for $500,000. It will take a while to get down to that price. But Musk says the half-million dollar ticket could happen a decade after trips begin.

“Land on Mars, a round-trip ticket — half a million dollars. It can be done,” he told the BBC...

The $500,000 price tag is around one percent of the cost NASA is currently paying to send a person to the space station on a Russian Soyuz rocket. Though it should be mentioned that the $50 million trip with the Russians is a known quantity at this point and so far SpaceX has only had four successful rocket launches...

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/03/elon-musk-says-ticket-to-mars-will-cost-500000/#more-43825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps Musk's cost-saving plan, is not building a single rocket, but, instead, strapping thousands of small ones together?

 

[TEG]

BTW, how long will it take to charge the { 60kWh & 85kWh } Teslas?
Can they charge at the fastest rate, right up to 100%?

I don't know the answer for sure to those questions, but there is this info:
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supercharger Access
Tesla is building a network of Superchargers throughout North America. The Supercharger is an industrial grade, high speed charger designed to replenish 160 miles of travel in about 30 minutes when applied to the 85 kWh vehicle. This is roughly the amount of time it takes to have lunch or dinner at a highway rest stop after a three hour drive, making cross country travel an easy proposition. Includes all software and on-board hardware.

 

[edatoakrun]

BTW, how long will it take to charge the { 60kWh & 85kWh } Teslas?
Can they charge at the fastest rate, right up to 100%?

I don't know the answer for sure to those questions, but there is this info:
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supercharger Access
Tesla is building a network of Superchargers throughout North America. The Supercharger is an industrial grade, high speed charger designed to replenish 160 miles of travel in about 30 minutes when applied to the 85 kWh vehicle. This is roughly the amount of time it takes to have lunch or dinner at a highway rest stop after a three hour drive, making cross country travel an easy proposition. Includes all software and on-board hardware.

Looks they saying 40 kWh, for 160 miles at 53 mph, just a little bit lower m/kWh than stated for the lighter 40 kWh model.

What you think, almost 2 hours of driving, 140 miles at 70 mph (You need to stay mostly in the right lane on I-5, at that speed), between recharge sessions?

They'll need to install 2 or 3 "superchargers" (and drivers will have plenty of time for "second breakfast") between SF and LA, at that range.

But, at least in theory, couldn't the S's ATM mean, that a charge could continue, at a higher rate, for a greater percentage of the total battery capacity, than for the non ATM LEAF?

That's the question, I was getting at, how long would a full 60 or 85 kWh charge take?

I'm wondering, how long you might have to wait behind one of these, at a NON-Tesla DC charge-point.

 

[TEG]

Just some more recollections:

Typical CHAdeMO is 50kW, Tesla Supercharger is 90kW.
(So nearly 2x quicker per mile to charge a 230 or 300 mile range Model S)

No demonstration of any ability to charge Model S from CHAdeMO or LEAF from Tesla Supercharger.
Interoperability is uncertain at this point.

I don't know what Tesla plans to do with regards to fill to 80% vs fill to 100%.
I would speculate it might be like LEAF - full current up to 80% then charging slows down. It may be able to detect battery temps and adjust current flow accordingly.
My understanding is that internal cell resistance goes up as you approach 100% so you have to be careful not to overheat the cells at that point.

 

[surfingslovak]

I would speculate it might be like LEAF - full current up to 80% then charging slows down. It may be able to detect battery temps and adjust current flow accordingly.

Right, yes, that's very likely. I really look forward to seeing the Model S on the road. That's the car I was waiting for, but then life happend. I might still consider Model X.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Tesla's intent to build this super charger network is laudable, but until i see some installed, i am going have to think they will see a bit more pushback than they bargained for.

 

[KevinSharpe]

Tesla's intent to build this super charger network is laudable, but until i see some installed, i am going have to think they will see a bit more pushback than they bargained for.

Agreed... even with free CHAdeMO DC Fast Chargers it's proving difficult to get large numbers installed. I think Tesla will have an uphill battle because the chargers are proprietary and 90kW is a serious amount of power for many smaller locations.

 

[edatoakrun]

Just some more recollections:

Typical CHAdeMO is 50kW, Tesla Supercharger is 90kW.
(So nearly 2x quicker per mile to charge a 230 or 300 mile range Model S)

No demonstration of any ability to charge Model S from CHAdeMO or LEAF from Tesla Supercharger.
Interoperability is uncertain at this point...

My understanding is that internal cell resistance goes up as you approach 100% so you have to be careful not to overheat the cells at that point.

My recollection is that Tesla announced they could equip the fast-charge versions of the S (60 and 85 kw) to use any DC fast charger, but of course, they may take hours to charge at 50 kW CHAdeMO (or SAE, if there ever are any) sites, depending on how much the charge rate tapers, as the battery pack near 100%.

Again, my question is how well the S's battery Active Thermal Management is likely to work, to (possibly) allow continued higher rate charging, when closer to 100% capacity, than that of the LEAF, which has no ATM.

It's a little inconvenient, when you have to wait 5 minutes behind a large truck at the pump, while it fills up with 40 gallons of gas. It Could be really inconvenient, to be behind an 85 kWh BEV, taking 2 or 3 hours, to get a large kWh charge, at a 50 kWh public DC "fast" charger.

This is the extreme case, of course, for the argument in favor of putting multiple charge outlets, at each DC fast charge point.

 

[glemieux]

Slightly relevant to this topic: I had a interesting exchanging with a Tesla employee on the Dumbarton Bridge today. On the Dumbarton while commuting to work in my Leaf; and he was in a separate car. I was in the center lane and a street-kitted VW GTI rolled up on the right lane. He had his window down and flashed his Tesla employee badge and a big smile to me as he passed by. Not sure what that was about...EV solidarity, perhaps?

I caught up to him on the 101 and he did the same thing again. I wish I had my wits about me and had rolled down the front passenger window so I could have asked him. I simply gave him a peace sign and thumbs up. Maybe I'll see him again on the commute sometime.

 

[smkettner]

I would speculate it might be like LEAF - full current up to 80% then charging slows down. It may be able to detect battery temps and adjust current flow accordingly.

Right, yes, that's very likely. I really look forward to seeing the Model S on the road. That's the car I was waiting for, but then life happend. I might still consider Model X.

Tesla has active temperature management yes? I would think the cooling would operate full capacity during a QC.

 

[Bassman]

A friend of mine was seriously thinking about ordering an S, but then he saw one in San Jose at some demo for prospective buyers and thought the interior was not of a high enough standard for the price. He ended up buying the new Lincoln MK Hybrid.

 

[Boomer23]

The first official Tesla internal range and efficiency data are discussed on Tesla's internal blog about the Model S today.

Lots of interesting stuff to read there. My most important takeaway was that for the 85 kWh battery pack, a Model S driven at 70 mph would get a range of about 240 miles, about 80% of Tesla's nameplate for that pack of 300 miles. At a constant 55 mph, their data claim a range of slightly more than 300 miles. Quite impressive.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

The first official Tesla internal range and efficiency data are discussed on Tesla's internal blog about the Model S today.

Lots of interesting stuff to read there. My most important takeaway was that for the 85 kWh battery pack, a Model S driven at 70 mph would get a range of about 240 miles, about 80% of Tesla's nameplate for that pack of 300 miles. At a constant 55 mph, their data claim a range of slightly more than 300 miles. Quite impressive.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The larger and heavier, S 85 gets somewhat lower m/kWh than a LEAF, at all speeds.

The S 85 range at actual California left-lane freeway speeds, is close to 200 miles, depending on grades and climate control use.

A good illustration, that increasing battery capacity of any ~20 kWh available BEV by about four times, will only about triple the range, and more than double the price.

I think I'll probably stick with 20-30 kWh BEVs, and wait for fast charging, thanks.

 

[Herm]

I think I'll probably stick with 20-30 kWh BEVs, and wait for fast charging, thanks.

You sure is not a case of the Fox and the Grapes syndrome?