Should I buy 2022 Leaf S Plus for commuting?

[alozzy]

Thanks everyone, you all have really given me the confidence to move forward and convinced me to go with sv plus, instead of S plus. I think I will be much better off during the shoulder months...

I think you'll be thrilled with the car and the range will be enough that it will seldom be an annoyance.

Congratulations, enjoy the $20k you saved vs buying a Tesla :lol:

 

[knightmb]

I believe the range/efficiency difference between the S+ and SV+ or SL+ is due to the 16-inch tires being Bridgestone Ecopia and a size narrower than the 17-inch Michelin Energy Saver A/S. The 16-inch tires are 205 mm while the 17-inch tires are 215 mm width.

Going to Ecopia tires made a noticeable difference for my old Gen 1 (2013 SV), not that I had anything against the Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires, but the Ecopia seem to be king if you want maximum range. When the tires on my 2020 burn out soon, I'll be getting a replacement set of Ecopia for it as well.

 

[knightmb]

I don't understand the mindset that an EV has to make the round trip on a single charge all year round, but then I make do with a 24 kWh pack that requires en-route charging on a regular basis. That, and I'm cheap so I can't justify spending over $50k USD to get an EV that will do more than 260 miles per charge (Ford Mustang Mach-E, pick your Tesla) :lol:

I think it's because everyone has become accustomed to gas stations being *everywhere* they feel that unless the same is true for QC stations, they get range anxiety right away. Imagine driving your gas car and thinking, "My gas car has a range of 300 miles, if I can't make all my trips within that range, I can't drive it". :lol:

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

It's funny, but that is kind of my wife's feeling. She will never drive more than 100 miles at a go, so a 200 mile ev is double her longest use case.

 

[LeftieBiker]

My housemate was adamant that until an EV had 300 miles of range, they wasn't for her. The she got an SV+, and is fine with it. I've even convinced her to keep it charged to about 60-80%.

 

[GerryAZ]

The rims are 5 lbs lighter each, also which helps. The S+ "feels" like it has lighter steering as a result.

I strongly doubt that the 16-inch steel wheels are lighter than the 17-inch aluminum. I have no experience with steel wheels on LEAF because my 2011 had 16-inch aluminum wheels. The main difference in efficiency is due to the tread width and tire rolling resistance, not weight. I just replaced a set of run flat tires which were much heavier than the OEM tires or the Cross Climate 2 Michelins that I have now. The higher weight does reduce acceleration (due to higher rotating mass), but does not make much difference to efficiency at steady speed. It takes more energy to accelerate, but the inertia yields a bit more regeneration when stopping so the net difference is minimal. Higher tread width increases rolling resistance and possibly air drag. Also, wider tires have more resistance to steering input.

 

[SageBrush]

Congratulations, enjoy the $20k you saved vs buying a Tesla :lol:

Are you laughing to let people know you are BS'g ?

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery. It actually fits the OP's usage, unlike the LEAF that falls short on day #1 and only gets worse with time. OP may have been penny wise, but I'll bet he was pound foolish.

 

[johnlocke]

Congratulations, enjoy the $20k you saved vs buying a Tesla :lol:

Are you laughing to let people know you are BS'g ?

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery. It actually fits the OP's usage, unlike the LEAF that falls short on day #1 and only gets worse with time. OP may have been penny wise, but I'll bet he was pound foolish.

Based on the OP's original post, He needs no more than 160 mi. on his worst day and 110 typically. An S+ will deliver over 200 mi. How does that fail on day 1? The M3SR+ is $44K out the door. The S+ is $35K out the door less dealer discount and $7.5K Federal rebate and whatever rebate or incentive Mass. offers. There's $2K available if he finances it not through NMAC or 0% financing through NMAC. That brings his cost down to $25K or less. Not having the heat pump is a minus but for a couple of $K more he could upgrade to an SV+ and still be under $27K. It's not $20K difference but it is $19K for the S+ and $17K for the SV+. Oh, and there's the fact that ALL Tesla's are backordered for 6 months. Between the fact that there's $11K in rebates offered to me here in CA. and the fact that I can't actually buy a M3 of any flavor for 6 mo. or more, I'm going to buy an SL+. It's not the car I wanted to buy ( I wanted a Y) but it is a car I can live with at the price I can get it at. And I'll have delivery by the end of the month.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Alas, there is little point in trying to tell the Tesla Fanatics that other cars can work well for people, too. One wonders how the automobile industry ever developed at all, given that the first real cars were only produced less than two decades ago...

 

[user 24513]

I'm going to buy an SL+. It's not the car I wanted to buy ( I wanted a Y) but it is a car I can live with at the price I can get it at. And I'll have delivery by the end of the month.

I do not think you will regret it.... these are good cars.

 

[SageBrush]

Alas, there is little point in trying to tell the Tesla Fanatics that other cars can work well for people, too.

You are projecting, and if anything it is you and a couple others who are playing LEAF fanatics. The car is best sized for the job, meaning the person, the place, and the usage have to be taken into account. Coastal Californians and Vancouverites have no clue about MA driving in the winter; retired people who putt-putt around town can forget what is needed to commute daily, on time, no matter the weather. And it is best to presume until proven otherwise that Newbies are not going to eek out the last GID, know a Wh from a watt, be able to flex with headwinds or bad roads, or be inclined to be stingy with cabin heating. How many of them (or YOU, for that matter) have a good grasp of the heat pump COP curve as ambient temperature drops ? Does OP know that his capacity may well drop 5 - 10% within 2 years ? OP may be sitting at L2, charging at 6 kW while running cabin heating at 3 -4 kW in the winter. For 15 minutes one of you says ? BS

The shorthand for all of this is to buy EPA range that is double the commute range that the owner wants to be drama free. People can make do with less range, but it requires a toolkit, the right conditions, and a motivated owner. And in that, those of you who provided the affirmation OP wanted did him no favors, because you have set him up for failure.

I realize that the LEAF is the "value" EV now that the Bolt is in recall, but it does no good to buy a car that is already marginal today for the tasks asked of it, or turns into a drag on life for the owner.

 

[Snargleblarg]

The shorthand for all of this is to buy EPA range that is double the commute range that the owner wants to be drama free.

Okay but didn't you also argue in this thread that "The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery."?

The M3 SR+ does not give double the OP's desired drama free range. But you made the M3 SR+ comment within this context. So you seem to be suggesting 262 miles of Tesla range would be enough, while a Nissan would require 320 mile range to satisfy the OP. If we apply the 2x standard consistently then we would be discussing the M3 LR as a viable solution at a whopping $52,690 delivered.

I agree that this usage case is a stretch, perhaps a stretch too far for the Leaf. But I also doubt that the best solution is to spend 2x the money for a Tesla.

 

[johnlocke]

The shorthand for all of this is to buy EPA range that is double the commute range that the owner wants to be drama free.

Okay but didn't you also argue in this thread that "The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery."?

The M3 SR+ does not give double the OP's desired drama free range. But you made the M3 SR+ comment within this context. So you seem to be suggesting 262 miles of Tesla range would be enough, while a Nissan would require 320 mile range to satisfy the OP. If we apply the 2x standard consistently then we would be discussing the M3 LR as a viable solution at a whopping $52,690 delivered.

I agree that this usage case is a stretch, perhaps a stretch too far for the Leaf. But I also doubt that the best solution is to spend 2x the money for a Tesla.

We all know that the EPA numbers are optimistic at best. Real world Tesla M3SR+ is closer to 230. The Leaf + real world is 200-210. Either car will work for the OP. We really don't know enough about the 60KWH battery yet to characterize degradation but Mass. is not a state where other Leafs have had battery issues. In his climate I would expect minimal degradation. Even in Arizona, 60KWH batteries seem to do OK so far. Winter in an S+ in Mass. might be a stretch If the OP needs to do 160 miles without a charge but the M3 also suffers from cold weather syndrome as well and would be pushing it too. If he moves up to the SV+ then things are a lot closer. It's still true that the Leaf is 40% cheaper and you can actually buy one and get it this month. If the OP has the ability to pickup even a modest charge at work or do a DCFC in-route if necessary, problem disappears. Spending $20K more to cover a1-2% possibility that can be mitigated with a little planning doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

 

[SageBrush]

The shorthand for all of this is to buy EPA range that is double the commute range that the owner wants to be drama free.

Okay but didn't you also argue in this thread that "The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery."?

The M3 SR+ does not give double the OP's desired drama free range. But you made the M3 SR+ comment within this context. So you seem to be suggesting 262 miles of Tesla range would be enough, while a Nissan would require 320 mile range to satisfy the OP. If we apply the 2x standard consistently then we would be discussing the M3 LR as a viable solution at a whopping $52,690 delivered.

I agree that this usage case is a stretch, perhaps a stretch too far for the Leaf. But I also doubt that the best solution is to spend 2x the money for a Tesla.

There is more than a little truth in your criticism. I actually considered just your points after I wrote the post and in decided to leave it for a couple of reasons:

1. The first part of the post decried the '20k difference' that is factually wrong, and in part because it ignores the differences between the cars. It was really not meant to be combined with 'is this a good car for OP.'

2. Then I said that the SR *could* be **that** car, which does run counter to the 2x dictum. I admit to some lack of confidence here, but I decided to guess that between Superchargers and the anticipated CCS adapter, the radius of driving without drama would be extended. It also helps that Teslas have less battery degradation and a much better, integrated heating system so the winter hit will be less.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You are projecting, and if anything it is you and a couple others who are playing LEAF fanatics.

There is an easy test for that. Do I tell everyone that the Leaf is the best car for them? Do I tell people that the Tesla ____ is a lousy car and that they should buy a Leaf? I do not. Finally, do I hang out at a Tesla owners' forum and take potshots at Teslas? I think that a little self-examination is in order for you, Sagebrush.

 

[knightmb]

Congratulations, enjoy the $20k you saved vs buying a Tesla :lol:

Are you laughing to let people know you are BS'g ?

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery. It actually fits the OP's usage, unlike the LEAF that falls short on day #1 and only gets worse with time. OP may have been penny wise, but I'll bet he was pound foolish.

I'm not going to jump on you about you opinion, but as I've attended two public EV events in a row now. During these events, owners of both Telsa and Nissan brought half a dozen of their own cars to give the public test drives. So we had several Model 3 and Nissan for anyone to walk up and test drive. To my surprise, nearly everyone was more interested in the Nissan. To them, it seem to have more utility use, family use. Everyone liked the Model 3 also, great car, but the price tag is where most of them balked, even though it had more range, faster, etc. 200 miles really does seem to be the magic number where most people don't worry about the range difference so much. If anything, the math in their head says they must pay a *lot* of money to get that extra range with Tesla.
Different strokes for different folks, the Leaf is just easier to get, easier to finance now. As long as it fits the use case that the owner wants, they won't be disappointed with either Tesla or Nissan, provided they have all the info up front and not a sales-man pitch. That is what the OP came here to ask.

[edit] During these events, I never hear the owners bad-mouthing either EV, they understand that people have to work with a budget and within the car they want. You can't please all of the people, all of the time.

 

[alozzy]

Congratulations, enjoy the $20k you saved vs buying a Tesla :lol:

Are you laughing to let people know you are BS'g ?

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is 262 miles range, is a LOT more car than a LEAF, and is $40k excluding taxes and delivery. It actually fits the OP's usage, unlike the LEAF that falls short on day #1 and only gets worse with time. OP may have been penny wise, but I'll bet he was pound foolish.

Earlier, I said:

I'm cheap so I can't justify spending over $50k USD to get an EV that will do more than 260 miles per charge (Ford Mustang Mach-E, pick your Tesla)

Technically, you are correct that the Model 3 SR will do 262 miles, but I meant significantly more than 260 miles, not barely 260 miles...

A Model 3 Premium and Long Range are both $20k more than a Leaf Plus, once the fed tax rebate is factored in.

I would never buy a Tesla, as they have owners by the balls when it comes to repairs and servicing. Pray that you never have any major issues with your Telsa as you might as well tow the car to the junk yard and buy a new one vs paying the repair bill.

 

[SageBrush]

I think that a little self-examination is in order for you, Sagebrush.

Done. I own a LEAF, and as I have said too many times to count, it works great for us as a 1/2 car and was excellent value at the price I paid for it.

I also am fully aware of why it is a 1/2 car:
limited range
CHAdeMO
no thermal battery control

I also know that NIssan SUCKS

Your turn. Explain why my posts that talk about a LEAF in the context of ONE PERSON set off your self-worth bells.

 

[SageBrush]

I would never buy a Tesla, as they have owners by the balls when it comes to repairs and servicing. Pray that you never have any major issues with your Telsa as you might as well tow the car to the junk yard and buy a new one vs paying the repair bill.

As if the same is not true for Nissan.

By the way, I've finally has some repair bills with my Tesla, both this month

1. A headlight bulb stopped working. A Tesla mobile ranger came out to my home as a scheduled visit and spent a bit under an hour performing the repair. It turned out to be wire damage from rodents. At that time I also bought a 12v battery from the ranger.

2. A couple weeks later the car would turn on, but then threw up an error message that multiple power systems were inactive (power steering, traction control, etc. The car could move but not really be driven. Tesla sent a tow truck within an hour to bring the car to the service center which is 70 miles away. That turned out to also be rodent damage in a different place in the electric harness.

Go ahead, estimate repair bills. The car is still in its 4 year new car warranty, but neither repair was covered.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Explain why my posts that talk about a LEAF in the context of ONE PERSON set off your self-worth bells.

Because you do it often, and have been for what seems like years, now. In combination with your rather...abrasive...style, it has gotten to the point where I filter you, and only read your posts when it seems, from people quoting you, like you're walking the line again. I don't understand why, when your experience with your own Leaf has been generally positive, you feel the need to denigrate these cars - especially the much-improved Leaf II - but if you are going to act like a Tesla Fanboi, that's how you will be treated.