Rollout Rant

[idashark]

OK so when Nissan announced the Leaf a year ago (2009) I wanted one.

When Nissan announced the registration program, I registered as soon as I had the money.

Now I'm ready to buy, but I can't because of my billing address.

Not because they aren't available.
Not because I can't afford it.
Not because I'm unwilling to be a early adopter (read: guinea pig).
Not because there's not a Nissan Certified Leaf dealer in my area, there is.
Not because I'm unwilling to buy from a neighboring state, rent a car trailer, and haul it home.

I can't order one simply because Nissan has decided that my billing address doesn't meet their criteria. I can't order a Leaf for at least another year, but more likely it will be 2012.

By 2012:
the bugs should be worked out
other EVs may be available
I will have spent approx. $1,700 in gas
I will have already replaced my car which is over 10 years old now

STOP THE ADDRESS DISCRIMINATION!

 

[JasonT]

I'm not entirely sure if this is a serious post, or a joke post, but... I'll bite anyway.

How do you want them to discriminate? By age? By income?

Nissan has an extremely finite number of Leafs in this first run. Not only have the limited the market to certain areas, but I believe they stopped taking registrations entirely (I could be wrong on this, my mind is a mess right now) due to the limited number they can make vs the demand that is currently out there.

Besides the limited amount of cars, we're also talking about a technology that although it has been around a while it hasn't been released in these kinds of numbers. Nissan wants this to be a positive experience and part of the control of that is to only release it in areas that the infrastructure is being set up at the same time.

But what it really comes down to IS "because they aren't available". When you have a greater demand than there is a supply, someone is always going to get screwed. Is this better/worse than the Volt situation where some dealers are planning on adding huge markups (a different approach to greater demand than supply)? Some will say yes, some will say no.

Of your "By 2012", only two of those seem like a bad thing - I don't quite see the problem with the first two.

Full Disclosure: I am in AZ and have been able to order a Leaf, so it's easier for me to say these things since they don't directly affect me

 

[LEAFer]

Now I'm ready to buy, but I can't because of my billing address.

What city is your residence and what city is your billing address ?

 

[charlie1300]

I'm one of those unlucky people who are in the last phase states, NY, that have to wait till late 2011/ early 2012 to order.
But I'm not ranting or claiming "discrimination" because Nissan has legitimate business reasons for their roll-out schedule. You can't fault Nissan for focusing on a roll-out plan that maximizes a positive marketing approach. They are a profit making Corporation.

They want to control by location the initial small volume of cars they produce so they can monitor and support the early adopters - not be cause they care about the early adopters, but they care about the word of mouth PR that will stem from them. The early adopters will be vocal (like on this form) and Nissan wants a positive result.

Apparently there is some "cold weather" package that Nissan feels needs to be developed for Northern states that they weren't ready for in 2010. I'm happy to wait for that, since there are really cold winters in upstate NY, and I'll try to stretch the life of my 10 year old car till 2012.

It's not a bad thing to be production #10,000 thru 20,000. Many bugs will be corrected by then. I intentionally delayed registration until press reports indicated that 10,000 had registered, not realizing at that point that my location would have created that delay anyway.

So look at the positives of your position, since you can't change it anyway.

 

[mitch672]

36 out of 51 states are in the same boat. Massachusetts is among the last of the states as well...

There are other options:

Buy a used 2004-2009 Prius, and get a PHEV conversion kit, or just buy a used Prius and use it for the next few years, the resale market on used Prius's is likely to go up, if gasoline keeps going up in price, and you might even be able to sell it for more than you paid.

It is just a car, it's not the end of the world.

 

[TRONZ]

I guess borders needed to be drawn clearly to define the rules. I can imagine, somewhere, one side of a street is a "roll-out area" and the other side of the street "not a roll out area". Some people are probably going crazy in those locations! :evil: On the bright side, it would seem that the new dealer allocation system might allow some short-circuiting of LEAF deliveries when springtime cars land. Some LEAF orders will fall through and some cars may arrive as part of Dealer Allocation. It all sounds pretty fluid right now so don't get too discouraged. I predict a future thread ranting about how a walk-in-non-reservation buyer got a LEAF before someone that followed all the buying steps. It will happen! There are some very good horse traders out there :!:

 

[stanley]

Hi Mitch from Boston. I was born and raised in Boston and now live in Southern Ca. Isn`t Beantown too cold fo an EV December through February. I do not think I would risk driving one in a snow storm.

 

[mitch672]

Hi Mitch from Boston. I was born and raised in Boston and now live in Southern Ca. Isn`t Beantown too cold fo an EV December through February. I do not think I would risk driving one in a snow storm.

Too cold? nope. I have a garage at home (insulated but not generally heated, although it can be if needed), and I also park in an underground parking garage at work. It's just the 30-45 minute commute the car would be outside in the elements. By the time we can order the Leaf here "Fall/Winter 2011", the cold weather package will be out, with the battery heater, the heated seats, possibly heated mirrors and heated steering wheel as well. We will be fine. It's a lot colder in many other parts of the country, such as North Dakota, Minnesota, etc. Also, I don't see how a snow storm is going to bother the Leaf... unless it ends up being one of those 4-6 hour commutes to get home (happened to me once), then no car is good for that

 

[evnow]

Now I'm ready to buy, but I can't because of my billing address.

Yes - for eg. I can't get Verizon optical fibre internet. People 10 miles from my place can.

Atleast in your case Nissan has a good reason - they want to have the cold weather package ready for you.

 

[stanley]

Hi Mitch, you are correct . The Leaf would work fo you. Once Nissan has the winter package they should make exceptions for people who know the risks and can hande them as well as you will.

 

[idashark]

Is this a joke or serious post, both and neither, it’s a rant, hence the title.

Yes, I understand the whole bit about something not being available in an area. I paid for satellite internet for a number of years because no other option was available. I also understand that Nissan is a business, not a .org.

But I have to wonder how circumspect many of you would be, if you had to show your driver’s license to verify your address, before a grocery store, fast food place, or gas station would sell to you. “Oh you live there! No you can’t buy from us.”

I even understand Nissan deciding to support only their primary markets. Living in Idaho there are a number of movies that don’t make it to the theaters here because of our demographic. However, if I go someplace that is playing the movie, I’m not told that since no theaters in my area play the movie, I can’t see it. I can not order a Leaf, even from an out of state dealer. There is no vehicle (pun intended) for me to do so.

From the Nissan press release Feb 11, 2010.
“RESERVE: The reservation process will begin in April, shortly after the announcement of the price of the Nissan LEAF. Upon paying a fully refundable $100 reservation fee, registrants will be among the first in line able to order a Nissan LEAF.”

Apparently their idea of ‘first in line’ and mine differ since, although registered, I cannot order until probably 2012.

 

[evnow]

I also understand that Nissan is a business, not a .org.

Not just Nissan - you will see every EV manufacturer do some kind of gradual rollout. Just as in Europe they don't roll out in all countries. Or you rollout GSM phones first, and later CDMA.

It is just a fact of modern business and the large country we live in.

 

[Rokeby]

...I can't order one simply because Nissan has decided that my billing address doesn't meet their
criteria. I can't order a Leaf for at least another year, but more likely it will be 2012.

By 2012:
the bugs should be worked out
other EVs may be available
I will have spent approx. $1,700 in gas
I will have already replaced my car which is over 10 years old now

There are more of us in Nissan's second class citizen status than there in the first tier states.

Nissan's really got it's back against the wall with the Leaf release. It's got to go well.
So, they are exerting as much control as they can to ensure the best possible reception...
it may be a matter of their life and death.

You can rant against the machine, or you can slow down and find ways to work the situation to
your advantage.
One way to start is to look at the early adopters as Nissan's guinea pigs.
They get to volunteer to be on the cutting edge, and in all cases, things aren't going to go smoothly.
Another way is to learn from the first tier folks who post here how to stay on top of the ordering
process. When it's our turn, you'll be the smarter for it.
If you still want a Leaf in 2012, you can work the system to your advantage.

As you hinted in your post, in 2012, you may no longer want a Leaf. There are a number of other
EVs that are promised that year; Mitsu iMiEV, Ford Transit Connect and Focus, maybe the Think City.
If you pay attention here, you'll be better informed, and be in a better position to work their
ordering process to your advantage.

Buy a seriously used Corolla or Civic to carry you over,
Save all the money you can between now and then.

If you work it right, Nissan's loss - a sale to you - can be your gain.

 

[defiancecp]

Someone asked what those of us stuck outside the borders expect?

EASY.

Limit DEALERSHIPS, educate consumers on what the car can & can't do, and let orders be FIRST COME FIRST SERVE based on reservation times.

MUCH easier than this mess they're running now, and achieves the same thing but with less arbitrary limitation. Then the consumer gets to make the choice, and the necessary information is forced on them - if they aren't willing to go that far to get the car, cool - but if a consumer is willing to truck the vehicle 500 miles or something, and is willing to accept that they'll have minimal local support, they're obviously a very enthusiastic buyer - the kind you want evangelizing your vehicle (the kind you want to keep enthusiastic, not alienate!)

But too late now, we deal with what they've already decided.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Someone asked what those of us stuck outside the borders expect?

EASY.

Limit DEALERSHIPS, educate consumers on what the car can & can't do, and let orders be FIRST COME FIRST SERVE based on reservation times.

MUCH easier than this mess they're running now, and achieves the same thing but with less arbitrary limitation. Then the consumer gets to make the choice, and the necessary information is forced on them - if they aren't willing to go that far to get the car, cool - but if a consumer is willing to truck the vehicle 500 miles or something, and is willing to accept that they'll have minimal local support, they're obviously a very enthusiastic buyer - the kind you want evangelizing your vehicle (the kind you want to keep enthusiastic, not alienate!)

But too late now, we deal with what they've already decided.

A a person who has rolled out product releases for fortune 50 companies, I think Nissan has the correct strategy. Having cars outside the service area is really bad for PR and there is no way for Nissan to control who will be ok with issues and who will not. Since this is a massive investment and risk for them this makes complete sense to protect their business interests.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Someone asked what those of us stuck outside the borders expect?

EASY.

Limit DEALERSHIPS, educate consumers on what the car can & can't do, and let orders be FIRST COME FIRST SERVE based on reservation times.

MUCH easier than this mess they're running now, and achieves the same thing but with less arbitrary limitation. Then the consumer gets to make the choice, and the necessary information is forced on them - if they aren't willing to go that far to get the car, cool - but if a consumer is willing to truck the vehicle 500 miles or something, and is willing to accept that they'll have minimal local support, they're obviously a very enthusiastic buyer - the kind you want evangelizing your vehicle (the kind you want to keep enthusiastic, not alienate!)

But too late now, we deal with what they've already decided.

A a person who has rolled out product releases for fortune 50 companies, I think Nissan has the correct strategy. Having cars outside the service area is really bad for PR and there is no way for Nissan to control who will be ok with issues and who will not. Since this is a massive investment and risk for them this makes complete sense to protect their business interests.

Exactly. And the risk is not just for them, IMO. If the car really does work for the vast majority of the public, but they blow the rollout and uneducated buyers cause problems, it could be a decade or more before the public is ready to try something new again. For all the "foreign oil/green/etc" issues surrounding the EV idea, patience is indeed a virtue.

Just remember that in this day of instant tweets and communications, we've all kinda gotten impatient for everything to be on that same instantaneous time line....

 

[Yodrak]

They're willing to accept minimal local support until they have a problem, then they quickly change from a very enthusiastic buyer to a very bitter critic - the kind you do not want evangelizing your vehicle (the kind you want to avoid, not risk creating!)

... if a consumer is willing to truck the vehicle 500 miles or something, and is willing to accept that they'll have minimal local support, they're obviously a very enthusiastic buyer - the kind you want evangelizing your vehicle (the kind you want to keep enthusiastic, not alienate!) ...

 

[smkettner]

Sorry but address is not a protected class of people where discrimination is protected by law
And automakers are not protected either. So feel free to make a discriminating choice between automakers, models, dealers, colors, options etc.

Nissan will do what is best for them and I suggest you do the same.

 

[idashark]

...Having cars outside the service area is really bad for PR and there is no way for Nissan to control who will be ok with issues and who will not. ..

From my original post:

Not because there's not a Nissan Certified Leaf dealer in my area, there is.

This is a Nissan Leaf Certified dealer within 20 miles of my house.

If 20 miles is 'outside of the service area' ....

 

[EVDRIVER]

...Having cars outside the service area is really bad for PR and there is no way for Nissan to control who will be ok with issues and who will not. ..

From my original post:

Not because there's not a Nissan Certified Leaf dealer in my area, there is.

This is a Nissan Leaf Certified dealer within 20 miles of my house.

If 20 miles is 'outside of the service area' ....

Are they fully trained and set up to service the Leaf? Call them and see when they will have EVSEs, pack service equipment, etc. I think that should answer your question.