Phoenix metro-area

[TickTock]

My commute is 25 miles each way, about half of that is freeway at 75mph, the other half on surface streets. I have another 14 mile errand I run each night. So about 64 miles total. When I first got the car, I could do it all on 80% charge. This summer I switched to 100% charge (after 1 year of ownership) to do it and now I have to top off for an hour after getting home from work before running the errand. Unless you drive those 60 miles slowly, you will need to find a place to charge at work at some point between three to five years of ownership or get a new car (or battery if they are made available by then). Other then that, it's a great car. I love mine and intend to keep it for many years to come but expect a costly battery replacement within a few years (no one knows what this will cost but it is probably somewhere north of 5K).

 

[myleaf]

Hi all,

I was referred by surfingslovak to this thread. I live in Chandler and need to commute exactly 60 miles a day. I was thinking to get a LEAF but worried about the range and battery capacity loss issue. Does anyone here drive around 60 miles a day? Can you share your experience in terms of range and battery capacity issue?

Thank you.

I also live in Chandler but have a shorter commute. It really depends on how much freeway and surface street driving you do. Based on my experience, after two summers you may be able to go 60 miles with a 100% charge if driving mostly on surface streets with having to run the charge down below low battery warning. It could work for you if you are able to charge at work or along the way.

 

[LEAFfan]

My commute is 25 miles each way, about half of that is freeway at 75mph, the other half on surface streets. I have another 14 mile errand I run each night. So about 64 miles total. When I first got the car, I could do it all on 80% charge. This summer I switched to 100% charge (after 1 year of ownership) to do it and now I have to top off for an hour after getting home from work before running the errand. Unless you drive those 60 miles slowly, you will need to find a place to charge at work at some point between three to five years of ownership or get a new car (or battery if they are made available by then). Other then that, it's a great car. I love mine and intend to keep it for many years to come but expect a costly battery replacement within a few years (no one knows what this will cost but it is probably somewhere north of 5K).

First, nat is planning only a two year lease. Going 75mph drastically reduces range and increases battery degradation. If nat goes 65 (66 on the Speedo), 60 miles is very doable. If I were leasing, I'd wait for the 2013 (prob Jan./Feb.) since it will have improved range and many other changes.

 

[naterry]

Thank you for the reply. Looks like my option is to lease either a 2013 LEAF later or a Focus Electric now.

Just curiosity. Did you all know the battery issue (in hot weather) when purchasing your LEAF? Is there any advantage to purchase a EV rather than to lease it?

 

[turbo2ltr]

I would lease, and I would wait until the 2014.

60 miles at 65 with my 2 year old battery is really pushing it. And not doable in the summer with A/C and reduced capacity.

 

[naterry]

One more question. If I lease a LEAF, when I return the car, can I keep the HOV plate to use in my next car (assume next car is also HOV plate eligible)? Or the plate needs to go back to dealer?

 

[myleaf]

One more question. If I lease a LEAF, when I return the car, can I keep the HOV plate to use in my next car (assume next car is also HOV plate eligible)? Or the plate needs to go back to dealer?

If you plan to get another EV, Plug-in, other alt fuel vehicle you should be able to get a new HOV plate for it, unless the rules change. I have never leased a car so I do not know if you can retain the plates. Even so, I do not believe you can put this on a hybrid (such as Prius) which only a limited number of vehicles 5000 ? are allowed to use the HOV lanes.

 

[WetEV]

I live in Chandler and need to commute exactly 60 miles a day.

You didn't mention if you have reliable charging at work.

60 miles (roundtrip commute) without a recharge is beyond what can be recomended.

30 miles (one way commute, with charging at both ends) should be very reasonable, even with an end of life battery.

Battery replacement costs are unknown, in hot areas buying is high risk until this changes. Leasing has milage limits, make sure you will not exceed them.

Best also read the battery life wiki.

 

[naterry]

If you plan to get another EV, Plug-in, other alt fuel vehicle you should be able to get a new HOV plate for it, unless the rules change. I have never leased a car so I do not know if you can retain the plates. Even so, I do not believe you can put this on a hybrid (such as Prius) which only a limited number of vehicles 5000 ? are allowed to use the HOV lanes.

Does plug-in qualify for the HOV plate?

 

[turbo2ltr]

As far as I know, the vehicle has to be an AFV....i.e. not use gasoline at all, must use CNG, Propane, Electricity, etc, exclusively. So plugin hybrids are not accepted. The only exception is the 10000 plates they issued hybrid stickers for, which are no longer available unless you buy a car with it already.

 

[turbo2ltr]

http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/vehicle/mvdplate.asp#AltFuel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Must be powered exclusively by liquefied petroleum gas(LPG, propane), natural gas(CNG/LNG), a blend of 70% alternative fuel and 30% petroleum-based fuel, hydrogen, solar, or electric (excluding golf carts).

Bi-fuel vehicles once could use this plate, but apparently not anymore.

http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/alternativefuel.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bi-fuel vehicles (vehicles that can operate on gasoline and another fuel independently) may not be registered as AFVs and receive the Alternative Fuel license plate, effective September 30, 2009. As a result, the vehicles are no longer eligible to receive the reduced vehicle license tax (VLT) and may not be driven in the High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes with less than two occupants (including the driver) during peak hours.

 

[myleaf]

As far as I know, the vehicle has to be an AFV....i.e. not use gasoline at all, must use CNG, Propane, Electricity, etc, exclusively. So plugin hybrids are not accepted. The only exception is the 10000 plates they issued hybrid stickers for, which are no longer available unless you buy a car with it already.

naterry, sorry for the miss-information. The Plug in Prius does not qualify for a HOV plate (I thought it did)

 

[GerryAZ]

Naterry,

Your commute is a little longer than mine so I am concerned that you will be right at the limit with battery degradation toward the end of a two-year lease, depending on the speed you drive on the freeway. Air conditioning is very efficient so it really does not impact range, especially in freeway driving. You will need to avoid using the heater on battery power (preheating while plugged in works great) once you have some battery deterioration. The Leaf's power train is very efficient over its entire speed range so differences in driving conditions result in noticeable differences in energy consumption and range. Speed has a major impact on range (see charts prepared by Tony Williams for details).

My commute is 52 miles round trip with about 10 of those on surface streets and the rest freeway (I-17 with 101 at north end and I-10 at south end). I add a few miles on surface streets in the evening so my typical distance between charging is 55 to 65 miles. I have no concerns about my normal commute and can take another vehicle for evening errands if remaining charge is too low. I have a couple different occasional weekend destinations which are right at 60 miles round trip with about 55 of those on freeways. I can still make those trips with cruise control set at 70 mi/hr actual speed, tires inflated to 44 psi, and normal air conditioning use if I precool while plugged in to get as much charge as possible into my deteriorated battery. The last time, I arrived home with almost nothing left after receiving the first low battery warning at between 40 and 45 miles. I would not want to cut it that close on a daily basis and will drop the speed to provide a little cushion the next time I make that trip. I hope this gives you an idea what you might see toward the end of a two-year lease.

Other vehicles to consider:
The Chevrolet Volt is a great car, but it is not a true alternative fuel vehicle and thus does not qualify for reduced registration fees and HOV lane access in Arizona. The Ford Focus Electric has the same size battery and weighs a bit more than the Leaf so it will be interesting to see what the real world range is. The Tesla S would handle your commute with ease. You can see them and get more information at the Tesla display store in the Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall.

Gerry
(message moved from other thread)

 

[naterry]

You didn't mention if you have reliable charging at work.

No, I don't have charging station at work location. I checked and there are some around my office but they are not free.

 

[naterry]

@Gerry, thanks a lot for the detail info. I wish LEAF can just go extra 10 miles, then I should have no problem to commute 60 miles a day.

Besides the fuel cost, for me, the other reason to get a EV is to be able to drive HOV lane during rush hours so I can get to office/home earlier. If I need to take a lot of surface streets, it actually doesn't save me travel time.

Did your battery lose a lot capacity after the summer?

PS. I checked Focus Electric discussion forum and found the car has some problems even can just stop working when stoping at signal. Model S, with 60kw battery, costs $67,400 and has no lease option...

 

[myleaf]

@Gerry, thanks a lot for the detail info. I wish LEAF can just go extra 10 miles, then I should have no problem to commute 60 miles a day.

Besides the fuel cost, for me, the other reason to get a EV is to be able to drive HOV lane during rush hours so I can get to office/home earlier. If I need to take a lot of surface streets, it actually doesn't save me travel time.

Did your battery lose a lot capacity after the summer?

PS. I checked Focus Electric discussion forum and found the car has some problems even can just stop working when stoping at signal. Model S, with 60kw battery, costs $67,400 and has no lease option...

Using the HOV lanes was one of the reasons I chose the Leaf: But

In the HOV lanes you should keep up with the flow of traffic. In your situation where you are trying to get the maximum range, using the HOV lanes may require you to drive faster or at more variable speeds (acceleration and deceleration) which may cause more variability in your range.
This is why I usually avoid the HOV lanes unless to get around a congested area.

 

[turbo2ltr]

This is why I usually avoid the HOV lanes unless to get around a congested area.

+1

I'm rarely in the HOV lane (I try very hard to not travel during peak times), but when I do, it's because the traffic is going slower than my normal 63mph. And as soon as the rest of the traffic is going the same, I move over.

I just get pissed because SO many non- high occupancy vehicles use the lane because there is zero enforcement. There isn't a day I don't see someone in there that's not supposed to be. In NY, you can only get into the HOV lane at designated spots (even though it's just road lines) which I don't really like, but crossing into the lane outside of the designated areas or being in the lane when you aren't supposed to is a large fine and several points on your license for violating. And there are large signs warning you of this.

 

[TickTock]

+2. This is why I have to top off when I get home now. I have a choice of driving 75-80 in the HOV lane (~50-60 when regular traffic to the right is stopped) or join the masses and deal with stop and go traffic. Changing in and out of the HOV lane depending on the current traffic conditions is unsafe so it's really two choices for me and, for now at least, I choose to eat Joules and fly. There will come a day when this isn't an option anymore and I suppose I will just avoid the freeway all-together at that point.

 

[LEAFfan]

There's no way that I'm going more than 10 over in the HOV lane. If you get caught going 85 in a 65, the officer can cite you for a criminal offense, and there is no driving school option.

 

[TickTock]

Yeah, I get nervous, too when I start creeping above 75 but I make sure I'm never the fastest car on the road and just go with the flow so I don't stick out to any officer.