SPX Power Express - Updated!

[LilDave]

I heard from the dealership today. They think the part will be $500 but aren't sure when they will get it. The car has already been down 2.5 weeks, 1.5 of those at the dealer. I didn't have it taken to the dealer before I returned from my trip. I wanted to make sure to get pictures and to talk to the dealer in person because I knew this would be a messy situation. I am still waiting on an estimate so I can send that to Bosch. They refuse to escalate the ticket until they receive that information. They were a little more defensive the last time I talked to them. I figure I will give them one chance to make it right. I really wish they would at least act like they are taking this seriously. Melting plugs are not a positive for EV's and their business.

 

[arnolddeleon]

FWIW I have a Blink with seemingly identical REMA nozzles. When I got a 2012 RAV4-EV I did some test charges with the Blink and found significant temperature rise on both current conducting pins. When I reported this to Blink they had someone come out to replace nozzle/cord set. I've only tested at 3OA once since the replacement and it is significantly cooler. Its current primary job is to charge our 2011 Nissan LEAF at 16A so it's not stressed a lot. I would probably do another supervised test before I trust it to charge at 30A unattended.

My bet is that we have another "bad" REMA nozzle. We already have plenty of evidence to suggest that some subset of REMA are faulty.

BTW I suspect that the problem is not being triggered more frequently partially because most of the folks that ended up EVSEs that have the defect still have only 3.3kW charging capable vehicles. And even for those who have LEAFs w/ 6kW chargers, I suspect most charging sessions are relatively short, mitigating the problem.

arnold

 

[LilDave]

I actually just googled that and found some pictures of the Blink chargers with the faulty plugs. The resultant damage looks identical to mine. This will hopefully make things easier with Bosch. I am not sure they will have much of a leg to stand on when I bring up this information. It is a known problem.

I agree that much of this has been masked by the lower rate of charging. I noticed it was fairly hot when charging my Leaf but never hot when charging the Volt. Unfortunately I didn't think much of it at the time.

 

[johnrhansen]

I have a new Bosch power max charger. Is that afflicted with the same problem?

 

[sergeyka]

The type of SPX EVSE the OP has requires cable upgrade when pilot is to 30A. So the question that has not been answered yet is what was the pilot setting in the EVSE?

I have an early production SPX unit and my documentation does not mention a cable upgrade for 30A. Do you remember where you saw that requirement?

That was mentioned few times on this forum, here for example:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And gm-volt forum:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9599-Low-Cost-DIY-SPX-L2-EVSE-Plug-In-Install-quot-Sharing-Dryer-Outlet-quot-Instructions-amp-Pics&p=93765#post93765" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in the technical specification:
http://www.pluginnow.com/sites/default/files/SS10-283%20REVC%20Power%20Xpress%20Wall%20Mount%20Spec.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.pluginnow.com/sites/default/files/SS11-195D%20Power%20Xpress%20Wall%20Mount%20Mkt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Field adjustable 12-32A, 32A setting requires cable, connector, and plug assembly upgrade.

 

[DaveEV]

Another faulty REMA plug. See Tony's pics from last November and read through the thread for the full analysis: Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

Sure seems like good reason to install a safety thermistor on the J1772 inlet. I bet you manufacturers make them standard soon.

 

[LilDave]

Thanks for the links. Very helpful information.

I am now just waiting on the PDF of the estimate from my dealer to send on to Bosch. My car will be held hostage until the now $930.61 is paid. Unbelievable that I am being presented a bill when this is obviously an emerging issue. I am sure glad I'm paying a lease payment on a car that I can't drive!

 

[surfingslovak]

Here is a quote from ECOtality's most recent 8-K report. They use the same REMA plugs as SPX on their Blink charging stations:

http://investor.ecotality.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1437749-13-10447&CIK=1301206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Further, the Company is facing some uncertainty regarding the resolution of a phenomenon occurring in some of the Company’s previously installed EVSEs which causes overheating, and in certain rare cases melting, of the connector plug that connects the EVSE to the electric vehicle when charging.

The Company, along with certain automotive original equipment manufacturers (“OEMs”) and equipment suppliers, has been actively evaluating the issue in an attempt to determine the cause and to address the problem. Even though a root cause for the observed phenomenon is yet to be definitively verified, in the interim, on August 9, 2013, the Company commenced the reduction of the maximum power delivered by certain of the EVSEs, which reduction has been shown in limited laboratory test to reduce the temperature rise in the connector plug to acceptable levels.

The Company continues to discuss with the parts supplier of the connector plug a plan of action which would require the parts supplier to pay to replace either all the connector plugs in its existing EVSE units or those connector plugs identified to be problematic. At this time, the Company cannot assure you that negotiations will result in the parts supplier agreeing to incur the cost of such remediation. Accordingly, the Company may have to incur such costs and expenses in the future.

In addition, some OEMs have notified the Company that they are considering communicating to their customers and other parties to advise them not to use the Company’s EVSEs because of the connector plug issue if the Company does not replace all connector plugs on its approximately 12,000 existing EVSEs in the market. The Company believes such a communication may have a material adverse impact on the near term cash flow and prospects of the Company.

 

[Bicster]

Interesting how they are pretending they don't know what the problem is.

 

[MikeD]

I have not seen much discussion of the possible role of the coupling parts that may be relevant in this problem, both in the car's inlet and the cable's plug. I have seen mention of two materials that could have been used and that is silver plating and nickel plating (presumably over copper), but there are probably a number of alloys of both that conceivably could be used. Are the coupling parts the same when designed for, say, 16 amps all the way to 80 amps? Then there is the question of how soundly the coupling parts mechanically mate -- surely in the same ballpark of importance as the soundness of the crimps to the coupling parts in both the inlet and the plug, and both are more subject to issues of wear, corruption by foreign substances, damage by kids etc, and possibly even corrosion.

The J1772 coupling appears all in all to be a complex component in the charging process and in the end will probably not have as simple and trouble-free implementation as we all would like to see.

 

[davewill]

The type of SPX EVSE the OP has requires cable upgrade when pilot is to 30A. So the question that has not been answered yet is what was the pilot setting in the EVSE?

I have an early production SPX unit and my documentation does not mention a cable upgrade for 30A. Do you remember where you saw that requirement?

The issue is that the Power Xpress has settings for 12, 16, 24, and 32a, but the cord and plug are only rated for 30a. Since there's no 30a setting (why?), you're stuck using the 24a setting unless you upgrade...which is all rather academic since, to the best of my knowledge, the LEAF can't exceed the 30a plug rating no matter what the SPX was set to.

 

[pchilds]

I suggest that anyone that has an EVSE with a REMA J1772 connector, write REMA at this link. I requested replacement cables and that they recall all of their defective J1772 assemblies.

http://rema-ev.com/contact/

 

[TonyWilliams]

At a minimum, file a tort (small claims) against the EVSE manufacturer, and cite the numerous other melting pins by the REMA J1772 plug.

Toyota just fixed my car, no questions asked. $2200 in warranty costs.

 

[smkettner]

The issue is that the Power Xpress has settings for 12, 16, 24, and 32a, but the cord and plug are only rated for 30a. Since there's no 30a setting (why?), you're stuck using the 24a setting unless you upgrade...which is all rather academic since, to the best of my knowledge, the LEAF can't exceed the 30a plug rating no matter what the SPX was set to.

Remind us what 2013 LEAF can draw? I am thinking 28 or 29 amps. Seems a bit high for a 30a rated component long term.
IMO SPX should be set no higher than 24a unless higher rated cable is used.

What is the SPX setting out of the box?

 

[LilDave]

Finally got an estimate from the dealer.

 

[davewill]

Remind us what 2013 LEAF can draw? I am thinking 28 or 29 amps. Seems a bit high for a 30a rated component long term.
IMO SPX should be set no higher than 24a unless higher rated cable is used.

What is the SPX setting out of the box?

27.5 amps is what's been reported here. The rating on the cable and plug is supposed to be what you can really draw on a continuous basis. It's not like the 80% rule for the circuit breaker.

 

[LilDave]

At a minimum, file a tort (small claims) against the EVSE manufacturer, and cite the numerous other melting pins by the REMA J1772 plug.

Toyota just fixed my car, no questions asked. $2200 in warranty costs.

That is the plan if they refuse to pay for the damage to the Leaf. They now have all the information they need to make a decision. The car will sit at the dealership until somebody pays the bill. I know from experience that if I pay the bill that I lose most of the leverage.

 

[Bicster]

Anyone else think that $1k for parts/labor to replace the J1772 receptacle is obscene? I wonder how much wiring has to be replaced along with it. I guess that is where the cost comes in?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Anyone else think that $1k for parts/labor to replace the J1772 receptacle is obscene? I wonder how much wiring has to be replaced along with it. I guess that is where the cost comes in?

Not like you can get the parts at autozone and fix it yourself.

Congratulations LilDave you just found some new fodder for naysayers telling the world evs are to be avoided. They would enjoy this story just in case the coal chant gets old.

The old 3.3 charger isn't sounding so bad now.

 

[pchilds]

You can get a J1772 receptacle for $90, with 1 meter of wire for $155. http://www.tucsonev.com/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;