Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[Stanton]

For myself with two bar loss at 43 months, will take a lot of usage in only 17 months.
Battery probably has 325 full cycles on it now.
Probably require 400 cycles in 17 months.
Quite a challenge / nuisance to do that.
And about $650 for the charging electricity :shock:

Remember that this is not a LINEAR function: the first bar takes much longer (represents a bigger percentage) than any other bar. You're only a few months ahead of me, and I know I'm on the cusp of losing my third bar based on AHr readings (I expect it to drop as soon as Spring hits). So, I wouldn't assume that won't make it with one caveat: you will have one LESS summer than I do before warranty expiration.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My first post- I am at 59980 miles, 3 bars down, and have to replace battery since range has degraded far more than the bars would indicate (now about 40-50% range).
I told dealer service dept I wanted to buy a replacement, which is when the surprises began. Any feedback welcome:
1) told me Nissan might not agree to sell me one- at least until I lost 4th bar.
2) showed me a document that says replacement battery may not bring things back to 12 bars- could be as low as 9 (though they would replace if new pack fell below 9).
3) document also says that replacement battery doesn't ensure range restoration.

I commute 28 mile mostly highway driving 65- and home is 1400 ft above work. When new I could get to work and back no trickle charge- at ~20K had to trickle at work
- now I make it to work OK and have to trickle all day then fast charge simply to get home- drive on mostly surface streets without climate controls- and end up with 3 bars final.

What are my realistic options? Sell at a loss and buy something else? Try to get a facilitated trade in? Limp around for a year (costs me 30-60 minutes a day and $$) until 2016 model available and hope for a sympathetic deal? Argue that a new battery (here in San Diego costs ~$7K to replace) should restore original capacity? Are they selling recycle batts for the price? Under the present fact pattern, they could take my battery out, change the label and put it back in and it would meet their criteria for a successful replacement!

Dealer is trying to help- I am first person to hit 60K in need of replacement and they were as surprised as I was to see the terms. Some of what I discuss here was on a sheet dated Nov 26, 2014.

I am a fairly long-range user and was sorta prepared to eat the replacement cost early- but to find out I would have to do this with no guarantee it would significantly improve the usability of the vehicle is beyond imagination. Always thought that I could replace every 50-60K and run the thing to 250K like most cars I have owned. This is a shock! Loved the car to this point...

Thanks for any help/guidance!

I would call Nissan Corporate about a battery or another dealer. I am surprised that trickle charging all day is not enough to get you home. how short are you? are you using a battery monitor? I am guessing your commute is 28 miles one way and you should have plenty when you get to work especially with that elevation drop so thinking you have to be near full leaving work. I know 1400 feet really blows out the electrons but still surprising

 

[RegGuheert]

My concern about parking the car at a mileage just below 60K is that the BMS might not update its battery capacity estimate (it's always an estimate, not an exact value) unless the car is being used. Has anyone observed changes (drops) in the AHR reading for a car that is not being driven?

Perhaps one workaround, if at only a hair below 60K miles, could be to turn on the car, leave it parked, and run the heater with the temperature set to 90 degrees for a few hours. It seems likely that discharging the battery in this manner could force the BMS to recalibrate its battery capacity estimate.

+1

I think this is what I would do, particularly if it is very close to losing its fourth bar. OTOH, if you live farther than 20 miles from the dealer, then this is not an option.

 

[Valdemar]

I've had warranty repairs done several hundred miles over the limit, so there is some leniency in how they read the odometer. I wouldn't bet on it but likely they will still replace the pack if slightly over 60k.

 

[DaveEV]

I've had warranty repairs done several hundred miles over the limit, so there is some leniency in how they read the odometer. I wouldn't bet on it but likely they will still replace the pack if slightly over 60k.

I would certainly raise a big stink if they said no.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I've had warranty repairs done several hundred miles over the limit, so there is some leniency in how they read the odometer. I wouldn't bet on it but likely they will still replace the pack if slightly over 60k.

keep in mind the warranty covers mileage YOU drove. so if you took delivery with 100 miles on the odometer, you warranty runs to 60,100 or 60,000 miles after you take delivery

 

[RegGuheert]

keep in mind the warranty covers mileage YOU drove. so if you took delivery with 100 miles on the odometer, you warranty runs to 60,100 or 60,000 miles after you take delivery

Do you have anything in writing that tells you we get those extra miles? I only see "within the first 5 years and 60,000 miles, whichever comes first" in the warranty agreement that Nissan sent us, with no further explanation.

I'm quite sure I don't get either the 2011 miles OR the 6+ months that were on the demo vehicle that I purchased as new.

 

[RegGuheert]

My concern about parking the car at a mileage just below 60K is that the BMS might not update its battery capacity estimate (it's always an estimate, not an exact value) unless the car is being used. Has anyone observed changes (drops) in the AHR reading for a car that is not being driven?

Perhaps one workaround, if at only a hair below 60K miles, could be to turn on the car, leave it parked, and run the heater with the temperature set to 90 degrees for a few hours. It seems likely that discharging the battery in this manner could force the BMS to recalibrate its battery capacity estimate.

+1

I think this is what I would do, particularly if it is very close to losing its fourth bar. OTOH, if you live farther than 20 miles from the dealer, then this is not an option.

One other thought here: If you haven't had the P3227 reprogramming done yet, then it will likely be very difficult to claim the warranty since it would likely take more than six months to get back past the loss of four bars. (Though I'm not sure how Nissan would handle this.)

 

[Valdemar]

I've had warranty repairs done several hundred miles over the limit, so there is some leniency in how they read the odometer. I wouldn't bet on it but likely they will still replace the pack if slightly over 60k.

keep in mind the warranty covers mileage YOU drove. so if you took delivery with 100 miles on the odometer, you warranty runs to 60,100 or 60,000 miles after you take delivery

While that is true for lease mileage calculation I don't think this is how car warranties work. If true one could get a demo car with 5000 miles on it and the warranty would last until 65000, highly doubtful...

 

[dhanson865]

I've had warranty repairs done several hundred miles over the limit, so there is some leniency in how they read the odometer. I wouldn't bet on it but likely they will still replace the pack if slightly over 60k.

keep in mind the warranty covers mileage YOU drove. so if you took delivery with 100 miles on the odometer, you warranty runs to 60,100 or 60,000 miles after you take delivery

While that is true for lease mileage calculation I don't think this is how car warranties work. If true one could get a demo car with 5000 miles on it and the warranty would last until 65000, highly doubtful...

standard warranty language. if you are the original owner and pay attention you'll notice the mileage is on the paperwork when you buy a new car. I had them adjust it on mine when I bought a Saturn around 2001 specifically to make sure the warranty period reflected the miles after the car was sold to me. Originally they put the mileage it had when it got to their lot, I made them adjust it to the mileage after my test drive.

They generally use a statement like "Effective from the date the vehicle is delivered to the first retail buyer, or otherwise put into service (in-service date), whichever is earlier."

You'll notice it doesn't say mileage or mention the odometer in any way.

If you have the initial sales documentation and the odometer has more than a couple of miles on it I'd definitely use that in any warranty claim near the cutoff. Even if they aren't legally required to give you coverage the person that makes the final decision at corporate will have the leeway to override written policy and the odometer reading at time of initial purchase could be all you need to sway their opinion of the case in your favor.

Consider these two cases:

Buyer 1 bought a new car with 4 miles on it and tries to get a warranty repair at 60,300 miles.

Buyer 2 bought a new car with 278 miles on it and tries to get a warranty repair at 60,300 miles

they might both be out of warranty but Buyer 2 has a better case. A "nice" corporation might give both of them the warranty replacement at no cost. A "harsh/mean" corporation might give neither one a replacement or discount of any kind. In between that you might get corporation C that decides to give Buyer 2 the warranty replacement for free and charge Buyer 1 half price for the warranty. Or you might get Corporation D that decides to give Buyer 2 the half price and tells Buyer 1 they have to pay full price.

Plenty of ways it can go down but having the mileage at time of initial sale can help you.

 

[Valdemar]

I checked the warranty booklet and yes it states is from the date of the delivery to the first owner. Good to know. In my case the car had 5 miles on the odometer, so I don't really gain anything by this.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

keep in mind the warranty covers mileage YOU drove. so if you took delivery with 100 miles on the odometer, you warranty runs to 60,100 or 60,000 miles after you take delivery

Do you have anything in writing that tells you we get those extra miles? I only see "within the first 5 years and 60,000 miles, whichever comes first" in the warranty agreement that Nissan sent us, with no further explanation.

I'm quite sure I don't get either the 2011 miles OR the 6+ months that were on the demo vehicle that I purchased as new.

does not apply to used cars and don't know how it applies in your situation since you are technically first owner... I would contact dealer for details.

 

[RegGuheert]

does not apply to used cars and don't know how it applies in your situation since you are technically first owner... I would contact dealer for details.

You wouldn't believe the conversations I have had with both the dealer and Nissan about this topic. The bottom line is that I will never know when my warranty started until I try to make a claim past the period covered from the date it first entered service (that date has been changed multiple times and often has different values in Nissan's database depending on whether the dealer or corporate is reading it). It has been an unbelievable mess.

 

[Wennfred]

Thanks for the reply- I kinda figured I am early in the game from the posts. They have only replaced 2-3 batteries
and they were early fails. I have 20 miles to go before 60,000 so letting it sit is a good possibility I hadn't thought of-
would love to get info on how to check status (I have iPhone)...?
Will talk with Nissan tomorrow and the dealer and post what I hear back.

Will check back in morning- thanks so much!

Contact Nissan at 1-877-NO-GAS-EV (877-664-2738) to start a claim.

Who was the dealer you spoke with in San Diego? Mossy Nissan in Poway has changed out 4 battery packs and seems to have more knowledge about this.

But you should be able to get a new battery pack with out the hassle, this needs to be reported to Nissan at that number.

I will send you a PM so that we can meet and we can check your battery stats with my LeafDD.

Fred

 

[RegGuheert]

Posted today:

Lost my Fourth bar around: 1/6/2015.
Approximate Mileage was around: 61,150

I took my car to the dealership, shortly after I noticed the 4th bar was gone. The dealership refuses to accept any responsibility and Nissan Corporate refuses to honor the warranty, since I brought the car into the dealership after 60,000 miles.

 

[JPWhite]

Posted today:

Lost my Fourth bar around: 1/6/2015.
Approximate Mileage was around: 61,150

I took my car to the dealership, shortly after I noticed the 4th bar was gone. The dealership refuses to accept any responsibility and Nissan Corporate refuses to honor the warranty, since I brought the car into the dealership after 60,000 miles.

That's a tragedy of circumstances.

This speaks volumes for a pro-rated warranty. The 'percieved loss' when you exceed the warranty terms would be a lot less.

 

[mwalsh]

That's a tragedy of circumstances.

And of course we expect way, way more of this, particularly from owners in warmer areas of CA. Maybe more than a few even closer to the warranty expiration in time and/or mileage too.

 

[Valdemar]

Time for a new class-action lawsuit?

 

[Stoaty]

Lost my Fourth bar around: 1/6/2015.
Approximate Mileage was around: 61,150

I took my car to the dealership, shortly after I noticed the 4th bar was gone. The dealership refuses to accept any responsibility and Nissan Corporate refuses to honor the warranty, since I brought the car into the dealership after 60,000 miles.

The flood begins... of those just out of warranty who were screwed by the settlement with Nissan.

 

[Valdemar]

Lost my Fourth bar around: 1/6/2015.
Approximate Mileage was around: 61,150

I took my car to the dealership, shortly after I noticed the 4th bar was gone. The dealership refuses to accept any responsibility and Nissan Corporate refuses to honor the warranty, since I brought the car into the dealership after 60,000 miles.

The flood begins... of those just out of warranty who were screwed by the settlement with Nissan.

Are they screwed in any way more than they already were when they bought the car w/o any cap. warranty, perhaps not counting the emotional element?