Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[DrRocket]

I can't believe the materials cost for a 50 AMP vs 16 AMP EVSE portable version would cost much more. While someone may want to create market segmentation with various amperage denominations, a single small portable 50 AMP EVSE for $500 would be a giant hit.

50 amps is going to well more than double the amount of copper needed, and the cable will get heavy, bulky, and hard to manage. Yes, it will cost significantly more, as the bulk of the cost is the heavy stuff actually carrying the current.

Not to say that $500 for a 50amp unit isn't do-able with some economy of scale.

-Phil

If the 50 amp version is $500, the how much less would be a 40 amp, 30 amp and 16 amp? Most of the price for an EVSE is amortization of development costs and labor. I have to believe the materials are a small portion of the retail price.

I hope your go for the grant money and start producing these. You already are making a name for yourself. BTW, start thinking of a name. EVSEUPGRADE will no longer make sense when you move out of upgrading the Panasonic units. You should begin branding your upgrades with the new name as a transition. For example EVSE upgrade by INGINEER Electronics Group. Then you can roll out...Portable EVSE by INGINEER Electronics Group...and so on.

I hope you do it or something like it. This is such a small project for the big electrical companies that they are not sending their best and brightest.....yet. Get going, make the niche...

 

[hill]

Correct, The only way to "get around" the Quick220 on GFCI problem is a minimum 2kva Isolation transformer. Combine that with a safety relay and you have a Quick240+. It will probably waste a hundred watts or so, and be relatively heavy. It could also be done with a PFC switching setup, but this would be costly, especially in low volume.

-Phil

OK so, I borrowed a 1.92kva Isolation transformer. Not too cumbersome, at 8" x 9" x 15" and 50lbs. First, I put the transformer in line on one (GFI'ed) 120V leg of our power and plugged that into one side of our quick220 appliance. Then I plugged the opposite (again GFI'ed) 120V leg into the the quick220 appliance as well.

CLICK !

GFI's still tripping. Am I missing something?

 

[tps]

OK so, I borrowed a 1.92kva Isolation transformer. Not too cumbersome, at 8" x 9" x 15" and 50lbs. First, I put the transformer in line on one (GFI'ed) 120V leg of our power and plugged that into one side of our quick220 appliance. Then I plugged the opposite (again GFI'ed) 120V leg into the the quick220 appliance as well.

CLICK !

GFI's still tripping. Am I missing something?

Slightly different wiring is required inside the Quick 220 to use it with an isolation transformer. It needs to be rewired so that it draws current through the neutral to prevent tripping the GFCI. Ideally, you'd want the Quick220 built into the isolation transformer so you could ensure proper polarity. Also, it should not be necessary to have the 120 VAC circuits on opposite sides of the neutral when using an isolation transformer.

 

[hill]

Slightly different wiring is required inside the Quick 220 to use it with an isolation transformer. It needs to be rewired so that it draws current through the neutral to prevent tripping the GFCI. Ideally, you'd want the Quick220 built into the isolation transformer so you could ensure proper polarity. Also, it should not be necessary to have the 120 VAC circuits on opposite sides of the neutral when using an isolation transformer.

I duno ... what about your June 9 post ... that it'd require a:

" ... high-frequency switch-type transformer ... "

to get around the need to use both legs. In any event (and I don't have Phil's quick240 diagram right in front of me) I thought the quick220 necessarily DID draw current through neutral. sigh ... guess I'll have to do more digging.

 

[tps]

I duno ... what about your June 9 post ... that it'd require a:

" ... high-frequency switch-type transformer ... "

to get around the need to use both legs. In any event (and I don't have Phil's quick240 diagram right in front of me) I thought the quick220 necessarily DID draw current through neutral. sigh ... guess I'll have to do more digging.

Some sort of isolation transformer is required, be it a traditional 60 Hz one or some sort of high-frequency switching "transformer". In a normal Quick220 circuit, the only thing powered by the neutral is the relay coils, miniscule by comparison to the LEAFs charging current. A GFCI on a 120V outlet is tripped by even a small current imbalance between the hot and the neutral. The quick220 trips the GFCI because the current from the hot of the first 120V plug flows through the load (the LEAF) and is returned to the hot of the other 120V plug, with very little current flowing in either neutral, a massive current imbalance.

An isolation transformer can be used to generate 240V by placing its secondary in series with the other 120V plug so it adds to 240V, much like placing two 1.5V cells in series to obtain 3V. The isolation transformer is necessary on the second plug since the "neutral" of the second plug has to be connected to the hot side of the first plug for series connection. Without the isolation transformer, this would place a direct short across the first plug. But' this arrangement with an isolation transformer would cause cause all current drawn from the hot of each plug to be returned through its neutral, and would not trip the GFCIs.

 

[fooljoe]

I got my EVSE upgraded (rev 2) just before evseupgrade went on hiatus on 6/17, and have been a happy customer so far. I balked at Aerovironment's $2300 quote and month-long wait and am using the upgraded EVSE as my primary charger, plugged into an unused dryer outlet in my garage.

However, after charging at a Nissan dealer I noticed the cable with the J1772 connector on their Aerovironment unit (which is handling the same 240v/16a current as my upgraded EVSE) is much thicker than the one on my EVSE, and my cable feels warm during charging. Should I be concerned about this, and is there an easy way to upgrade the cable if this could present a problem?

 

[davewill]

...However, after charging at a Nissan dealer I noticed the cable with the J1772 connector on their Aerovironment unit (which is handling the same 240v/16a current as my upgraded EVSE) is much thicker than the one on my EVSE, and my cable feels warm during charging. Should I be concerned about this, and is there an easy way to upgrade the cable if this could present a problem?

Even though the LEAF is only drawing 16a, the AV unit is rated for 30a...therefore the heavier cable. Personally, I trust Phil, and he very carefully looked at all the components, including the cable gauge while engineering the upgrade.

 

[GeekEV]

Even though the LEAF is only drawing 16a, the AV unit is rated for 30a...therefore the heavier cable. Personally, I trust Phil, and he very carefully looked at all the components, including the cable gauge while engineering the upgrade.

+1
Warm is to be expected as you're moving quite a bit of power and not all is going to make it through the wire - that which doesn't will be lost as heat. Personally, I wouldn't even start to worry until it gets too hot to touch, but even then you've got a ways to go before there's any real danger.

 

[Volusiano]

If you haven't done so already, just make sure you don't coil up the cable so that heat doesn't build up and can be dissipated.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Got mine Wednesday - Thanks Phil for the hard work getting these out so fast. Mine is working just fine on L1. I'm hiring an Electrician to install 240v in my garage - what do I need to tell him as far as type of circuit breakers and amperage?

Tell him you need an L6-20 installed with a 20 amp circuit.

On the same lines, if I am having a 240v outlet installed for current and future needs (i.e., 6.6kw and 7.7kw), should I ask for a 40 amp circuit, and a NEMA 14-50R, or __?__ receptacle?

 

[garygid]

Yes, install the 40-amp wiring, and then either:
1. the 20-amp dual-breaker with the L6-20R (for now), or
2. a 40-amp dual-breaker and the 14-50R socket.

Of course, choice #2 also requires an adapter cord
with a 14-50P (plug) and a L6-20R (socket).

Or, would 14-30 be required with the 40-amp breaker, instead of the 14-50?

 

[JPVLeaf]

Yes, the 40-amp wiring, and then either:
1. the 20-amp breaker with the L6-20R (for now), or
2. a 40-amp breaker and the 14-50R socket.

Of course, choice #2 also requires an adapter cord
with a 14-50P (plug) and a L6-20R (socket).

Ok, great. I think I will go with option #2 right from the get-go to minimize changes later. And, since I already have a Rev2 w/ L6-20P, and a L6-20R to 14-50P adaptor, I'm set. I was curious if there is another plug-type that is suitable for (up to) 40 amps. But, I will just stick with the now-familiar 14-50.

 

[davewill]

Ok, great. I think I will go with option #2 right from the get-go to minimize changes later. And, since I already have a Rev2 w/ L6-20P, and a L6-20R to 14-50P adaptor, I'm set. I was curious if there is another plug-type that is suitable for (up to) 40 amps. But, I will just stick with the now-familiar 14-50.

My Blink install used a 6-50, but the 14-50 is a good choice and could be swapped out for whatever receptacle you ended up needing later on.

 

[wwhitney]

Or, would 14-30 be required with the 40-amp breaker, instead of the 14-50?

No, a receptacle on a dedicated circuit must be rated at least as high as the breaker protecting it. When you have multiple receptacles on a circuit, their rating must match the breaker size. The only exceptions: you can have multiple 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit, as 15 amp receptacles are actually good for 20 amps pass through (e.g. 10 amps from each half of a duplex). And since the NEMA flavors don't come in -40, a -50 should be used on a 40 amp breaker.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[planet4ever]

Yes, install the 40-amp wiring, and then either:
1. the 20-amp dual-breaker with the L6-20R (for now), or
2. a 40-amp dual-breaker and the 14-50R socket.

Or, would 14-30 be required with the 40-amp breaker, instead of the 14-50?

I really appreciate the fact that I have a locking connection from my EVSE to the wall. Why not consider an L14-30 or an L6-30? Personally, though, I would go with your choice (1) and wait to see what develops later as the most popular choice for the higher amperage.

Ray

 

[garygid]

L6-20 on a 20-amp breaker (with 40-amp "future-proof" wires) matches your present Mod-L1 EVSE without an adapter.

The 40-amp breaker would need a "40" or "50" Plug, and a 14-50P is also useful at RV Parks. With its Neutral pin removed, the 14-50P can also use a 14-30R (new clothes-dryer socket).

Locking L14-xx plugs and sockets might be rare.

 

[Ingineer]

Got mine Wednesday - Thanks Phil for the hard work getting these out so fast. Mine is working just fine on L1. I'm hiring an Electrician to install 240v in my garage - what do I need to tell him as far as type of circuit breakers and amperage?

Tell him you need an L6-20 installed with a 20 amp circuit.

On the same lines, if I am having a 240v outlet installed for current and future needs (i.e., 6.6kw and 7.7kw), should I ask for a 40 amp circuit, and a NEMA 14-50R, or __?__ receptacle?

If you want to future proof, tell him to install wire good for 40a, but stick with the 20a breaker and L6-20 outlet. This way you can upgrade easily in about 10 minutes with a screwdriver, new outlet, and breaker should you decide to at some future time. Otherwise if you install a 14-50, he's going to be required to wire for 50 amps and install a 50a breaker, and then you'll still need an adapter to use the upgraded EVSE.

-Phil

 

[JPVLeaf]

Tell him you need an L6-20 installed with a 20 amp circuit.

On the same lines, if I am having a 240v outlet installed for current and future needs (i.e., 6.6kw and 7.7kw), should I ask for a 40 amp circuit, and a NEMA 14-50R, or __?__ receptacle?

If you want to future proof, tell him to install wire good for 40a, but stick with the 20a breaker and L6-20 outlet. This way you can upgrade easily in about 10 minutes with a screwdriver, new outlet, and breaker should you decide to at some future time. Otherwise if you install a 14-50, he's going to be required to wire for 50 amps and install a 50a breaker, and then you'll still need an adapter to use the upgraded EVSE.

Thanks for the tips and advice. Good to know.
After all, who knows when I will actually need to upgrade from current Rev2 EVSE (i.e., >20 amps).
In the meantime, I could do without the adaptor.

Also, thanks for quick shipping of Rev2 #2.

 

[wwhitney]

Otherwise if you install a 14-50, he's going to be required to wire for 50 amps and install a 50a breaker, and then you'll still need an adapter to use the upgraded EVSE.

The NEC does not require that, it only requires that on a dedicated branch circuit, the receptacle rating match or exceed the branch circuit rating. So you could put a 14-50 on a 10 amp breaker if you want to. In particular, the -50 receptacles are standard for 40 amp circuits, as there are no -40 receptacles.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Ingineer]

We are finally getting close to being caught up with the flood of orders we received after our closure. All received orders should be complete soon, thanks for your patience!

Our site has been updated with order functionality for both new EVSE and advance replacement order options.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING BEFORE ORDERING:

NEW EVSE ORDERS
If you want to order a brand new converted EVSE for a LEAF or Volt we now have units in stock and will be shipping new orders over the next week. If you are ordering the Volt upgrade please note that it introduces a problem for the LEAF if using a charger timer, so we do not recommend LEAF owners order the Volt upgrade.

Units are shipped in the order placed and based on our stock on hand each week. You will receive a tracking notice when your order ships. Please be sure to send us your waiver form or your order will not ship!

[Order Here]

ADVANCE REPLACEMENT ORDERS
If you are located in California, must orders take 1 to 2 days to ship, so most customers do not need this option. However, if you cannot be without a charge solution, we are offering an advance replacement service. There is a $75 fee for this service (includes shipping) and a refundable $600 deposit. We ship you an upgraded EVSE to your specifications in advance. Once you get your new upgraded EVSE you simply ship yours back and once we receive the unit in resalable condition we refund your $600 deposit. Note: You must ship your EVSE out to us within two (2) business days after receiving your upgraded unit, or you may be assessed late fees. (This allows us to continue to provide the service to other LEAF owners.) All the options and charges are listed on our order page. Orders are shipped in the order received. You will receive an email containing tracking info when your order ships.

[Order Here]

Thanks!

-Phil