Ugh, caught myself changing behavior over heat issue

[Cheezmo]

I live in Texas, I am on a 3 year lease, and I swore I wasn't going to fret over the heat issue. I QC when I want, charge to 100% when needed, etc. I always plug in when I get home, to keep it at 80% for whatever else may come that day.

But recently I've caught myself making adjustments...

When charging both the Volt and the Leaf, I put the Leaf on the 120V charger to be kinder to the battery.

Today I pulled into the garage with 7 bars of battery temp. Normally I would just plug it right in. But, it is 100 outside, so I decided to wait and charge it later when it cools down to 6.

I guess the paranoia is creeping in. Not real happy about it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

can you plug in later and not create a "situation?"

if so, i dont understand how much of a hassle it can be to just "plug it in later"

i dont have a problem with plugging in later (especially since i have my Son do it most of the time...he enjoys it)

if you have not followed other posts here you will find that 7TB is usually an indication that you are degrading your battery faster due to heat and plugging it in right away to add to that heat is not recommended

 

[thankyouOB]

you are just taking precautions and adjusting to conditions; no reason to fret.

i am doing that too. data and information from others is useful.
try the end timer. i started using it last week. you can plug in when you get home, and the car does the work of charging, for departure time.
changing the settings is really no big deal.

Nissan should let us know if this is as useful as the EEs around here think it is.

 

[Stoaty]

But recently I've caught myself making adjustments...

Today I pulled into the garage with 7 bars of battery temp. Normally I would just plug it right in. But, it is 100 outside, so I decided to wait and charge it later when it cools down to 6.

I guess the paranoia is creeping in. Not real happy about it.

I can do you one better (and I don't live in a place that is likely to have a lot of temperature problems). Recently I started doing "micro cycling" of the battery on the weekend when I don't put a lot of miles on the Leaf (as long as I have 5 temperature bars). I keep the battery at around 35% SOC (per Gid meter) and charge it early AM for 30 minutes to bring it up to 44%, giving me about 9 miles of driving. If it gets back down to around 35%, I put another 20-30 minutes of charge in to bring it up to 41% to 44%. Since I don't tend to do much driving on the weekend (Friday-Sunday for me ), this is easy to do and is not cumbersome for me (although it likely sounds that way to others). Just experimenting for now, but I figure keeping the SOC in the low 30's most of the time is a good conservative plan--as long as it doesn't get in the way of my driving.

 

[yoyofella]

But recently I've caught myself making adjustments...

Today I pulled into the garage with 7 bars of battery temp. Normally I would just plug it right in. But, it is 100 outside, so I decided to wait and charge it later when it cools down to 6.

I guess the paranoia is creeping in. Not real happy about it.

I can do you one better (and I don't live in a place that is likely to have a lot of temperature problems). Recently I started doing "micro cycling" of the battery on the weekend when I don't put a lot of miles on the Leaf (as long as I have 5 temperature bars). I keep the battery at around 35% SOC (per Gid meter) and charge it early AM for 30 minutes to bring it up to 44%, giving me about 9 miles of driving. If it gets back down to around 35%, I put another 20-30 minutes of charge in to bring it up to 41% to 44%. Since I don't tend to do much driving on the weekend (Friday-Sunday for me ), this is easy to do and is not cumbersome for me (although it likely sounds that way to others). Just experimenting for now, but I figure keeping the SOC in the low 30's most of the time is a good conservative plan--as long as it doesn't get in the way of my driving.

When I go on longer business trips (more than a week), I usually charge to 80% for storage. I think on my upcoming trips I'll change my strategy: I'll park the car in the garage at whatever SOC it's left with (probably close to 30%), but keep the car plugged in. with a charge timer that only lets the car charge for 1 hour per day. I use exclusively L1 charging so I figure 1 hour per day is not going to fill up the battery much.

 

[Cheezmo]

The issue is that I hate having to do anything special, it diminishes the value of the car to me. A big reason that I finally got an EV, is that it looked like one that I wouldn't have to jump through any hoops to use.

Yes, I can change how I do things, but I don't want to. Most people won't period, which is one of the reasons why EV adoption is slow.

Now there are two things I didn't know about the Leaf that make it less desirable than the day I bought it. 1) reduced range at my typical highway speeds (my fault, could have researched that better). 2) Watching the temperature like a hawk and having to be careful when and how much to charge.

Now that I've caught myself on 2, I'm going to stop it, I didn't get the car to be bothered with stuff like that. In fact, I'm going down to plug it in right now. As I said it is a lease, and we have a Volt we can start using more if the Leaf's range becomes a problem.

All that said, I still love it. But the more it tells me it wants to be babied, the less I will.

can you plug in later and not create a "situation?"

if so, i dont understand how much of a hassle it can be to just "plug it in later"

i dont have a problem with plugging in later (especially since i have my Son do it most of the time...he enjoys it)

if you have not followed other posts here you will find that 7TB is usually an indication that you are degrading your battery faster due to heat and plugging it in right away to add to that heat is not recommended

 

[Zythryn]

The issue is that I hate having to do anything special, it diminishes the value of the car to me. A big reason that I finally got an EV, is that it looked like one that I wouldn't have to jump through any hoops to use.

Every piece of machinery has requirements for care. Lack of car leads to it not working properly.
If you own an ICE based vehicle, you put oil in it, if you don't it is bad (eventually catastrophically so) for the engine.
If you own a gun, you either clean it after using it, or it stands a chance at not working as well in the future.

EVs are not magical. They are tools, and if you don't take care of your tools they won't perform as well as they could.

Even with passive cooling like the Leaf uses, it still has a lot less maintainence than ICE vehicles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Cheesmo? is it really that big a deal? do you really think we can go on as we have? "we" might be able to get away with it (although i no longer think i am old enough to say that) but there is no way our children will have anything if we dont make some big time adjustments to our lifestyle

 

[adric22]

The only two changes I've made as a result of the heat issue is that I've started charging to 80% instead of 100%. I really don't need the 100% range so there is no real excuse. The other thing I've done is I've left the garage open until I'm ready to go to bed so that it can have some ventilation in there while it is charging.

 

[scottf200]

When I go on longer business trips (more than a week), I usually charge to 80% for storage. I think on my upcoming trips I'll change my strategy: I'll park the car in the garage at whatever SOC it's left with (probably close to 30%), but keep the car plugged in. with a charge timer that only lets the car charge for 1 hour per day. I use exclusively L1 charging so I figure 1 hour per day is not going to fill up the battery much.

That was the method I suggested here related to the 12v:
Scheduling method 2 keep ur 12v battery charged while vaca
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8970" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Stoaty]

When I go on longer business trips (more than a week), I usually charge to 80% for storage. I think on my upcoming trips I'll change my strategy: I'll park the car in the garage at whatever SOC it's left with (probably close to 30%), but keep the car plugged in. with a charge timer that only lets the car charge for 1 hour per day. I use exclusively L1 charging so I figure 1 hour per day is not going to fill up the battery much.

One hour per day on L1 will add about 5% per day to the SOC. So it will take about 10 days to reach 80%. Unless it is going to be close to 2 weeks, why not just leave the Leaf unplugged (unless you need to be able to use it immediately when arriving home). Another alternative would be to charge at 30 minutes per day while you are gone.

 

[Stanton]

When I go on longer business trips (more than a week), I usually charge to 80% for storage. I think on my upcoming trips I'll change my strategy: I'll park the car in the garage at whatever SOC it's left with (probably close to 30%), but keep the car plugged in. with a charge timer that only lets the car charge for 1 hour per day. I use exclusively L1 charging so I figure 1 hour per day is not going to fill up the battery much.

That was the method I suggested here related to the 12v:
Scheduling method 2 keep ur 12v battery charged while on vacation
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8970" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unless I'm missing something here, I think the "charging 1 hour per day" routine was DIS-proved since the Leaf's main battery pack automatically charges the 12V battery (when NOT connected to EVSE) every 5 days...which is another reason I do NOT leave my Leaf plugged in while I'm gone (the other being you just don't know what an unattended power surge/interruption will do).

 

[mkjayakumar]

I had the same understanding as Stanton.

When I will be away for two weeks sometime in the near future, I am planning to keep the SoC at 50% and leave it unplugged.

 

[planet4ever]

Back to Steve's original post:

When charging both the Volt and the Leaf, I put the Leaf on the 120V charger to be kinder to the battery.
Today I pulled into the garage with 7 bars of battery temp. Normally I would just plug it right in. But, it is 100 outside, so I decided to wait and charge it later when it cools down to 6.

If you want to be nice to the battery, why not set an 80% end-only timer and forget your worries? Plug it in when you get home, and let the car worry about when it needs to start charging. As for 120v being kinder than 240v, I'm not sure I see why. Even 240v is a very slow charge (less than 0.15C). And with 120v charging you have to start earlier to get it up to 80% by morning, so the battery doesn't get as long to cool down first, and if you use an end timer the average charge level is higher.

Ray

 

[KJD]

Back to Steve's original post:

When charging both the Volt and the Leaf, I put the Leaf on the 120V charger to be kinder to the battery.
Today I pulled into the garage with 7 bars of battery temp. Normally I would just plug it right in. But, it is 100 outside, so I decided to wait and charge it later when it cools down to 6.

If you want to be nice to the battery, why not set an 80% end-only timer and forget your worries? Plug it in when you get home, and let the car worry about when it needs to start charging. As for 120v being kinder than 240v, I'm not sure I see why. Even 240v is a very slow charge (less than 0.15C). And with 120v charging you have to start earlier to get it up to 80% by morning, so the battery doesn't get as long to cool down first, and if you use an end timer the average charge level is higher.
Ray

Excellent summary Ray, I could not have said it better myself.

 

[gbarry42]

Unless I'm missing something here, I think the "charging 1 hour per day" routine was DIS-proved since the Leaf's main battery pack automatically charges the 12V battery (when NOT connected to EVSE) every 5 days

I don't believe the routine was "disproved". It may well be unnecessary, particularly in the circumstances you cite, but it is still valid. Say you roll into the airport with 20% charge remaining, and you'd like it to be at 80% or 100% when you return. That's going to require being plugged into an EVSE.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

if you are going to be gone for more than 3 or 4 weeks, you might want to plug it in and set it to charge a half hour every 3 days or so.

now, if parking publicly you must set it to charge at least every 2-3 days as its been determined that the 12 volt battery drain will be higher when plugged in and needs to be boosted at least that often. reports here state about 5-6 days is the capacity of the battery so every other day should be ok. if you need a full charge when you get off the plane, that is easy. you can remotely start a charge from your phone

considering parking costs, i personally cant imagine anyone wanting to park their car in a public place for a month. its simply not worth the risk. there should be no issues with parking your car at home with a 50% SOC for a month without being plugged in. if you think about it. its nearly a month from the time a LEAF leaves the factory in Japan until it hits the dealership and there is no plug on the route

 

[Pipcecil]

To me charging end timers are extremely impractical for the general public for a standard use vehicle. After I get home from work and the charge is low about 50% of the time I will have to go somewhere before I go to sleep and if I do, that usually invovles at least a 3-4 bar round trip, impossible if my car has not been charging since I got home. To me, a family with kids in the suburbs would never be able to take advantage of it. I don't have kids now, and I cannot even possibly imagine doing an end timer when I finally do have kids around.

That said, we SHOULD NOT have to delay charging of the vehicle for proper use. To me, its arguing that you can't fill up your ICE car until the morning and if you need to go out again, tough luck. That is NOT the way to get mass adaption. "Filling up" your vehicle when its low on fuel is part of car ownership, denying that causes numerous problems that people will not want to deal with. Besides, I do not want range anxiety when driving to a hospital.

 

[yoyofella]

Unless I'm missing something here, I think the "charging 1 hour per day" routine was DIS-proved since the Leaf's main battery pack automatically charges the 12V battery (when NOT connected to EVSE) every 5 days

I don't believe the routine was "disproved". It may well be unnecessary, particularly in the circumstances you cite, but it is still valid. Say you roll into the airport with 20% charge remaining, and you'd like it to be at 80% or 100% when you return. That's going to require being plugged into an EVSE.

Thanks for all the tips. My main issue is that the Garage that I house my Leaf is about 0.8miles away, so it's not that trivial for me to walk over just to plug the car in. I'd like to keep the EVSE plugged in so I can start the charging remotely the day before I arrive so I can have a fully charged car. I'm hoping that the 0.5~1hr daily charge can prevent the 12V from draining while keeping traction battery only partially charged to prevent damage.

Even though I live in San Fran, I'm still a bit worried about the battery after hearing all the bad news coming out of AZ.

 

[shrink]

To me charging end timers are extremely impractical for the general public for a standard use vehicle. After I get home from work and the charge is low about 50% of the time I will have to go somewhere before I go to sleep and if I do, that usually invovles at least a 3-4 bar round trip, impossible if my car has not been charging since I got home. To me, a family with kids in the suburbs would never be able to take advantage of it. I don't have kids now, and I cannot even possibly imagine doing an end timer when I finally do have kids around.

That said, we SHOULD NOT have to delay charging of the vehicle for proper use. To me, its arguing that you can't fill up your ICE car until the morning and if you need to go out again, tough luck. That is NOT the way to get mass adaption. "Filling up" your vehicle when its low on fuel is part of car ownership, denying that causes numerous problems that people will not want to deal with. Besides, I do not want range anxiety when driving to a hospital.

I wholeheartedly agree. A TMS would have solved all these concerns and guesswork. Plug it in when you get home. If the battery is too hot, the TMS will cool it and you don't have to delay charging. We have a Volt and LEAF in the garage and I can hear the Volt TMS running quite a bit in the evenings. I do have the LEAF on an end timer now for an early morning charge completion, and we have the luxury of having the two cars, but as you mentioned, it is unfortunate the LEAF seems to require such precautions.

I'm sure it will get better in later revisions. In fact, it must.