Starbucks and chademo

[rw86347]

I think it would be awesome if Starbucks had fast chargers that could be used for $2.

You know we would all be drinking coffee while waiting.

Maybe ALL of us should call them with this suggestion!!!

If someone knows a good number to call post it here.

 

[tantousha]

Long time lurker and past Starbucks partner.

We have a level 3 in Bellingham WA that's part of the green highway and in a Starbucks parking lot. It is a great idea.

There is a website called mystarbucksidea.com which allows people to post ideas for the company, and there are a few posts suggesting charging points, but the comments for these ideas are filled with the usual naysayers not wanting to take up precious parking spots or having it drive up the price of their lattes.

Alternatively, their customer service phone number is 1-800-23-LATTE.

Good luck guys!

 

[Maaz]

it would bring in so much more business.

 

[adric22]

it would bring in so much more business.

Perhaps in some areas. Other areas they would sit unused most of the time.

 

[Randy]

it would bring in so much more business.

Can you estimate how many more people per day would visit and what the additional sales volume would be?

Nissan says the average cost to install their DC Fast Charge unit is $49K for material and labor. In addition to that, Starbucks would be paying for the cost of electricity to operate the station, insurance, maintenance, etc. Here in San Diego, electricity costs would be about $1200 - $1500 per month depending on usage...Not sure about insurance and maintenance, but maybe another couple of thousand dollars per year?

It doesn't look that attractive if I own the Starbucks....Grant money helps, but where's the break-even point?

 

[johnrhansen]

they could make charging free for gold card members, just scan your card. If you bought a cup of coffee from them that day it's free, if not, it's $2. If you need to scan your credit card, it's 3.

 

[mwalsh]

That's where CSUF was planning to put their's.

No word from Doug Kind though on how far along it is though. Actually, he didn't even answer my last email inquiry, which is very unusual for him. I'm actually wondering if he's not there any more.

 

[tantousha]

it would bring in so much more business.

Can you estimate how many more people per day would visit and what the additional sales volume would be?

Nissan says the average cost to install their DC Fast Charge unit is $49K for material and labor. In addition to that, Starbucks would be paying for the cost of electricity to operate the station, insurance, maintenance, etc. Here in San Diego, electricity costs would be about $1200 - $1500 per month depending on usage...Not sure about insurance and maintenance, but maybe another couple of thousand dollars per year?

It doesn't look that attractive if I own the Starbucks....Grant money helps, but where's the break-even point?

But wouldn't an option to offset the costs be to go with one of the 3rd party suppliers like (heaven-forbid) Blink or evGo?

I do think that Starbucks would be ideal... I mean, where else can you adhere to the 30 minute charge, stay with your car and have an enjoyable cup of joe? Haha... Hell, they could charge the market rate ($5 to $10) for a QC and I'd still choose them over the alternatives...

 

[Elephanthead]

While any place that you can enjoyable spend 30 minutes is perfect, the problem is unless you can sell 20 charges a day, (assuming all 20 people arrive 30 minutes apart) you can't pay for the install and POS costs. Public charging works great at level 2 at hotels and destination attractions. Until level 3 chargers are $5k to install it really is just a PR stunt.

 

[Nubo]

Pretty close to the original vision, but might have to change the name.

CHAdeMO is a pun on Japanese phrase "Let's have a tea while charging"

 

[GlennD]

All of the LOCAL Carl's JR have at least 3 L2 chargers. I have no plans to use them since they are local to me. Most of the time they sit unused. I only once saw a Leaf charging. Since only 1 blue led was lighted he really needed a charge.

You really need to appeal to distant trade to make the chargers worthwhile. I go to Carl's to eat breakfast, not to charge.

 

[cwerdna]

But wouldn't an option to offset the costs be to go with one of the 3rd party suppliers like (heaven-forbid) Blink or evGo?

I do think that Starbucks would be ideal... I mean, where else can you adhere to the 30 minute charge, stay with your car and have an enjoyable cup of joe? Haha... Hell, they could charge the market rate ($5 to $10) for a QC and I'd still choose them over the alternatives...

Well, Ecotality went bankrupt so clearly they couldn't come close to breaking even. And their new owner (CCGI) has amazingly bad losses. See http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI+Income+Statement&annual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, keeping in mind those numbers are in thousands.

Sure, it would be nice to have a DC FC at/near a Starbucks but the price is tough and the fairness of a $5 (or whatever) flat fee instead of billing by time or kWh has been a subject of MUCH discussion in the past.

 

[hill]

Some of us brought up 'how great it'd be' re Starbucks almost 3 years ago. Yet here we are.
Then again, we 1st heard about a Chademo at Cal State Fullerton about 2 years ago. Must figure out the connection.

 

[user 10599]

Well, Ecotality went bankrupt so clearly they couldn't come close to breaking even. And their new owner (CCGI) has amazingly bad losses. See http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI+Income+Statement&annual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, keeping in mind those numbers are in thousands.

Launching a new business model is very challenging. As an early launcher, Ecotality had to spend to put an infrastructure in place before there were customers. Given the startup costs versus the number of EVs on the road in 2011 and 2012, any operation in this space would lose money for quite a while. Most start ups fail due to inadequate capitalization and not realizing how long and how much money will be lost in the initial start up period. Each year, as EV sales continue to grow, the market will start to look better. Of course, finding the right business model, i.e., monthly fees, per use charge, charge per x amount of energy, which locations to place evse's, etc.; will take time for the competitors to sort out. Also, as the market expands, economies of scale will bring down the per unit installation costs.

These challenges are surmountable with appropriate capitalization and competent management. Tesla has overcome tremendous obstacles for example. When the customer base does get large enough to profitably support charging networks, you will want to already be a dominant player. Of course there is the whole chicken vs. the egg debate as the network is important to getting enough acceptance of the EVs to get enough customers for the network to exist.

I for one intend to join any charging network that I find operating in my area as I want to maximize my flexibility in using my Leaf. And I will still save tremendous money versus driving an ICE. Right now, that is 3 competing networks (Blink, evGo, and ChargePoint). I suspect over time that will dwindle to 2. I hope it doesn't go to 1 as that could be a monopoly and then we could have other problems.

I believe that EVs are a vitally needed zero-emission transportation solution (not a complete replacement for ICE, but should become a major player). Therefore, a supporting infrastructure is also critically important. I wish these guess the best of luck.

FWIW - I also think the Level 3s at Starbucks would be an awesome idea. I am not a coffee drinker, but do go for tea. Level 3s at Starbucks would increase my visits/purchases.

 

[johnrhansen]

it would bring in so much more business.

Can you estimate how many more people per day would visit and what the additional sales volume would be?

Nissan says the average cost to install their DC Fast Charge unit is $49K for material and labor. In addition to that, Starbucks would be paying for the cost of electricity to operate the station, insurance, maintenance, etc. Here in San Diego, electricity costs would be about $1200 - $1500 per month depending on usage...Not sure about insurance and maintenance, but maybe another couple of thousand dollars per year?

It doesn't look that attractive if I own the Starbucks....Grant money helps, but where's the break-even point?

50 grand to install a charger?? There is your room for improvement! I'd imagine if you gave up a little power, say make a 20-30 KW fast charger that could be made without needing to have a 3 phase service, you'd save a ton of money, and still be able to charge your car in the time it would take you to buy and consume your latte, as well as check a few emails with the free wi fi.

 

[davewill]

... You really need to appeal to distant trade to make the chargers worthwhile. I go to Carl's to eat breakfast, not to charge.

Well, I have charged over breakfast several times to good effect, both at a Subway and a cafe near my office. I had extra errands that day, and stopped for breakfast at the work end of my commute. The extra 10 miles were extremely useful on those days for extra errands. With a faster OBC, it would have been more useful still.

 

[DaveEV]

50 grand to install a charger?? There is your room for improvement! I'd imagine if you gave up a little power, say make a 20-30 KW fast charger that could be made without needing to have a 3 phase service.

Yes, 80A L2 (up to 19.2 kW on 240V) charging that is possible on J1772 would be very useful, and at least the hardware only costs $2200 ($3000 w/pedestal). Labor and BOS still jumps that price up significantly, but that's still probably about the same as what a CHAdeMO plug/cable costs without the rest of the hardware.

Yeah, a LEAF might have to wait about twice as long for a charge worst case (near empty to 80% charge), but a lot of other times the time difference would not be material.

Getting the cost of public charging infrastructure down is a must for EVs to succeed. Not sure how to solve the labor cost of trenching which is required in so many installations, though...