Upgrade to new battery & keep the old?

[gschettl]

Has anyone upgraded to a replacement LEAF Lithium Ion battery and kept their used traction battery? I am hoping to replace the traction battery in my 2012 SL with a 2016 battery, (if the 2016 battery is retrofittable into a 2012), but KEEP the original battery for solar storage purposes. Can I do this by merely sacrificing the ~$1,000 core charge?

 

[mwalsh]

As things stand right now, I don't think they'll allow that under any circumstances.

 

[edatoakrun]

As I've mentioned on other threads, I may want to keep my LEAF's OE battery when/if I ever decide to replace it, for the same reason, to use it at home.

At that time, If I want to use a Nissan replacement battery, and if as I expect, my OE pack's actual value considerably exceeds $1,000, and if Nissan refuses to allow me to pay the core charge and retain the OE battery, I may take legal action.

My intended use of the OE battery, after I no longer needed it to power my LEAF, was integral to the value of my LEAF when I bought it.

I believe the disclosure I signed when I leased (and later, bought) my LEAF was clearly deficient, in not mentioning the possibility that Nissan would manufacture any replacement part for my car, but refuse to sell it to me outright.

 

[TomT]

I suspect you would lose... But the simple solution for Nissan is to raise the core charge to, say, $10,000... No one would even remotely contemplate keeping it at that price...

At that time, If I want to use a Nissan replacement battery, and if as I expect, my OE pack's actual value considerably exceeds $1,000, and if Nissan refuses to allow me to pay the core charge and retain the OE battery, I may take legal action.

 

[GregH]

Probably better to think of the non-warranty battery upgrade as a swap more so than a purchase..
Personally I can't fathom dealing with such a large object at my house although I guess you'd just extract the modules and haul the shell out to a dump or something.. You could always buy a used pack from a crashed Leaf I suppose.

If you're just in the market for used lithium EV batteries I could put you in touch with a good source for 100Ah batteries with BMS. Don't PM me though, my box is full and I'm too lazy and or cheap to deal with it.

 

[Graffi]

I would think the TESLA Powerwall would be a better choice than trying to create a home battery back-up unit with an old Leaf pack. JMHO.

 

[edatoakrun]

I would think the TESLA Powerwall would be a better choice than trying to create a home battery back-up unit with an old Leaf pack. JMHO.

Tesla's powerwall is far too expensive to be practical.

It would actually be much cheaper to buy a NEW LEAF pack (assuming Nissan would sell you one) at ~$6,500 per ~21.5 kWh available than a powerwall, at $3k per each ~7 kWh available module.

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

My minimum-lenght trip is 50-55 miles with ~1500 ft of net descent, with the same ~1500 ft of net ascent on the return, requiring ~10 kWh from the pack in Summer, and ~12-14 kWh in the Winter.

So I don't think I will want to rely on my OE pack, once it is down to ~16 kWh available (Winter) from"100%" to turtle, which now looks likely to occur by ~2019.

I knew ~all this when I bought my LEAF, but also counted on the option of keeping my used battery, when and if I ever bought a replacement.

I wouldn't mind returning my pack to Nissan, as long as they paid a reasonable trade-in value, for packs with a lot of use left in them.

The $1,000 core charge means Nissan would essentially be offering me ~ $62.50 per each of the ~16 available kWh, in my used pack.

Sounds to me like a great deal...for Nissan.

In any case, any future battery problem I may have with Nissan is probably years away, and any number of other circumstances could intervene prior to then, rendering the question moot.

So I'm not suffering with this, or any other battery-related anxiety.

 

[Flashman]

TomT: I suspect you would lose... But the simple solution for Nissan is to raise the core charge to, say, $10,000... No one would even remotely contemplate keeping it at that price...

Based on What?
Any references to back any of that up?

He would win as he purchased his Leaf.
The battery pack is the OPs property plain and simple.
I plan to keep mine as well.

A replacement costs $6500.
keep the core and it still costs $6500 simple.

... And Tom... to say Nissan can just raise the core charge to say... '$10,000' is just sad and a very silly way to prove a point that's flawed to begin with.

 

[Amund]

I don't think the manufacturer sells new batteries. They are offering replacement of the battery.

If you want to buy a battery, i guess you have to go to the second hand market.

 

[gschettl]

A good conversation. Thanks to all who replied. So far nobody has told me they successfully kept their LEAF battery after a battery swap. Does anyone know if I can upgrade my 2012 SL to a 2016 battery? I've heard the 2016 battery will have 30 kWh capacity rather than 24, so it would make it a worthwhile upgrade for me as soon as it were available if they are interchangeable, (backward compatible?) and Nissan would allow upgrading to a 2016 battery.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

A good conversation. Thanks to all who replied. So far nobody has told me they successfully kept their LEAF battery after a battery swap. Does anyone know if I can upgrade my 2012 SL to a 2016 battery? I've heard the 2016 battery will have 30 kWh capacity rather than 24, so it would make it a worthwhile upgrade for me as soon as it were available if they are interchangeable, (backward compatible?) and Nissan would allow upgrading to a 2016 battery.

There are plenty of opinions either way, but so far Nissan is silent on the question. In fact, AFAIK, Nissan is officially silent on the existence of the 30kWh battery option. The only information I have read on it is hearsay and leaked information.

 

[TomT]

If you read the fine print of the "purchase" agreement it says that you agree to provide the core to Nissan and that they consider the exchange an extended warranty goodwill exchange. Thus, they have the right to demand the battery back as they do any other warranty parts...

Based on What?
Any references to back any of that up?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Has anyone upgraded to a replacement LEAF Lithium Ion battery and kept their used traction battery? I am hoping to replace the traction battery in my 2012 SL with a 2016 battery, (if the 2016 battery is retrofittable into a 2012), but KEEP the original battery for solar storage purposes. Can I do this by merely sacrificing the ~$1,000 core charge?

not an option unless you have another LEAF from salvage or something

 

[edatoakrun]

If you read the fine print of the "purchase" agreement it says that you agree to provide the core to Nissan and that they consider the exchange an extended warranty goodwill exchange. Thus, they have the right to demand the battery back as they do any other warranty parts...

I repeat.

Since Nissan's refusal to sell outright any replacement part for my LEAF was not disclosed when I Leased/purchased my LEAF, I doubt Nissan's current policy would be found compatible with California commercial code and consumer protection laws.

Any attorneys with experience in this question care to comment?

As practical matter, this is a small claims action in California and most other states.

And before it gets there, someone has to demand an outright purchase from Nissan, and be denied.

I doubt that person will be me, since at ~40k miles, I have at least a few years to go until I want to replace my OE pack.

Unless, of course, the 30k pack is both compatible with my 2011, and Nissan offers an attractive exclusive trade-in deal to early adopters.

That offer could pry my OE pack from my (not quite) cold dead hands...

 

[KillaWhat]

I’ve got a Law degree on the wall.

My read on this is it has nothing to do with a warranty exchange, wherein Nissan probably could enforce an exchange.

I can talk about this in “conceptual” terms, but I don’t have any specific information.

1) I bought my car outright in 2012. I signed NOTHING when I did it. Really, Nothing. I OWN it, and all the pieces that are contained therein.

2) Now there are laws in place that force vehicle manufacturers to allow independent shops to purchase any parts needed to repair their cars.

3) So if I take my car to “Bobs Repair” to replace my battery, Bob should be able to order the pack. Now keep in mind I OWN my other pack free and clear. I also purchased the included 12VDC batter in there as well, and while they will charge me a “core” charge were I to purchase a new one, they cannot compel me to avail myself of that.

What if my pack got stolen? Huh Hhh? Nudge Nudge! Stolen ……. yeah that’s the ticket.

In conclusion, I would like to keep my pack as well for the same reason; solar storage.
Nissan is going to have a heck of a time getting me to return my old pack (the pack I OWN) if I ever purchase a replacement.

And lastly, I would be astonished if the 2016 pack could be retrofitted into a 2012 car.
Programming is all wrong. Can messages, etc.

Nissan has no real incentive to make it happen either.
They don't seem like a company that does things because it will help early adopters or be "the right thing to do"

If anybody out there purchases a pack from a wreck, and wants to split in in half to make it a range extender, give me a PM.
I have designed a simple 12Kw add on pack, and I just need some modules.

 

[Valdemar]

Nissan has no real incentive to make it happen either.

Well, if nothing else it could be a great publicity stunt for their EV technology and a step in the right direction to square things a bit with the early Leaf owners. Couldn't hurt considering the mediocre Leaf sale numbers.

 

[Valdemar]

If you read the fine print of the "purchase" agreement it says that you agree to provide the core to Nissan and that they consider the exchange an extended warranty goodwill exchange. Thus, they have the right to demand the battery back as they do any other warranty parts...

You have actually seen a battery purchase agreement? Not for a warranty exchange, but as if one pays out of pocket for replacement. I don't recall any reports of anyone actually buying a new pack.

 

[TomT]

Nissan has never shown that "squaring" things is a big consideration for them...

Well, if nothing else it could be a great publicity stunt for their EV technology and a step in the right direction to square things a bit with the early Leaf owners.

 

[Valdemar]

Nissan has never shown that "squaring" things is a big consideration for them...

Well, if nothing else it could be a great publicity stunt for their EV technology and a step in the right direction to square things a bit with the early Leaf owners.

Unfortunate but true. Their loss.

 

[DaveEV]

Unfortunate but true. Their loss.

What's crazy is that their cost to do so would be minimal at best in the grand scheme of things since very few people would actually take them up on any paid upgrade unless the upgrade was very inexpensive.

Just look at how few people are opting to buy a replacement pack out of warranty.

They could cut the 24 kWh pack price by $2,000 to $4,000 installed for early adopters I doubt it'd get many people to buy it. $4k is a lot to spend on a car worth less than $10k. They'd have to get the price down around $2,500 range installed to really make it worth.

Even if they sold the "30 kWh" pack at $6,000 installed for early adopters, I doubt many people would opt to buy it.