Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[fotajoye]

I find it absolutely amazing how Nissan treats its customers; they have 450,000 plus EVs on the road , are 10 years into producing EVs and they still have undefined battery policies and prices...that's really poor management.

 

[GaleHawkins]

I find it absolutely amazing how Nissan treats its customers; they have 450,000 plus EVs on the road , are 10 years into producing EVs and they still have undefined battery policies and prices...that's really poor management.

After proving my OEM battery pack in our 2016 Leaf SL was bad on the 2nd of Jan 2020 it took another month at the division level to decide where they were going to honor the warranty. Prior to this experience I had thought about finding another 2016-2017 for the daughter in college 15 miles away but now have no interest in taking that risk with Nissan.

In the late 90's Nissan was in serious trouble and about to go under and for cash they gave Renault control over Nissan. All restructuring efforts have failed for two decades now they are looking to sell off the the Chinese their factories in England and Spain per on recent report as they work to downsize again world wide.

Recent articles.
Nissan slashes profit outlook after sales slide, says more restructuring needed
https://whbl.com/news/articles/20...-profit-forecast-hit-by-sales-slump/984578/

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news...tructuring-fiat-merger-report/#.XkjHTDJKjIU

https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/ind...-in-aggressive-restructure-report-41641610

https://www.thedrive.com/news/32004/more-bad-news-at-nissan

After Nissan's Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan, Brentwood resident Greg Kelly remains awaiting trial
https://www.tennessean.com/story/...resident-greg-kelly-awaits-trial/2844929001/

Nissan Dealers Hate How It's Become A 'Bargain Basement Brand': Report
Not impressed by Nissan these days? Neither are the American dealers.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/319...w-its-become-a-bargain-basement-brand-report

 

[cwerdna]

In the late 90's Nissan was in serious trouble and about to go under and for cash they gave Renault control over Nissan. All restructuring efforts have failed for two decades now they are looking to sell off the the Chinese their factories in England and Spain per on recent report as they work to downsize again world wide.

Nissan was near bankrupt (and had been in decline in the 90s) when Renault bought a controlling stake and installed a Carlos Ghosn who did turn around the company.

To claim that "All restructuring efforts have failed for two decades" is grossly inaccurate.

Ghosn got rid of Nissan's debt and had them making record profits instead. I read https://www.titantalk.com/threads/nissan-ceo-the-making-of-a-superstar.21966/ when it originally was on detnews.com. Look at all the awards he got at https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/paneuro/speakers/carlos-ghosn, including being knighted. You think that all happened due to failed restructuring efforts?

However, things started to go downhill once Ghosn relinquished the CEO title to Saikawa (who has been forced out now) and have continued to get worse.

 

[cwerdna]

Sorry if this is known already (I did some searching), but https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf (NTB20-001) is the official TSB for replacing 30 kWh Leaf batteries (which we'd multiple reports of this happening) with 40 kWh packs.

It was published Jan 7, 2020 and says "The 30KWh HV battery pack is discontinued as of the publication of this bulletin."

 

[GaleHawkins]

Sorry if this is known already (I did some searching), but https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf (NTB20-001) is the official TSB for replacing 30 kWh Leaf batteries (which we'd multiple reports of this happening) with 40 kWh packs.

It was published Jan 7, 2020 and says "The 30KWh HV battery pack is discontinued as of the publication of this bulletin."

Thanks. Perhaps the 40 kWh cost them less than the 30 did 3-4 years ago as well.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

That is very likely, as can be further seen with the large discounts appearing in Europe on the 40 kWh battery.

 

[fotajoye]

Don't know why Nissan doesn't just offer the 40kWh battery as a replacement for all their cars, inclusive of the 2011- 2020 MY? they would only need to maintain an inventory of two battery items, the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries. There is cost savings in not building obsolete items and maintaining a larger inventory, plus this would increase the value of their used products, leading to higher follow on sales.

Having said this, I'm afraid those of us hoping for a positive battery resolution from Nissan will continue to be disappointed.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Don't know why Nissan doesn't just offer the 40kWh battery as a replacement for all their cars, inclusive of the 2011- 2020 MY? they would only need to maintain an inventory of two battery items, the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries. There is cost savings in not building obsolete items and maintaining a larger inventory, plus this would increase the value of their used products, leading to higher follow on sales.

Having said this, I'm afraid those of us hoping for a positive battery resolution from Nissan will continue to be disappointed.

Hmm? Interesting. You might want to "consider the needs of the masses" over yours. I see Nissan's reasoning as rather transparent but lets look at choices.

**Offer a product that people are willing to pay for. $4500 plus labor is something I wouldn't do but it does seem to be very viable for quite a few people from what I have seen.

Or your option; Simplify the line and offer the 40 kwh for... well, no one knows how much but I will put money on it currently not being in nearly anyone's wheelhouse. Nissan saves money because 40 kwh is in current production and gains nearly zero customer loyalty.

Now, I don't really understand the ideology of paying over 5 grand to restore the car back to 24 kwh range in a better than new format. The new pack is better. There is no question about that but its 24 kwh. But I have been confused for a long time. I don't know why anyone would have purchased a 24 kwh EV in the first place. But we all have needs and they vary in roughly 330 million different ways.

Finally; the "hopes" have become reality for a growing number of LEAF drivers. But then again; that is what "they" say.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I am rather excited about the growing aftermarket of service centers doing Leaf Upgrades. Maybe in 6-7 years when my Plus battery is down 20 or so percent, there will be a modestly priced upgrade to a 100kWh pack.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Don't know why Nissan doesn't just offer the 40kWh battery as a replacement for all their cars, inclusive of the 2011- 2020 MY? they would only need to maintain an inventory of two battery items, the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries. There is cost savings in not building obsolete items and maintaining a larger inventory, plus this would increase the value of their used products, leading to higher follow on sales.

Having said this, I'm afraid those of us hoping for a positive battery resolution from Nissan will continue to be disappointed.

You make good points. Until the Nissan Corp finds a way forward we will be in the dark I expect.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Don't know why Nissan doesn't just offer the 40kWh battery as a replacement for all their cars, inclusive of the 2011- 2020 MY? they would only need to maintain an inventory of two battery items, the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries. There is cost savings in not building obsolete items and maintaining a larger inventory, plus this would increase the value of their used products, leading to higher follow on sales.

Having said this, I'm afraid those of us hoping for a positive battery resolution from Nissan will continue to be disappointed.

You make good points. Until the Nissan Corp finds a way forward we will be in the dark I expect.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

 

[Stanton]

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

Keep those updates coming, because I see a battery pack (capacity) upgrade in my future. I have tried to stir interest in the Dallas area, but (surprisingly) haven't found any "takers" yet. Maybe the current environment will spur some "outside the box" thinking for auto repair shops and someone will take a bigger interest in EV mods/upgrades.

EDIT: the day after posting this I found a possible source/shop!

 

[GaleHawkins]

Don't know why Nissan doesn't just offer the 40kWh battery as a replacement for all their cars, inclusive of the 2011- 2020 MY? they would only need to maintain an inventory of two battery items, the 40 kWh and 62 kWh batteries. There is cost savings in not building obsolete items and maintaining a larger inventory, plus this would increase the value of their used products, leading to higher follow on sales.

Having said this, I'm afraid those of us hoping for a positive battery resolution from Nissan will continue to be disappointed.

You make good points. Until the Nissan Corp finds a way forward we will be in the dark I expect.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

I think pre COVID-19 your thoughts may have been valid. Time will tell.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You make good points. Until the Nissan Corp finds a way forward we will be in the dark I expect.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

I think pre COVID-19 your thoughts may have been valid. Time will tell.

You think Nissan will now make an option to delay new car purchases easier because of COVID?

That is an interesting theory.

 

[fotajoye]

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html
[/quote]

I've been waiting for those who are converting old classic cars to electric to realize the Leaf is already nicely engineered to accomplish all that's needed for an EV...all the design problems have been solved; and, there are no costly surprises other than the battery pack. Just seems to me there should be aftermarket companies, other than Nissan, involved in refurbishing traction packs and developing higher ranges. There must be close to 1/2 million Leafs out there by now, and the number is growing. They all will need at least one replacement pack in their lifetime. That's a huge aftermarket.

The policy from Nissan that the Leaf is a throwaway and not supported after the first battery is poor management practice and dissolves any credibility they have from the buyers of their products. Nissan should be scrambling to satisfy the buyers who trusted them by buying their EVs.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Don't hold your breath waiting for Nissan. There is finally an aftermarket movement addressing this very issue. One example. Since the blog post, 2 more have arisen as well

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/03/leaf-battery-upgrades-comes-to.html

I think pre COVID-19 your thoughts may have been valid. Time will tell.

You think Nissan will now make an option to delay new car purchases easier because of COVID?

That is an interesting theory.

All I read is Nissan wants to come up with a plan to stay in business in the USA . A ton of the Nissan's sold at cost to car rental firms will be coming into the market. Nissan is still running ads trying to dump 2019 models including the 150 mile Leaf.

Third party Leaf battery sources I expect will be COVID-19 victims. Yes I fully expect our 2016 Leaf will be a throw a way car when our 2020 40 kWh battery fails.

Renault may may be the wildest wild card in Nissan's future.

 

[dsh]

Nissan has raised the prices again on their replacement Battery Packs. Nissan EV Customer Service no longer quotes battery pack prices via their 1.877.664.2738 but refers you to your Dealership for Battery Pack Prices:

24kWh w/o CW: 295B0-9RB9E $7691.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-9rb9e.html
24kWh w/ CW: 295B0-9RB9D $7691.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-9rb9d.html
30kWh w/o CW: 295B0-4NP9A Discontinued Product https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b04np9a
30kWh w/ CW: 295B0-4NP9B Discontinued Product https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b04np9b
40kWh : 295B0-5SA9C $11,231.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-5sa9c.html
($10,640.00 @ TASCAParts.com) https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b05sa9c
All seem to have a fixed $1000 core charge.
CW is Cold Weather Package
As usual non transparent business practices, Nissan does not display any 62kWh battery packs for sale. Daklein wrote: "If anyone has won the junkyard lottery, have you seen the p'n on a 62kwh pack? I don't really want to buy a 24 or 30 kWh pack by accident. " https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=27600&start=140

Im the Phoenix class-action representative from the Nissan Leaf battery degradation class action lawsuit that was filed against Nissan and I still own my 2011 Nissan Leaf w/ 101,800 miles and am down 6 capacity bars on the second battery which was replaced under the capacity warranty. I just spoke to Nissan customer service and they lowered the price of their 24 kilowatt hour battery to approximately $5,495. They're 40 kilowatt battery is now $12,495. They are discontinuing the 30 kilowatt hour battery and replacing those cars batteries with their 40 kilowatt hour battery. They have still yet to announce this which is odd and they will not install a 40 kilowatt hour in a 24 kilowatt hour equipped car. I told them about Fenix Power and that Fenix power will be the best solution because your batteries with a small subscription price every month will be kept at maximum capacity and you'll always be at 12 capacity bars.. Can't Wait!

dsh do you know if the 40 kWh replacement will show a range of 150 miles or if they will just label that extra 10 kWh as battery reserve power with software and the full range will read the same 107 miles. Either way that is awesome news. Do you know if Nissan has found a design problem with the 30kWh battery causing premature failure? My failed it about 24K miles and in 38 months and showed a State Of Health of 63%. It was an off lease car so I really do not have detailed history. Leaf Spy Pro at about 22K miles reported 1 DC and 720 L1/L2 charges. From the external wear on the OEM L1 it may have been the main charger used to charge the car. It had lived in St. Louis MO when it was on lease.

The dealer has had our 2016 Leaf SL over a month now. To be clear they said they got a new Leaf diagnostic computer system a couple months ago but have not had a Leaf in the shop to learn how to use it. I mean they knew the battery was bad (8 bars now after the BMS update was ran in 2018) the first week they had it but I was willing for them use my car to train their techs. They did get a factory trainer out then an area rep to decide where to replace the battery I was told by phone yesterday.

The service writer was evasive when I asked if they had my new battery and he mention that something was mentioned about a buy back because a new battery from the warehouse was going to be $12,500 which until I read your post I thought was BS. My blood pressure shot up over the word "buy-back" and he must have heard my pulse through the phone because he said he was going to be working on this 24/7 to get me a battery. I said NO get sleep so you can work on the matter better.

I started my case through the National Leaf customer rep a couple months ago so I reached my contact today and mentioned about "buy-back" coming up and asked why. I was told if the techs found my battery was at 8 bars or less I would be getting a new battery since the BSM was ran in 2018 per the history data. I was told the buy-back was for major repairs that would take a long time and not a battery replacement on a used car. So Monday the servicing dealership service center is to be called by the national customer rep and I am to hear back by Wed that the battery replacement has been ordered.

Our Leaf only has 25K miles and it looks new like so I want to keep it so the national rep made me feel at ease and the 40 kWh news is icing on the cake. The ex CEO Carlos Ghosn mentioned in an interview a couple weeks ago that Nissan would be bankrupt in 2022 so that did not help my stress level on top of the lack of communication about what was happening with my battery replacement. Thanks for your post.

 

[SageBrush]

@galehawkins

I would be delighted at mention of a buyback

 

[fotajoye]

Nissan has raised the prices again on their replacement Battery Packs. Nissan EV Customer Service no longer quotes battery pack prices via their 1.877.664.2738 but refers you to your Dealership for Battery Pack Prices:

24kWh w/o CW: 295B0-9RB9E $7691.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-9rb9e.html
24kWh w/ CW: 295B0-9RB9D $7691.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-9rb9d.html
30kWh w/o CW: 295B0-4NP9A Discontinued Product https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b04np9a
30kWh w/ CW: 295B0-4NP9B Discontinued Product https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b04np9b
40kWh : 295B0-5SA9C $11,231.00 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-battery-assy-main~295b0-5sa9c.html
($10,640.00 @ TASCAParts.com) https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/nissan-battery-assembly-main-295b05sa9c
All seem to have a fixed $1000 core charge.
CW is Cold Weather Package
As usual non transparent business practices, Nissan does not display any 62kWh battery packs for sale. Daklein wrote: "If anyone has won the junkyard lottery, have you seen the p'n on a 62kwh pack? I don't really want to buy a 24 or 30 kWh pack by accident. " https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=27600&start=140

Im the Phoenix class-action representative from the Nissan Leaf battery degradation class action lawsuit that was filed against Nissan and I still own my 2011 Nissan Leaf w/ 101,800 miles and am down 6 capacity bars on the second battery which was replaced under the capacity warranty. I just spoke to Nissan customer service and they lowered the price of their 24 kilowatt hour battery to approximately $5,495. They're 40 kilowatt battery is now $12,495. They are discontinuing the 30 kilowatt hour battery and replacing those cars batteries with their 40 kilowatt hour battery. They have still yet to announce this which is odd and they will not install a 40 kilowatt hour in a 24 kilowatt hour equipped car. I told them about Fenix Power and that Fenix power will be the best solution because your batteries with a small subscription price every month will be kept at maximum capacity and you'll always be at 12 capacity bars.. Can't Wait!

dsh do you know if the 40 kWh replacement will show a range of 150 miles or if they will just label that extra 10 kWh as battery reserve power with software and the full range will read the same 107 miles. Either way that is awesome news. Do you know if Nissan has found a design problem with the 30kWh battery causing premature failure? My failed it about 24K miles and in 38 months and showed a State Of Health of 63%. It was an off lease car so I really do not have detailed history. Leaf Spy Pro at about 22K miles reported 1 DC and 720 L1/L2 charges. From the external wear on the OEM L1 it may have been the main charger used to charge the car. It had lived in St. Louis MO when it was on lease.

The dealer has had our 2016 Leaf SL over a month now. To be clear they said they got a new Leaf diagnostic computer system a couple months ago but have not had a Leaf in the shop to learn how to use it. I mean they knew the battery was bad (8 bars now after the BMS update was ran in 2018) the first week they had it but I was willing for them use my car to train their techs. They did get a factory trainer out then an area rep to decide where to replace the battery I was told by phone yesterday.

The service writer was evasive when I asked if they had my new battery and he mention that something was mentioned about a buy back because a new battery from the warehouse was going to be $12,500 which until I read your post I thought was BS. My blood pressure shot up over the word "buy-back" and he must have heard my pulse through the phone because he said he was going to be working on this 24/7 to get me a battery. I said NO get sleep so you can work on the matter better.

I started my case through the National Leaf customer rep a couple months ago so I reached my contact today and mentioned about "buy-back" coming up and asked why. I was told if the techs found my battery was at 8 bars or less I would be getting a new battery since the BSM was ran in 2018 per the history data. I was told the buy-back was for major repairs that would take a long time and not a battery replacement on a used car. So Monday the servicing dealership service center is to be called by the national customer rep and I am to hear back by Wed that the battery replacement has been ordered.

Our Leaf only has 25K miles and it looks new like so I want to keep it so the national rep made me feel at ease and the 40 kWh news is icing on the cake. The ex CEO Carlos Ghosn mentioned in an interview a couple weeks ago that Nissan would be bankrupt in 2022 so that did not help my stress level on top of the lack of communication about what was happening with my battery replacement. Thanks for your post.

Nissan is a company under stress, so they are looking for money, your money!
However, in the long run, money will not mitigate their poor EV management policies and unsupportive culture towards customer satisfaction.

On a positive note, I thought I would share the following link of an aftermarket pack installation in a gen 1 Leaf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlxzlQgovUA
It appears that any size pack can be adapted to work in the gen one slot. Perhaps this will catch on here in the U.S. and we can repurpose the many used packs made available by accidents.
There is a large market of about 1/2 million Leafs Worldwide and they will all need a replacement pack at least once in their lifetime.

It's disappointing that Nissan has made no effort to develop this growing market. In fact their predatory pricing policy on replacement packs precludes consideration.

 

[SageBrush]

Perhaps this will catch on here in the U.S. and we can repurpose the many used packs made available by accidents.

IIRC, about 1% of on-road vehicles get totaled each year from accident.