Realistic odds of upgrading 2015 24kWh battery pack?

[lutefisk]

My 2015 Leaf has barely 25,000 miles on it and the battery has lost one bar.

My plan has been to keep it and wait until upgrading the battery pack is truly a realistic option, but I’m beginning to doubt that idea. Seems to me that the 24 kWh Leafs are considered relics and there’s really no aftermarket for pack upgrades outside of a smattering of shops across the entire US.

Am I being too pessimistic?

 

[SageBrush]

Covid crushed the nascent upgrade cottage industry so the trend line looks horrible but should not be over-read.
The flip side is that the logistics, installation costs, and antipathy from Nissan have always made an upgrade unlikely to bloom into an industry, cottage or otherwise.

Then there is time, which is not on these car's side. The final nail in the coffin in my opinion is the blockbuster explosion of cheap new EVs at Europe's gates. A good fraction of the 24 kWh world-wide upgrade market has been cut off at its knees.

The US has a similar dynamic for different reasons. My friend is buying a 2 years old Bolt with a new, warrantied, thermally controlled 66 kWh battery for $20k after tax credit. I suggest you dump your LEAF and do the same. Pronto. Non-predatory financing is available if your credit is not in the toilet, unlike the ad-hoc, caveat-emptor, cash or credit card based installers of mostly unknown repute offering used packs or boxes of mostly unknown contents.

Lastly, as a group people who own these cars are not financially well-off. They are looking for cheap transportation, not an expensive science hobby. Pretty much the definition of where scammers ply their trade

 

[lutefisk]

Thanks for the reality check. A 7+ year-old EV is an anachronism.
I kept my previous car for 21 years but the Leaf isn’t gonna make it anywhere that long. Pity.

 

[HerdingElectrons]

Yup, you definitely are paying the early adopter tax.

 

[WetEV]

Upgrading the i486 computer wasn't very useful either.

 

[lutefisk]

I consider my Leaf akin to a Model A. More advanced than a Model T but still a very early car.

 

[goldbrick]

For an 'around town' car (which is all it ever was or will be) I expect to drive my Leaf until I'm too old to drive or it gets totaled in a crash. Even my father's 2013 10-bar Leaf still serves him well and he lives 10 miles from the nearest town.

 

[lutefisk]

For an 'around town' car (which is all it ever was or will be) I expect to drive my Leaf until I'm too old to drive or it gets totaled in a crash. Even my father's 2013 10-bar Leaf still serves him well and he lives 10 miles from the nearest town.

Yep. Perfect metro area commuter as long as one can charge easily.

 

[Stanton]

I'm happy to provide a positive counterpoint: I successfully did a 24 kWh->40 kWh upgrade and here's a link to my story (https://www.myeva.org/blog/keeping-your-nissan-leaf). It's not easy and not for everyone, but it's (probably) added another 10 years (plus additional range) to my Leaf...and I did this 2 years ago now.
Sounds like your 2015 is doing well (only down 1CB), but once you're down 2 bars, you will be wishing for more range.

 

[Rxt4805]

I love my 2015 Leaf but it just dropped to 10 bars at 36k miles. I thought that 75 to miles would be fine for my needs when I bought it but I really would like to get closer to 170 miles on a charge since it didn't come with a level 3 charge port. Does anyone know anyone doing battery upgrades to newer higher range batteries in the greater Los Angeles or Southern California area. The car is my first EV and I will never go back to ICE again for my daily driver. HELP!!!

 

[dpacocha49]

I love my 2015 Leaf but it just dropped to 10 bars at 36k miles. I thought that 75 to miles would be fine for my needs when I bought it but I really would like to get closer to 170 miles on a charge since it didn't come with a level 3 charge port. Does anyone know anyone doing battery upgrades to newer higher range batteries in the greater Los Angeles or Southern California area. The car is my first EV and I will never go back to ICE again for my daily driver. HELP!!!

Before committing to an upgrade, assess your charging options at home and work. Installing a Level 2 charger at home can significantly reduce charging time and extend your daily range. Additionally, utilizing public Level 3 chargers for occasional longer trips can be a cost-effective alternative to a full battery upgrade.

 

[moapys]

Perhaps you might consider an interim older/inexpensive hybrid, until the battery technology (and charging infrastructure improves). I love my Leaf "grocery-getter/work-scooter", but have the enviable advantage of rarely traveling beyond a fifty mile round trip...barely feasible for my 2012 leaf.

Hang in there!

 

[rogersleaf]

A few weeks ago, was at my dealership service dept setting an appointment to work on the LEAF (that I traded in since then). One oddity about LEAF in NE Ohio is the vast majority of them were sold by this same dealer and they have a couple very good LEAF techs. The service writer mentioned they have done complete pack replacements and dismantled LEAF packs to replace individual modules. Their problem right now is a waiting list of several months for battery related parts, and I will qualify that wait as for batteries still under warranty and Nissan paying the labor bill. Now imagine trying to get repairs done for a non-warrantied battery, or trying to convince a certified dealer tech to install a used module purchased off fleaBay. Good luck with that idea.

The reality is by the time the 8yr/100K mile battery warranty ends or your LEAF battery has deteriorated beyond usability, the manufacturing world has moved on to newer technology. That's why 40KWh packet are being installed to replace failed 24 & 30 KWh packs. So it's not a matter of if repairs are possible, it's a matter of repairs becoming improbable and likely costs more than the car is worth.

 

[cornbinder89]

I can attest that my 9 year old pack is doing all I expect it would at this point. Being a 24 Kwh pack, it was limited from the get go.
As to "More than the car is worth" that can be looked at many ways. Try finding an 8 or 9 year old car with mileage below 100k, and compare price to what the Leaf brings in the same mileage/age. As to whether it is "worth" doing, that is a personal choice. You can buy another used Leaf and go though the cycle again, you can buy another type of car and move on, or you can invest in what you have now and continue on with a car that at least one point, drew your interest.
No one answer will fit everyone.
As far as Nissan installing a used module, I wouldn't expect they would. But in the aftermarket, there are opportunities, both in the used and new market.
When I was in trucking, I did so with 30-40 year old tractors, Many told me I should move on to "newer and better" tech. Yes, the mileage was slightly better on the new stuff, but I could repair the old for a small fraction of the cost of repairing a newer one. Aftermarket parts can be as good as original or junk, and in some cases better than original as newer tech gets incorporated into the older parts.
No reason a older Leaf couldn't get a new lease on life and turn another "lifetime" with a battery replacement and can even be upgraded with larger capacity so to be more useful than it was when new.
I could overhaul a large Cummins diesel for about $1500 and some work. I would then have a "new" engine in an old truck that would than run another million plus miles. This isn't hypothetical, I ran them that way for close to 30 yeas.

 

[EVPowers]

I can install the aftermarket LRN 40 kWh battery pack for the Nissan Leaf at my shop in Wisconsin. But the cost is financially unpalatable to most folks.
- All New cells
- 150 mile range
- 3 year/36,000 mile part warranty
Generally ~$14,000 + tax. For now am able to do for $13,000 + tax.

Seeing that Nissan wants $10,000 for a 24 kWh (84 mile) pack, the LRN is a better value.
But, in both cases, that is a large amount to spend.
You can look at other Used EVs instead, especially with a tax credit.

That said, if you want to ever chat about the possibility of upgrading your pack with a New one at an independent shop in the US, feel free to contact me.

 

[cornbinder89]

Eric, at some point in the future, I think you and I will have a talk, right now, I am saving penny's by not buying gasoline, and my car is doing the 95%+ of the trips I bought it for. How long in the future depends on how well the current battery lasts.

 

[Dooglas]

Perfect metro area commuter as long as one can charge easily.

Yes, and in that context it also doesn't matter that CHAdeMO is disappearing. Charge at home, drive locally, and the car will give good service.

 

[saleem]

For an 'around town' car (which is all it ever was or will be) I expect to drive my Leaf until I'm too old to drive or it gets totaled in a crash. Even my father's 2013 10-bar Leaf still serves him well and he lives 10 miles from the nearest town.

Yep. Perfect metro area commuter as long as one can charge easily.

The problem with these sentiments that you might be missing, is that the fuel economy gets worse and worse- it's not just a question of living with the range.
If you have an older Leaf and part of your reason for driving it is saving money on gas, I suggest you plug it into an energy meter and double check if you're actually saving.
On my 2012 Leaf with 60% SOH battery, the range is perfect for what I need. <1 mile trip 8-9 times a day. But I was expecting the equivalent of 50-60mpg. With CT electricity costs coming to about .25cents/KWh and gas prices where they are now, I'm instead getting the equivalent of a 22-26 mpg car and I have to live with the range. For comparison, a Kia K5 ICE car I rented a few weeks back easily got 37-39 mpg.

Of course, it still has a low to no maintenance cost, and I got it a year and a half ago for only $2400, so I think it still makes sense in my particular situation to drive it into the ground. But those numbers are not adding up for many people, I'm guessing.

 

[cornbinder89]

electricity cost don't change with the age of the car, how far you can go does. I'm in the high 3's to low 4's in mile/Kw, just depends on temp and how driven. That is the same as new. So a round trip to town of around 25 miles +/- means it takes around 7 Kwh of electricity to do the trip.
Your electricity cost vs your gasoline cost, are unique to your area and differ from what another area would be.
1 mile trips 9 times a day are hard on an ICE car, and hard on what mileage said car can get.
Gasoline is very volatile price wise, electricity not so much. Right now, cheap gas goes for $3.77 (and rising) per gal, and although my Camry will get close to 30 MPG on long high way trips, it does much poorer on short local jaunts. So my "fuel costs" for trips is 1/2 what it would be with the ICE car.
Electricity cost me all in (taxes, dist charge etc) about $0.14 a Kwh, it will rise to near $0.19-$0.20 per Kwh when on "summer" rate schedule. At that point my electric will likely be in the high mile/Kw used as summer doesn't require as much to do the same distance.
I should point out I DO have a Kwh reading on my EVSE for every charge cycle, so I DO know how much I am using. So I am getting around 50+ Mpg equivalent costs, if you are getting 1/2 that, you are using close to 1.5 miles/Kw, so not sure what is going on, but something is wrong.

 

[Drew21]

Agreed with cornbinder. You're unlikely to get close to 40 mpg on a 1 mile drive in any ICE vehicle, especially in the winter, whereas an EV should operate at essentially the same efficiency over pretty much any trip duration. Ironically, I would expect your hypothetical 40 mpg ICE vehicle to return 20-25 mpg on multiple 1 mile drives over the day, which is basically what you say you get with your Leaf.

In addition, short trips are pretty hard on an ICE vehicle drivetrain, especially in the winter, whereas the drivetrain on an EV should be relatively unaffected (obviously there are still moving parts in need of lubrication, but far fewer than in an ICE vehicle).

Your comparison would make more sense if an EV lost efficiency over time, but it instead loses battery capacity (i.e., the "fuel" tank shrinks). If your electricity cost stays the same over time the operational cost of your Leaf should stay roughly the same, you just can't go as far. If your electricity costs increase the costs of using your Leaf obviously increase as well, but that's no different than when gas prices increase for the ICE vehicle.