public parking frustration

[joetesta]

At the train station near my work are 2 public chargers and 2 spaces. One of the chargers has been broken for months. So the two spaces have been sharing the one charger. About two weeks ago I pulled into the second spot and a white Leaf was plugged in with driver seated inside. When I asked the driver if they'd plug me in afterwards, I got a friendly "of course". Today I pulled in next to the white leaf again and opened my charger, figuring the driver would "of course" plug me in when finished.
After 4 hours at my office, I could see from my phone that I still hadn't been plugged in. I went back to the station and found a C-Max plugged in where the white leaf had been.
So either
1) the white leaf put the charger back without plugging me in and left the space open
2) the white leaf plugged me in but the C-Max unplugged me very soon after
3) the C-Max arrived as the white leaf was leaving and agreed to switch places without plugging me in.

Seeing as I was there first, I unplugged the C-Max and left a note that I was there first and need a charge. I'll go back in 3 hours and plug them back in if there still there. What would you have done?

I'd love to see the 2nd charger repaired and it would be great to have 4 spaces sharing the 2 chargers since drivers often leave their cars long after charging has completed.

 

[MikeinDenver]

At the train station near my work are 2 public chargers and 2 spaces. One of the chargers has been broken for months. So the two spaces have been sharing the one charger. About two weeks ago I pulled into the second spot and a white Leaf was plugged in with driver seated inside. When I asked the driver if they'd plug me in afterwards, I got a friendly "of course". Today I pulled in next to the white leaf again and opened my charger, figuring the driver would "of course" plug me in when finished.
After 4 hours at my office, I could see from my phone that I still hadn't been plugged in. I went back to the station and found a C-Max plugged in where the white leaf had been.
So either
1) the white leaf put the charger back without plugging me in and left the space open
2) the white leaf plugged me in but the C-Max unplugged me very soon after
3) the C-Max arrived as the white leaf was leaving and agreed to switch places without plugging me in.

Seeing as I was there first, I unplugged the C-Max and left a note that I was there first and need a charge. I'll go back in 3 hours and plug them back in if there still there. What would you have done?

I'd love to see the 2nd charger repaired and it would be great to have 4 spaces sharing the 2 chargers since drivers often leave their cars long after charging has completed.

I think what you did was reasonable. Especially based on it being a hybrid instead of fully electric.

 

[Slow1]

Hmm..

While I feel your pain I could see the c-max driver getting testy about being unplugged. I hope your note included contact info (i.e. cell phone number) so he/she can call you.

As to what to do in the future - I'd always speak to the driver of the white leaf if possible until you work out an agreement to get plugged in without asking.

Hopefully you can work it out - even that c-max driver could end up being a good friend and you may work up good ways to share efforts and use of the station.

If you are having to charge daily at work to make your drive home you may want to explore other options as, generally speaking, relying on public chargers is likely to let you down fairly frequently. At least have a good plan B.

Ethics of these situations is quite interesting - I've read a lot of other posts on related topics. Everyone using those chargers likely feels they have the right to it for some special reason or other - i.e. if you are actually catching a train, do you get higher priority than someone who is working in the area and not taking the train? BEV vs PHEV priority, is it first come first serve or first plugged in...

 

[joetesta]

If you are having to charge daily at work to make your drive home you may want to explore other options as, generally speaking, relying on public chargers is likely to let you down fairly frequently. At least have a good plan B.

well my plan B is to plug in the wall outlet at work, but figuring I'd get the public charger today I already wasted half the day unplugged.
And yeah I definitely plan to speak with the driver of the white leaf next and every time going forward.

 

[Slow1]

If you are having to charge daily at work to make your drive home you may want to explore other options as, generally speaking, relying on public chargers is likely to let you down fairly frequently. At least have a good plan B.

well my plan B is to plug in the wall outlet at work, but figuring I'd get the public charger today I already wasted half the day unplugged.
And yeah I definitely plan to speak with the driver of the white leaf next and every time going forward.

Interesting you mention that - we had a debate on my company forum (yes we have one) about whether it is better for the company to provide a couple L2 charger or perhaps more (for same cost as a couple L2's) plugs in the parking area.

The argument is that most of us park for 8+ hours anyway, which should get most of us at least 40 miles of range during the day (assuming 5 miles/hr charge at L1 speeds). For most folks that should be good enough and the cost would be less for the company to install (I assume) and we wouldn't have to muck about with moving cars plugging/unplugging during the day.

I wonder how many companies have considered and/or adopted this approach....

 

[smkettner]

If you did not leave a note you should not have expected the Leaf to plug you in.
I would not have unplugged the Cmax actively charging but would have left a note.

Did you call for service two months ago? And again last month? And again today?

 

[joetesta]

If you did not leave a note you should not have expected the Leaf to plug you in.
I would not have unplugged the Cmax actively charging but would have left a note.

Did you call for service two months ago? And again last month? And again today?

The Leaf driver was sitting in the car so it would have been odd to leave a note. We made eye contact, obviously they knew I wanted to be plugged in.

What? Call for service? About what? The broken public charger? It's almost better with just one because then drivers can switch off when someone gets full. As opposed to earlier when both worked they'd always both be occupied all day with 2 fully charged vehicles.

I was contemplating leaving a note that if it happens again they'll have 4 flat tires. They were going to leave it there all day fully charged taking up a space. Finding it really hard to be sympathetic when they would've left me stranded uncharged.

 

[Slow1]

I was contemplating leaving a note that if it happens again they'll have 4 flat tires. They were going to leave it there all day fully charged taking up a space. Finding it really hard to be sympathetic when they would've left me stranded uncharged.

To even think that threatening to or actually flattening someone's tires is appropriate seems way off base to me. Public chargers are provided to be used by anyone, generally on a first come, first served. It sounds to me like you feel entitled to charge to keep from being "stranded." Given that you cannot reserve these chargers and you (most likely) did not pay to have them installed for your personal use, I believe you should consider it a bonus when you can charge there. You didn't even have an explicit agreement with the other driver to plug you in, nor should you expect that he has an obligation to do so.

You have made assumptions about what happened there. It is entirely possible that the white leaf left the scene (not plugging you in for whatever reason - perhaps forgot?), then the c-max arrived and plugged in as it was available. You really think that driver would deserve your ire in that case?

Plan your route/timing such that if the charger is occupied you just move on to plan-B - plug into that 120v at your office, and be happy any time you do get the L2 charger. Don't go threatening other drivers, it is wrong and pointless.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

+1.

 

[smkettner]

If you did not leave a note you should not have expected the Leaf to plug you in.
I would not have unplugged the Cmax actively charging but would have left a note.

Did you call for service two months ago? And again last month? And again today?

The Leaf driver was sitting in the car so it would have been odd to leave a note. We made eye contact, obviously they knew I wanted to be plugged in.

Obvious to you....


Yes call the appropriate authority to ask nicely to have the charging station repaired.

 

[apvbguy]

as EVs become more and more popular the charging infrastructure needs to keep pace. these places that installed 2 chargers now need to look at the usage and if the usage justifies placing more chargers or if requests for more chargers by drivers are made then more units need to be installed.
an anecdotal story is this weekend I drove my tesla to visit my son at school where they have 4 L2 chargers which have always been empty, this time when I arrived 3 of 4 were in use and I filled them out, it may be time for the school to add capacity.

 

[Slow1]

as EVs become more and more popular the charging infrastructure needs to keep pace. these places that installed 2 chargers now need to look at the usage and if the usage justifies placing more chargers or if requests for more chargers by drivers are made then more units need to be installed.
an anecdotal story is this weekend I drove my tesla to visit my son at school where they have 4 L2 chargers which have always been empty, this time when I arrived 3 of 4 were in use and I filled them out, it may be time for the school to add capacity.

Question - as you are a Tesla owner and presumably have a fairly good range, If it costs you more to charge away from home and you don't need the power to get back home will you use that charger or just wait and plug in when home again? If the cost is exactly the same (i.e. per kWh) does your answer change?

The issue in my mind is who is going to pay for that added capacity? IF someone installs a charger expecting a decent ROI then they are going to have to have a cost to user that exceeds their initial fixed costs of install, plus maintenance and power used which I expect will be considerably higher than most of us pay (on a kWh basis) at home.

 

[apvbguy]

as EVs become more and more popular the charging infrastructure needs to keep pace. these places that installed 2 chargers now need to look at the usage and if the usage justifies placing more chargers or if requests for more chargers by drivers are made then more units need to be installed.
an anecdotal story is this weekend I drove my tesla to visit my son at school where they have 4 L2 chargers which have always been empty, this time when I arrived 3 of 4 were in use and I filled them out, it may be time for the school to add capacity.

Question - as you are a Tesla owner and presumably have a fairly good range, If it costs you more to charge away from home and you don't need the power to get back home will you use that charger or just wait and plug in when home again? If the cost is exactly the same (i.e. per kWh) does your answer change?

The issue in my mind is who is going to pay for that added capacity? IF someone installs a charger expecting a decent ROI then they are going to have to have a cost to user that exceeds their initial fixed costs of install, plus maintenance and power used which I expect will be considerably higher than most of us pay (on a kWh basis) at home.

in this case my charging on the trip is known as DESTINATION charging.
in other words the charging was needed to return to a charger.
when the chargers were installed there was not a ROI discussion, the discussion was about encouraging people to dump their ICE vehicles and switch to EVs.
this is slowly starting to happen and my comment relates to the fact that there are many more EVs on the road now than just 2 years ago and the necessity for the charging infrastructure be able to keep pace with the increased level of EV usage.
If I arrived at that destination and was unable to recharge for the return trip, other than being very inconvenienced I'd probably not use an EV to make a trip like that. therefore if the charging infrastructure is inadequate to support the number of EVs on the road the whole movement to EVs will suffer.

 

[Slow1]

Question - as you are a Tesla owner and presumably have a fairly good range, If it costs you more to charge away from home and you don't need the power to get back home will you use that charger or just wait and plug in when home again? If the cost is exactly the same (i.e. per kWh) does your answer change?

The issue in my mind is who is going to pay for that added capacity? IF someone installs a charger expecting a decent ROI then they are going to have to have a cost to user that exceeds their initial fixed costs of install, plus maintenance and power used which I expect will be considerably higher than most of us pay (on a kWh basis) at home.

in this case my charging on the trip is known as DESTINATION charging.
in other words the charging was needed to return to a charger.
when the chargers were installed there was not a ROI discussion, the discussion was about encouraging people to dump their ICE vehicles and switch to EVs.
this is slowly starting to happen and my comment relates to the fact that there are many more EVs on the road now than just 2 years ago and the necessity for the charging infrastructure be able to keep pace with the increased level of EV usage.
If I arrived at that destination and was unable to recharge for the return trip, other than being very inconvenienced I'd probably not use an EV to make a trip like that. therefore if the charging infrastructure is inadequate to support the number of EVs on the road the whole movement to EVs will suffer.

OK - so either you only charge away from home that is one thing, if you are traveling to a route that doesn't allow you to return to your home/base and charge up over night that is another.

In any case - the core of my question really is "would you be willing to pay the actual cost of the 'destination' charging stations you visit?" Or, would this put you back into an ICE vehicle?

My basic argument is that distributed "destination" charging is too expensive due to the fixed costs/maintenance of each unit. The "cap" amount that I believe most folks would be willing to pay is what their next best option is - if they have the range, that option would be home charging which frankly is fairly inexpensive. So, if people are using destination charging now it is either due to costs being lower than home (free chargers are hard to skip eh?), or they are outside their range to make it back home.

I wonder if there can be a viable public charger infrastructure business model to support "Destination" charging other than perhaps a few niche markets (i.e. airports). Of course as long as the bill is being paid by those wanting to promote EV use we'll see more pop up. Eventually I expect the general public will balk at paying to build up enough of a network to cover all converts... I like the Tesla model of building the cost into the vehicle, but it isn't the only option and it too will have challenges going forward (would rest areas along routes have multiple brands for which EV company is being serviced?).

 

[mgs333]

Back to the OP, I don't think you could have assumed that the white Leaf driver would plug you in a couple of week after you talked to him, and making eye contact, he/she could have taken it as a friendly hello kind of a thing.

And to leave threatening notes... well just don't do that. You can try killing them with kindness instead.

 

[apvbguy]

[
OK - so either you only charge away from home that is one thing, if you are traveling to a route that doesn't allow you to return to your home/base and charge up over night that is another.

In any case - the core of my question really is "would you be willing to pay the actual cost of the 'destination' charging stations you visit?" Or, would this put you back into an ICE vehicle?

apparently you are unfamiliar with the chargepoint or blink networks.
between those 2 networks there are thousands of chargers around the US, and most of them are pay to charge.
I've used a pay to charge unit one once and it cost me a ridiculous $30 to do a range charge overnight.
That is a very high cost considering that the max power I could have used would have been worth around $10, however this is where ROI comes into play.
As for the cost of that charge, the equivalent amount of "gas" would have been at least $70 so to answer your question, NO the cost of the occasional range charge would not deter me at all.

 

[Wufnu]

Blink? Hah.

If they're not all down, it's a mere $0.40-$0.70/kWh or $0.04/min ($2.40/hour). If that's the future, might as well have just bought a Versa or a hybrid.

Chargepoint is where it's at, $0.85/hour at most places I've been to or free.

Ecotality should have died. If Blink is the future, I'll get a Versa.

 

[Slow1]

apparently you are unfamiliar with the chargepoint or blink networks.

I have to admit, never used blink, but we do have chargepoint around here - so far the only one that has a cost associated with it is the one at my work (ironic eh?). The others I've used have been free (well, normal parking rates apply at the airport) leading me to assume they are being paid for by some subsidy.

between those 2 networks there are thousands of chargers around the US, and most of them are pay to charge.
I've used a pay to charge unit one once and it cost me a ridiculous $30 to do a range charge overnight.
That is a very high cost considering that the max power I could have used would have been worth around $10, however this is where ROI comes into play.
As for the cost of that charge, the equivalent amount of "gas" would have been at least $70 so to answer your question, NO the cost of the occasional range charge would not deter me at all.

Ok, so I think this may actually illustrate my point. Assume (for the moment) that public chargers all charged on the order of what you experienced. IF this were the case, would you choose to charge at home primarily and only utilize the public chargers when the range of your travels for the day required it? I can see "occasional range charge" not being an issue for most people. This should decrease the demand for said chargers and thus reduce the amount of infrastructure required. The assumption I'm making here, of course, is that the range of BEVs will be such that buyers won't have to charge away from home on a regular basis; either the range will impede the sales (we already see this even with free chargers don't we?) or the range of vehicles will increase (also appears to be in the plans of car manufacturers).

 

[z0ner]

I was contemplating leaving a note that if it happens again they'll have 4 flat tires.

You are delusional, not to mention a borderline sociopath.

As everyone is saying, you can't ASSUME the Leaf driver will do anything unless you COMMUNICATE other than by an eye twitch.

You're not entitled to the juice, and should have a "Plan B" in case you're not able to charge there. If you don't have a backup plan, then maybe the LEAF is just not for you.

 

[apvbguy]

Ok, so I think this may actually illustrate my point. Assume (for the moment) that public chargers all charged on the order of what you experienced. IF this were the case, would you choose to charge at home primarily and only utilize the public chargers when the range of your travels for the day required it?

I and most people, especially tesla owners, do the majority of there charging at their home, some LEAF and owners of EVs with similar range might charge at work as well. The ONLY times I charge away from home is when I am travelling