Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[dsh]

 

[Stoaty]

JPV, I see you're in Orange County. Which dealer will you be taking your LEAF to? I'm currently only 2 bars down, but my current stats is [26,600 mi, 38 mos., Ahr=48.87, Gids=192-205 100% chrg, health=54.04%]. I think I'm about to lose my third bar. So I'm prob going to hit the 4th bar next summer.

Looks like ours are similar in climate area and calendar time, but the extra miles you put on caused more loss.

I have 31,400 miles, 38 months, Ahr=53.75. My Leaf spends 40 hours a week in the hot San Fernando Valley in direct sunlight. Does anyone have any thoughts about the source of variation in capacity loss? Climate is similar or worse, yet my Leaf is still (slightly) ahead of the Battery Aging Model, while some appear to be way behind it.

 

[TomT]

I sometimes think simple luck of the draw has something to do with it...

Does anyone have any thoughts about the source of variation in capacity loss? Climate is similar or worse, yet my Leaf is still (slightly) ahead of the Battery Aging Model, while some appear to be way behind it.

 

[abasile]

I have 31,400 miles, 38 months, Ahr=53.75. My Leaf spends 40 hours a week in the hot San Fernando Valley in direct sunlight. Does anyone have any thoughts about the source of variation in capacity loss? Climate is similar or worse, yet my Leaf is still (slightly) ahead of the Battery Aging Model, while some appear to be way behind it.

Two theories:
1. If I understand correctly, your overnight parking in West LA is in a garage that is open to outside air. Your LEAF might benefit from significantly more cooling at night. Keeping the car in a fully enclosed garage at night would, I expect, substantially raise the battery's average temperature. And some garages are much warmer than others.
2. You have a reputation for being an exceptionally efficient, gentle driver. Perhaps the model does not weight this as heavily as it could. Certainly, at low power and regen levels, there's far less battery heating.

 

[Stoaty]

Two theories:
1. If I understand correctly, your overnight parking in West LA is in a garage that is open to outside air. Your LEAF might benefit from significantly more cooling at night. Keeping the car in a fully enclosed garage at night would, I expect, substantially raise the battery's average temperature. And some garages are much warmer than others.
2. You have a reputation for being an exceptionally efficient, gentle driver. Perhaps the model does not weight this as heavily as it could. Certainly, at low power and regen levels, there's far less battery heating.

Two good thoughts.

1) While my underground parking garage probably doesn't get as hot as an enclosed garage, it also doesn't get as cool as outside air. I often leave in the morning and find the ambient temperature is 5-7 degrees F. cooler than the garage.

2) I thought about less battery heating from my driving style, although I don't think it makes much difference at the level of the temperature sensors. Internal battery temperature may be significantly higher than the temperature sensors indicate.

3) My other thought is that I have consistently kept the SOC as low as reasonably possible. My Leaf has spent most of its life with SOC between 30-60%. Any time I charge higher than that, I plan to depart within an hours or so of reaching the higher SOC (either 80% or 100%).

 

[TimLee]

3) My other thought is that I have consistently kept the SOC as low as reasonably possible. My Leaf has spent most of its life with SOC between 30-60%. Any time I charge higher than that, I plan to depart within an hours or so of reaching the higher SOC (either 80% or 100%).

Probably the most significant factor that isn't in the model.
My lifetime average and many people's is more in the 65% to 80% range.

 

[JPWhite]

JPV, I see you're in Orange County. Which dealer will you be taking your LEAF to? I'm currently only 2 bars down, but my current stats is [26,600 mi, 38 mos., Ahr=48.87, Gids=192-205 100% chrg, health=54.04%]. I think I'm about to lose my third bar. So I'm prob going to hit the 4th bar next summer.

Looks like ours are similar in climate area and calendar time, but the extra miles you put on caused more loss.

I have 31,400 miles, 38 months, Ahr=53.75. My Leaf spends 40 hours a week in the hot San Fernando Valley in direct sunlight. Does anyone have any thoughts about the source of variation in capacity loss? Climate is similar or worse, yet my Leaf is still (slightly) ahead of the Battery Aging Model, while some appear to be way behind it.

My guess is that the next significant factor after ambient heat is driving style. I don't hang around typically and achieve 4.3 Miles/kWh.

I'm at 3 years, 51,150 miles, 51.66 Ah. So I'm a little worse off than the model predicts for Nashville.

 

[Stoaty]

3) My other thought is that I have consistently kept the SOC as low as reasonably possible. My Leaf has spent most of its life with SOC between 30-60%. Any time I charge higher than that, I plan to depart within an hours or so of reaching the higher SOC (either 80% or 100%).

Probably the most significant factor that isn't in the model.
My lifetime average and many people's is more in the 65% to 80% range.

Yes, probably the most significant factor missing. I didn't have that number available, and wouldn't have had any theoretical basis on how to include it if I did have it.

 

[Deleted member 770]

Not to get too far ON topic, but...

Does anybody know of someone who has ordered a replacement battery yet? I know there are a number of folks with over 60K miles at less than 5 years (I'll probably hit 60K sometime around early February), so they are officially out of the warranty period. I really hate that my vehicle is getting to the point of being useful only for the work commute. Everything that Nissan said in 2010 and 2011 (when I ordered and took delivery) was that the battery should last 7-8 years before losing 30% of its capacity. I'm not even in a "hot climate" and I'm at that point after only 3-1/4 years.

Nissan should really step up to the plate and make this a prorated cost out to the original 8 years that they were quoting. If I'm down to 70% after 4 years, I should be able to pay 50% of the then-current replacement to trade in my battery for a new one. It wouldn't cost Nissan much, since as they claim, there should be very few takers. But those of us who NEED that the extra 25 miles should be able to regain them, for a reasonable price.

Are you listening, Mr. Brockman?

 

[Stoaty]

Not to get too far ON topic, but...

Everything that Nissan said in 2010 and 2011 (when I ordered and took delivery) was that the battery should last 7-8 years before losing 30% of its capacity. I'm not even in a "hot climate" and I'm at that point after only 3-1/4 years.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but if you lost 30% capacity and are under 60,000 miles you qualify for a replacement battery under warranty.

 

[keydiver]

I thought 4 bar loss = 33.75% ? He's not quite there yet.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Can anyone who has gotten a replacement tell if they used the extra bracket thing? Is that an indication of whether a lizard battery was installed?

 

[TomT]

Not necessarily as the new form factor battery was being used in the Leaf prior to the Lizard battery...

Can anyone who has gotten a replacement tell if they used the extra bracket thing? Is that an indication of whether a lizard battery was installed?

 

[Deleted member 770]

Not to get too far ON topic, but...
Everything that Nissan said in 2010 and 2011 (when I ordered and took delivery) was that the battery should last 7-8 years before losing 30% of its capacity. I'm not even in a "hot climate" and I'm at that point after only 3-1/4 years.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but if you lost 30% capacity and are under 60,000 miles you qualify for a replacement battery under warranty.

Per the dash bars, I'm not even close (10 bars still showing), but in terms of realistic range, I'm down to < 60 miles, more like 55 or so, when I was able to get 80 comfortably 2 years ago.

But to the point of the message - has anyone ordered a replacement battery under the new pricing yet?

 

[Pipcecil]

Can anyone who has gotten a replacement tell if they used the extra bracket thing? Is that an indication of whether a lizard battery was installed?

When mine was replaced at the beginning of July after the lizard battery announcement, my Nissan Rep confirmed I am getting a standard battery (he even went as far to say that the lizard batteries were only for purchased replacements at that time, which mean they could be warranty replacements at a later date). Worksheet for work done did not have a bracket as line item, just the battery and labor to install and do software. But I don't know about batteries installed after mine.

 

[JPVLeaf]

JPVLeaf: What is the status of your battery replacement? EV Customer Service is working to confirm exactly where my battery will be shipped from but says maybe 2 weeks before delivered to the dealer. Any update on your experience or what you have been told?

I visited the dealer last week to get info about the replacement battery and process. I wanted some assurance that the replacement battery would be the new 'hot lizzard' one. If there was any chance that it wouldn't, then I would wait. It was a very informative, yet uninformative, chat. There was a lot of shoulder shrugging, yet they were being more transparent than expected. Kind of a clear-as-mud experience. Here's some of what I learned.

- According to the service reps., this is considered a 'special program'. As such, they are there to perform the battery check. Once confirmed, they notify Nissan and then initiale an order for the replacement. Once it arrives, they install the battery. Whatever Nissan sends them, they install. They don't order by part nos., which I presumed might be different between old/new batteries. This very well might be true, but the service guys couldn't confirm because they don't order, per se. The whole thing is a 'special program' and isn't like your typical order by part no. ###-###.
- Their 2nd battery replacement is still in progress. The battery was ordered on 8/1 and had yet to arrive. I asked if they could email me a photo of the labels when it arrived, thereby perhaps me being able to infer if it was old/new based on part no. and/or manufacture location. However, based on previous posts, the mfg location may not give anything away.
- At this point, I'm willing to wait before requesting the replacement since I am still under 60k, and I thankfully have workplace charging (can't do my RT commute without it). As far as assurance that any newly shipped batteries will be the 'new' batteries, we supposedly have Brian Brockman's 'word' as per the opening post. However, given history with other battery claims, I'm not 100% comforted by that. Though, I suspect that will change given time and more info.
- Their 1st batt. replacement was about 1.5 mos ago. It took 3-4 wks for the battery to arrive. Nissan had sent out an engineer for oversight and to gather data. Don't know if they will be doing this for the 2nd replacement.

- Per customer service rep., the warranty on the replaceement battery is for the duration of the original 5-yr/60k mi. warranty period. I haven't seen this in writing. I've seen/heard this contradicted elsewhere (i.e., that it gets is own 5 yr/60k mi. warranty).

 

[johnrhansen]

You know, if my battery was degraded to the point where It qualified for replacement, I would limp the car along until the very last minute. More chance of getting a lizard battery, and makes the net life of the new battery longer, since the replacement battery would be newer than had it been changed right after the loss of the 4th bar.

 

[TickTock]

You know, if my battery was degraded to the point where It qualified for replacement, I would limp the car along until the very last minute. More chance of getting a lizard battery, and makes the net life of the new battery longer, since the replacement battery would be newer than had it been changed right after the loss of the 4th bar.

+1

 

[Valdemar]

The longer you wait the higher the chances are you'll be getting a refurbished pack and not a new one. It may be a while before refurb packs are used for warranty replacements, but it will start happening at some point.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Yes. Agreed for as long as you can tolerate 'limping'.
It's a trade off with usability. At some point, limpage prevents practical usage of the carpool lane for some commuters.

I currently have about 6k miles of cushion. Should be enough time to see where things are.