the free ride is over

[johnrhansen]

I think I'm going to sign up for the summer months only June thru Sept., I never take the leaf on road trips during the winter because of it's drastically reduced range in the cold. I'd rather pay the 15 dollar fee than pay 160 dollars in fees for the 8 months I don't need it.

 

[pkulak]

Jesus, didn't our tax dollars pay to install these things? Only to have this company impose the stupidest pricing they can think of on us? Oregon and Washington spend all this money to make road trips a reality in an electric car, and all of a sudden it's cheaper to just rent a gas car because Aerovironment decides that's what it wants?

I've always defended Blink because I think $5 a charge is fair, and it's convenient: just swipe your card and start charging. But now everything between Blink stations is going to be $7.50 and _require a phone call_??? All they are trying to do is push people to the unlimited plan in the hopes that thousands of people will forget about it and leave it active for 6 years after they sell their car. What a disaster.

 

[Graffi]

IMHO the only way to make it workable for everyone is to charge by the kwhr. The way I figure it a cost of $0.50 per kwhr would be the maximum that I would pay to charge. Anything higher and it is cheaper and easier for me to take the ICE car.

In my case, it cost me $0.11 per kwhr at home. Away from home it cost me my TIME. Today my wife and I were driving around and ended up going about 70 miles, mostly on the freeway but lots of street driving also. Since we limit our charge to 80% this was about all we could have done ending up home on empty. However, since we did not know how many miles it would end up being, during the early afternoon I dropped the wife off at the grocery store while I drove another block down the street to the Nissan dealer DCQC. We had used about 25 miles by this time so I spent 15 minutes on the charger to get me back to 80%. At home the 6 kwhr would have cost $0.66 but since I got it free, it cost me 30 minutes of my time (5 minutes driving each way, 5 minutes waiting for someone else to finish, and 15 minutes to charge). I got back, parked, and found her in the checkout line.

Why would I drive out of my way to find one of these L3 DCQC's to pay $7.50, $5.00, or any other per charge rate that is more expensive than gas? Even if I needed 12 kwhr charge, at home that is still only $1.32. Why spend all that extra time to charge if it cost as much or more than gas with the other ICE car?

I understand they have overhead to be paid for in addition to the cost of electricity, but as was stated above, this was all paid for by taxes already. Now they only need to pay for maintenance and admin. If the price was reasonable then more EV drivers would use these charging stations rather than them sitting unused.

We now have about 7,000 miles on our Leaf in just under 6 months. To date the only charging we have done, other than at home, has been at Nissan dealers for a few trips, and the dealer we leased it through on days like today. We have NEVER used any of the Pay sites, even though we got the cards when we got the car (just in case). Why waste my time and pay $5.00 or $7.50 for something I can get for $1.00 at home and not waste time?

Above when I stated that the most I would pay was $0.50 per kwhr did not mean that this is the price I recommended. If it was anywhere close to what I pay at home then the price would be acceptable. Anything above that would make me unhappy up to the max at which point I would rather take the ICE.

 

[pyrotech]

Just my 2 cents worth, I use the Aerovironment QC once or twice a month. My main QC is about 35 miles from my house, so I kind of depend on it if I have to travel out of town. It was nonfunctional for the whole month of January, thank goodness the L2 was working.
I sent AV an email asking what their commitment is to maintaining the QC'ers in working condition, no reply as yet. I wouldn't mind supporting the network, but that's assuming the network is maintained well.

 

[hill]

Now I know how to make a leaf owner cranky. Take away free charging!

John, I appreciate your ability to find the funny, in a factroid. You & I, keepin' it on the light side.
:lol:

 

[caffeinekid]

The circumstances where a $100K QC station (and to a larger degree "green" energy in general) is sufficiently profitable are going to be rare as efficiency and profitability are diametrically opposed in the long term. Charging solutions are the last thing that should be managed by private enterprise at this point in time. Build it via open source, automate and sustain. The alternative is misery as companies struggle to find pricing models that support equipment that in its lifetime will not likely return the investment and dividends. The "free" ride should continue to be free indefinitely.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Just my 2 cents worth, I use the Aerovironment QC once or twice a month. My main QC is about 35 miles from my house, so I kind of depend on it if I have to travel out of town. It was nonfunctional for the whole month of January, thank goodness the L2 was working.
I sent AV an email asking what their commitment is to maintaining the QC'ers in working condition, no reply as yet. I wouldn't mind supporting the network, but that's assuming the network is maintained well.

sorry to hear about the repair issues there. In WA, AV seems to be very responsive with repairs. not sure I can remember any station taking more than 3-4 days at the most to get back up and running.

as far as the billing options. I think its WA/OR that set the billing and not AV. now apparently there is some sort of limitation that prevents any other billing other than a per session charge. not sure why we can't simply write up some software to provide better options but... I guess that subject is for another day

 

[klapauzius]

I've always defended Blink because I think $5 a charge is fair, and it's convenient: just swipe your card and start charging. But now everything between Blink stations is going to be $7.50 and _require a phone call_??? All they are trying to do is push people to the unlimited plan in the hopes that thousands of people will forget about it and leave it active for 6 years after they sell their car. What a disaster.

I think the combination of high prices AND difficulty for pay-per-use charging make this a non-starter.

The good thing is that probably most people will not have to use these chargers frequently since typical commuting distances can be handled without QC.

 

[BiosDude]

I rarely use the AV Green Highway chargers now & there are none within 10 miles of my commute path. Why on earth would I want to pay for "unlimited" charging? If I have to call now to initiate a charge at them even if I have a FOB, then I will just be taking the ICE on road trips from now on. What a waste. I've seen lots of stupid pay for charging models, but this one ranks number one! Well since this is tied to the government, why are we expecting it to make sense? :lol:

 

[gmikol]

Well since this is tied to the government, why are we expecting it to make sense? :lol:

While it's always fun to bash on government ineptitude, this situation is *not* tied to the government. The reason these charging fees are being implemented by AeroVironment, an independent, non-goverment company, is that the term of the government grants providing for construction and operation have largely run out, and it us up to the owner and operator of the stations and network (AeroVironment) to come up with a fee structure that is sustainable for them as a business, and fulfills the contractual obligations to the site hosts, re: shared revenue. AFAIK, the governments have no say in the fee structure. Any perceived ineptitude in rolling out this fee structure is entirely attributable to AV.

Whether the announced fee structure will do that in the long term is up to the "market", meaning us. If you don't like it, tell AV about it!

--G

 

[johnrhansen]

Months ago the station owner down in tumwater was complaining bitterly about not seeing one dime from av since the machine was installed. Im sure they have a lot to do with avs fee structure. Im sure they are wanting a nice fixed income for the land the machine is installed on.

 

[Turnover]

I talked to him as well. My feeling is he is getting business from us that stop by to charge -he acknowledges that-but he had latched onto the idea in the initial "sale" that he would get a cut of the charging fee and wasn't told there wasn't a charging fee. The ideal setup would include a venue like the Tacoma Market in Fife that offers more than burgers and coffee in a pleasant environment (warm, safe, well lighted).

 

[klapauzius]

I talked to him as well. My feeling is he is getting business from us that stop by to charge -he acknowledges that-but he had latched onto the idea in the initial "sale" that he would get a cut of the charging fee and wasn't told there wasn't a charging fee. The ideal setup would include a venue like the Tacoma Market in Fife that offers more than burgers and coffee in a pleasant environment (warm, safe, well lighted).

Yes, I stopped at Fife a couple of times and I always went in the store and bought stuff (which has quite a markup), to pass the time while charging.
With an ICE, I would NEVER have stopped there, let alone spent money in the store.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Could be worse:

http://transportevolved.com/2014/03/06/chargemaster-unveils-multiple-uk-tariffs-for-electric-car-charging-we-explain-all/?utm_content=buffer7a3e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Odd thing is, the entire west coast allows charging by the kWh.

 

[walterbays]

Could be worse:

http://transportevolved.com/2014/03/06/chargemaster-unveils-multiple-uk-tariffs-for-electric-car-charging-we-explain-all/?utm_content=buffer7a3e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Odd thing is, the entire west coast allows charging by the kWh.

True, things certainly could be worse.

The thing is, on a $/kWh basis I'd bet that by far the most expensive quick charging is the "free" charging paid to Tesla at purchase time. At first in my 60 day free trial of eVgo quick chargers I thought I might use them frequently and was concerned they would often be busy with other people getting free charges. It sounds good: a $10 quick charge for free. But the value to me, and I assume to most others, isn't the $10 session price but the $0.75 of avoided night-time electricity cost at home while I sleep. Fine to do if I'm going to that location anyway, but it's not worth a drive out of my way and 20 minutes of my time to save $0.75.

eVgo priced their service cleverly. On top of the monthly subscription price they add a small fee per minute of charging that equates to about the same $/kWh as charging at home in the top daytime rate tier. So there's no money to be saved by charging when you don't need it, or when it's not more convenient for you.

 

[Graffi]

+1 to that.

Even charging at the Dealer L3 is not worth my time to get a free charge unless I actually need the juice to get me back home and the dealer is near my route.

 

[Randy]

And what I factor into the equation when driving my LEAF is that it doesn't go as far on a charge anymore. So the DC Fast Charge stations help me make trips that I ordinarily wouldn't be able to make any more...And I don't have to worry about how many bars I have left.

My son and I recently went to Blaze Pizza at the Carlsbad Outlet Mall and did a 30 minute DC FC while we ate. The timing was perfect, when we got done eating, the car was done charging and we made it home with a few bars left. I don't believe I would have made it from home at 100% charge in the LEAF from Tierrasanta up to Carlsbad and back on just one charge at freeway speeds...

So, for me, price isn't the main issue, but opening up the range of the car is more valuable...

 

[ERG4ALL]

It occurs to me that most of the away-from-home charging would be during prime time utility rates (at least in AZ). In winter it is $.19/kWh and in summer $.26/kWh. Thus, $20/mo. comes out to about 77 kWh in summer and 105 kWh in winter. Thus, the question becomes will you charge more than that over a month's time and then factor in the convenience and range extension to see if it is worth it to you or not.

 

[Nubo]

I'm not offended or angry. Just confused. He explicitly quoted me and made a sarcastic response that (at least to me) wasn't particularly funny. I wanted to understand why since it didn't seem warranted. If it's just a joke that's fine, but if something else was implied I'd like to know what it is.

I reckon he's opposed to government subsidies in general and Obama in particular.

 

[johnrhansen]

If I ran a store, I'd put one of those machines outside with a credit car reader.. charge $5 -10 bucks to charge, then spit out a coupon for more than that for my store for say a purchase over 30 dollars. While I'm at it, contract with other stores to print some coupons for them too. You'd end up making more money. People are standing around waiting for the car to charge anyway, might as well have them inside your store spending money while they wait. Put in a lower power quick charger so people have to wait around 30 minutes or so.