SHENZHEN FACTORY TECHNOLOGY battery packs- is it real?

[MikeinPA]

Well - obviously this would be contingent on the packs actually functioning properly. Say they offer a kit that actually functions as advertised.

If it's non-functional, then we need some sort of PSA stating to avoid them.

With all due respect, the USA disagrees. We require imported aftermarket parts to perform equal to OEM parts, in all respects, including safety. These packs would never never pass any safety tests. Luo/VIVne could never afford the tests anyway. They don't even have a proper bench to assemble their packs--they work on the floor of a garage somewhere... probably rented by the hour.

https://www.sema.org/federal-regulation-aftermarket-parts

 

[EVPowers]

These pack suppliers are not manufacturing the batteries. They get them from a separate source. In some cases, they may even be buying them from the same source. Then they repackage them for resale.
Some of the pack suppliers are setting up shops in other Asian countries in order to try to sidestep any tariffs/restrictions. Makes sense.

Customers want the cheapest batteries. Anyone that sends money to these companies will be lab rats for the great aftermarket Asian battery module experiment. I wish the suppliers would have done their own research, or enlisted/paid folks to do real-world testing in the US. But, that never happened, and here we are.

I would gladly reduce my labor rate to install these in a consumers car.
Would be interesting to see how bad/good things are.
Time will tell.

 

[MikeinPA]

These pack suppliers are not manufacturing the batteries. They get them from a separate source. In some cases, they may even be buying them from the same source. Then they repackage them for resale.
Some of the pack suppliers are setting up shops in other Asian countries in order to try to sidestep any tariffs/restrictions. Makes sense.

Customers want the cheapest batteries. Anyone that sends money to these companies will be lab rats for the great aftermarket Asian battery module experiment. I wish the suppliers would have done their own research, or enlisted/paid folks to do real-world testing in the US. But, that never happened, and here we are.

I would gladly reduce my labor rate to install these in a consumers car.
Would be interesting to see how bad/good things are.
Time will tell.

To be clear, there are cells, modules, and pack. The stock Leaf 24 kwh pack is composed of 192 cells, assembled into 48 2s2p modules and packaged as one pack. You knew all this, I am just laying out the terminology for clarity.

The loose blue cells I see in some of the Asian marketing are probably B grade cells coming out of high volume manufacturing facilities in Shenzhen or nearby. It is possible that these cells are being assembled into modules by the Vivne people, based on their video. Yes, hand welding cells into modules in a garage somewhere. Scary.

I see some pack solutions are using a VDA 355 format module, which in a 1p8s or 1p12s format may be a viable solution provided the module is manufactured for EV use and tested/certified correctly. To be clear, a reputable manufacturer providing a VDA 355 format unit for use in high C-rate charge and discharge EV scenarios might actually be a viable solution in conjunction with a stock Leaf BMS/LBC and a CAN bridge built with MUXSAN code,

EVPowers, have you seen any VDA 355 format modules, or similar, that you would consider working with?

 

[kmcmahan]

That will be interesting.

So, just to be clear, you bought 24x new modules, presumably 180Ah, possibly labelled CATL?

Did you buy them as separate modules in a kit, or a complete Leaf battery pack in the case?

You had problems, so you’ve asked Helen at Vivne and she’s sending a reprogrammed BMS.

Is there a CANbridge involved anywhere in this? My guess is the Robert solution included one, but that the Vivne one says you don’t require it?

Please correct anything I got wrong in my summary there!

Do you know how long it will take to receive? Presumably you now have to take your battery apart to swap over the BMS. Are you up for that?

Before putting the Vivne BMS into the pack, be great if you could post some photos of it so people can examine what’s been sent.

Good luck!

I bought a complete 62 kWh battery. It was suppose to have all new CATL modules in it. It came with a Can-Buss. The LBC/BMS was supposed to be a re-programed Leaf LBC/BMS. And yes I will take photos when I open it up to exchange parts. Thanks

 

[kmcmahan]

Small detail but worth mentioning, some of Robert Luo’s videos on YouTube have the VIVNE logo on them but the name Written in Chinese.
I wonder if they are the same garage

I noticed the same thing. At some point I will ask Helen Mao about what her relationship is with Robert Lou's company.

 

[kmcmahan]

One thing I must ask, since it’s repeated question around here. Could you break down the “reflashing” process? No one here has documented a reflash of the BMS.

1. What does that mean? (To you)
2. Are we just putting in new voltage variables for the new cells?

I believe we’re all curious on what that process even looks like. Up to this moment on this thread, it’s been fully speculation that could even be done.

re-flashing is the process of putting a new program into the battery controller. This has to be done some that the instrumentation works correctly. Charging works correctly. Cell balancing works correctly. I probably missed some other details about what re-flash the LBC does.

 

[ZE0SV]

re-flashing is the process of putting a new program into the battery controller. This has to be done some that the instrumentation works correctly. Charging works correctly. Cell balancing works correctly. I probably missed some other details about what re-flash the LBC does.

I know this that’s why I put (to you), as to ask for an explanation on what he is doing in his shop for 3rd party leaf battery upgrades. Again this ties back to what Mike said
“ The packs they are making are not meeting any kind of safety requirements or indeed any requirement besides looking good enough to peel 5 or 6 thousand dollars from some trusting Leaf owner. The location of the garage is unknown, the cells are unknown, the modifications to the BMS or CAN communications unknown and these packs would never be let through customs without a ton of paperwork that does not exist.”

We are all asking for a documented process of someone who has done this before with aftermarket cells. With a different chemistry and voltage variables not natively supported by that BMS.
AND not only that, how someone would go about that, as unknown modifications to the BMS can lead to some nasty results down the road if done by someone inexperienced.

 

[Bombastinator2]

I bought a complete 62 kWh battery. It was suppose to have all new CATL modules in it. It came with a Can-Buss. The LBC/BMS was supposed to be a re-programed Leaf LBC/BMS. And yes I will take photos when I open it up to exchange parts. Thanks

“Pics or it didn’t happen” is just so different on this forum

 

[Ryan]

I noticed the same thing. At some point I will ask Helen Mao about what her relationship is with Robert Lou's company.

I got a chance to talk with Robert Luo earlier. He told me he owns his own trading company in Shenzhen. He just shot some videos in vivne's factory last October and then back to Shenzhen. Since this had caused so many misunderstandings on the internet, so he had removed all the videos shot in vivne or covered with his own company logo.

 

[noelho]

So, while waiting for more updates from Riore and kmcmahan, Ive been going down a rabbit hole with youtube videos about buying cells from China/alibaba/aliexpress, for diy solar projects.

This guy first took the plunge 2 years ago, and tried 3 different suppliers; TLDR: one was a liar/unreliable, one was ok but expensive, and final one is now his go to supplier:


This year, he is still dealing with his favourite supplier, Jenny Wu of Docan Technology:


What i've learned from these vidoes is that in 2 years, LifePo4 3.2V 300+-Ah cell prices have gone from $150+- to $70+- per cell.
I emailed Jenny Wu but unfortunately her company does not supply the equivalent Nissan Leaf cells =(

Ray has heaps of videos about building DIY solar storage if you are also interested in that.

Next up is this guy, from a year ago, talking about Alibaba Grade A vs certified EV/ESS Grade batteries


Lesson here is that if it is legit certified automotive cells, it will come with a lot of paper work and serial numbers for each cell, and certs, as per China's regulations for automotive certified cells. He claims all the super cheap ones from Alibaba are most likely not automotive standard, so watch out if you see any offers that are much cheaper than what most suppliers are offering (like what Ray discovered in the first video above)

This guy from 2 years ago, says the same thing. You can get Automotive grade batteries from sellers, but if you just want cheap ones for home solar storage, you can negotiate/shop around to get the cheap ones for home storage (caveat, more work required to balance cells, etc). He also talks about why some cells have terminals with welded studs vs without, and about getting cells directly from EVE vs from resellers.


Interesting video about compression of cells too.


And back to Nissan Leaf compatible batteries, Starmax just released this video talking about new unused CATL modules, but were manufactured from 2022. She misquotes the numbers in the video, but this is corrected in the video title and text overlays. Heaps of other videos on their site, but I havent come across any other youtubers that reviewed Starmax.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8JqbqyQSLU

Finally, this mad lad with his own custom solution for his Leaf battery upgrade:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9eSIXPUUD0

 

[MikeinPA]

You can find them on Alibaba for yourself.

All this and you cant show me the CATL cells you said were on Alibaba?

noehlho: Im referring to all the CATL modules on Alibaba from Verified suppliers.

And suddenly here is a VDA355 module with a white label saying "ningde contemporary amperex technology limited".

edit: Yet the same module at Starmax alibaba still says HY-CATL and is made by https://szwhpower.en.made-in-china.com/ !

further edit: this is what a CATL module looks like. Note the correct logo and build sophistication.

 

[Riore]

So, while waiting for more updates from Riore and kmcmahan.

I found the 62kWh owner in Australia who Vivne made the video about he's waiting on his pack to be delivered which will take some time via sea transport.

I'm not inexperienced in ordering battery cells from China as I have built a 55kWh system for my house composing of 2* 2P16S Lifepo4. Helen has just updated me with 2 videos showing my pack in testing.

 

[Bombastinator2]

The thing that kept me from buying an electric mini was its terrible range and out-of-date technology. It’s an i3 with the engine removed. I think it came out in 2022 or something.

If they update the batteries so it gets over 140 even that will work though. Minis are amazingly large inside. I fit in one better than I fit in a leaf, which is only just. It’s bigger inside than a Y. It’s what you buy if you want a sports car but can’t fit in one. Some tall celebrities have them like Penn from pen&teller. He’s 6’5” or something. No Ferraris for him.

 

[ZE0SV]

More battery updates from VIVNE!!
(I swear they’re reading this thread lol)

She gets close enough to the QR code that you can pause and read it. No where on the QR does it say CATL like the genuine ones I've seen.

 

[kmcmahan]

Hi all,

I recently stumbled upon this company on youtube, not sure if I am allowed to post links but you can search for Robert Luo. Apparently they make CATL NMC battery packs for the Leaf, you can buy just the cells and upgrade yourself or you can buy the whole pack. 62kwh battery pack is about 6200 USD, without shipping and taxes etc. They claim that because of using the big CATL battery, the charge/discharge C rate is lower and then it does not heat up the battery so much and active thermal cooling is not needed.

There is a lot of videos and also a video of him driving the ZE0 Leaf with 62kwh pack for 526km on a single charge.

So I am wondering if anyone has tried to do business with them, was it successfully? They claim a sealed pack from them is just needed to bolt on to the car and that's it, should work without any other setup.

I bought a 62 kWh from Robert and it does not work properly. He has quit communicating with me. You can look through this thread for more comments and information. I am also trying to work with Helen Mao to get a BMS that might work. Looks like she may be ghosting me to. Beware of Chinese battery packs until someone in the community actually gets a good working pack!

 

[MikeinPA]

kmcmahan, we are all sorry to see this go on. They should send you a 62 kwh LBC, this one https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-controller-assy-battery~293a0-5sf0b.html , the correct can bridge, and the correct current sensor if needed to get the pack talking correctly with the vehicle.

MODS, there really needs to be a PSA thread that looks at all of these cell/module/pack offers.

 

[Atkam]

Many thanks for all the information you share regarding purchasing a 50-62kWh battery for a Nissan leaf ZEO. I am also deciding to order, but after reading the whole topic I decided to wait a little longer. In a few months, it will be revealed whether the mentioned purchase is worth the money or not. In the final stage, the cells can be used as an energy storage device for a solar power plant. Regarding the risk of security and various certifications and bureaucratic obstacles for import, I will not complicate things too much, because all other variants with range extenders are much more risky.

 

[EVPowers]

Most folks seem to care mostly about low price.

They know than none of these packs are proven to work long term.
They know none of these modules have
They know none of these have been tested to be shown safe

Yet, they still keep sending their money.

Please realize that
YOU (the customer) are the test subject.
YOUR money is fully at risk.

All of these companies have been given opportunities to send packs in a cost/risk sharing trial run in the US.
None of them have stepped forward to make that happen so far.
Why is that?
Whatever the reason, it is extremely disappointing.

And the forums, the FaceBook groups, etc all continue to allow this kind promotion.
And if anyone in the US still wants to try one of these packs, feel free to reach out to me and we can talk through your project.
It'll be fascinating to see what sort of product you get. I'd be happy to discount my labor for your install.
Contact me at my shop anytime 608-729-4082.

 

[noelho]

More battery updates from VIVNE!!
(I swear they’re reading this thread lol)

She gets close enough to the QR code that you can pause and read it. No where on the QR does it say CATL like the genuine ones I've seen.

Yeah that QR code isnt enough proof, as per that other DIY solar video, they need to include all the serials, paperwork and certs. But once its in the pack you wont be able to check unless you tear apart your pack =(

 

[MikeinPA]

And if anyone in the US still wants to try one of these packs, feel free to reach out to me and we can talk through your project.
It'll be fascinating to see what sort of product you get. I'd be happy to discount my labor for your install.
Contact me at my shop anytime 608-729-4082.

If someone sets up a gofundme (or whatever) to support kmcmahan in terms of buying a 62 kwh LBC, a good CAN bridge and tech support from some one like EVpowers, I am in for $50. He has been super patient and persistent with Luo/Vivne over the past two months.