Used 2015 Leaf S, acceptable degradation?

[eyedrop]

I'll likely be purchasing a blue 2015 Leaf S with 19,000 miles come Tuesday for $12,500. Is this a reasonable price?

Car is located in Phoenix. My Bluetooth OBD scanner will be here Monday, and I intend to check the battery before I make the final purchase. The owner says it has all 12 capacity bars and no accidents, so thats a good start...

What should acceptable LeafSpy numbers be for a car of this age/mileage? Any other things I should look out for?

 

[cwerdna]

I'll likely be purchasing a blue 2015 Leaf S with 19,000 miles come Tuesday for $12,500. Is this a reasonable price?

Does it have the "charge package" that upgrades the OBC to 6.6 kW and the CHAdeMO (quick charge) inlet? That will have a bearing on the price.

If it doesn't, then that doesn't sound like a great deal based on the averages at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=462638#p462638. I bought my used '13 Leaf SV w/premium (built 5/2013) over a year ago for $9,325 + tax and license. The used car dealer I went to had a $1K markup above his price. He gets them from auction.

What should acceptable LeafSpy numbers be for a car of this age/mileage? Any other things I should look out for?

Not sure since Phoenix is murder on Leaf batteries and I haven't followed how well the "lizard" batteries (which started w/model year 2015) are holding up in the Phoenix heat.

 

[eyedrop]

It does have the DC fast charge port and 6.6 kW charger.

 

[LeftieBiker]

For it to count as 12 "real" bars rather than "about to be 11 bars" it should have a SOH above 89%, IMO, because it will lose capacity faster in that location. It will have 11 bars when it falls below 85%.

 

[GerryAZ]

Check manufacture and in service dates. Manufacture date is on information label on driver door frame and will give indication of how long it may have been on dealer lot before original purchase. In service date is start of warranty so it will let you determine when the various warranties expire. Tires will likely need replacing soon unless original owner kept them inflated to 44 psi and rotated them often. Verify that air compressor kit is stored in compartment in left rear of luggage area and check its condition. It is a good compressor, but I recommend that you carry a tubeless tire repair kit and avoid using the bottle of sealer. Also, make sure all owner manuals are with the car.

FWIW, my 2015 still has all 12 capacity bars and it will have 29,000 miles by the time I park in my driveway this evening. Manufacture date was January 2015 and I picked it up as soon as the dealer completed the pre-delivery checks after it arrived. I did not see significant drop in Leaf Spy numbers the first summer, but this summer was hotter (officially had 30 days of 110 F or higher at Sky Harbor Airport). Leaf Spy numbers have dropped gradually this summer and I may not be too far from losing the first capacity bar. The Leaf Spy numbers fluctuate during the day (lowest in the morning after charging, highest after being parked at half charge, and lower again at the end of the day). The numbers also decrease when parked for extended time at airport or office (return to normal after driving a couple of days) and increase after quick charging. For reference, numbers when parked last night were: Odo=28,946 miles; AHr=52.69; SOH=84%; Hx=75.65%; QC=26; L1/L2=485.

The 2015 battery is doing much better than the 2011 (Silver 679 in Tony's September 2012 Phoenix Range Test) which lost the first two capacity bars a little over a year after purchase and two more bars a year later. The battery was replaced in October 2013 and the replacement was down to 11 capacity bars by the time of the crash.

Gerry

 

[eyedrop]

Awesome, thanks for the info! It kind of seems like your SOH and AHr is slightly on the low side for your mileage and age of the car. But I know the AZ heat is tough on batteries. Is it really that bad, despite the new Lizard design? Are your numbers roughly in line with others in the Phoenix area?

For what its worth, I live in the Prescott area, where summers are usually 10-20 degrees cooler than PHX, and with winter bringing temps down to 15-25F... My daily drive is typically between 6 and 30 miles round trip, mostly city. On weekends, I visit my parents house in Chino Valley, and its about 50-60 miles round trip with 70% highway at 65mph. I am able to plug in to the 110V outlet at work and on my weekend trips, so range shouldn't be too much of an issue. It would be nice to know if the used car can handle it for the next 3 or 4 years if I ever forget to charge at my parents.

I am REALLY wondering if the car will make it from Anthem, AZ at 100% charge to Prescott Valley (64 miles, 4000 ft elevation gain, all highway) without stopping to trickle charge it for a couple hours in Cordes Junction... Might be a close one! I wonder if I could do it if I stayed at 55mph, and followed the big rigs at low speed up the mountains...

I read that Leaf Spy numbers can vary a little bit depending on temperature, state of charge, etc... But I just need a rough guide on what to look for in a 20,000 mile Leaf with Lizard battery from AZ. For example:

SOH: 89-100%
Ahr: 60-70%

etc...

If a figure is lower than acceptable, I would like to know how to spot it and pass on the car. Plus, you never know if the capacity bars got reset until you use leaf spy...


Another quick question: Has Nissan paint improved at all in the past 5-10 years? I noticed alot of late 2000's nissan titans with peeling paint, and heard many stories about the Leaf paint being thin and easily chipped. Are the 2015's any better?

Finally, is $12,500 acceptable for a "loaded" S with charge package and a clean CARFAX?

 

[tkdbrusco]

Just to put my two cents in as an owner of an early 2015 model. Mine was MFG in 4/14 and I am just about to hit 36K miles. I live in the San Jose area, so its fairly warm, not Arizona warm, but still not really that kind on Leaf batteries.

Here's my most recent readings from last week.
273 Gids
21.16 kwh
97.25 SOC
87.64% SOH
89.16 HX
58.07 Ahr

The SOH thing is really deceptive to me on the 2015 models. Technically the 12th bar drops at 15.5% capacity loss, but if you look at my GIDS or Ahr, I am nowhere near that. Historically the early cars were at 245 or so GIDS when they dropped their bars, so I'm confused by that. If you base the % drop off the total GIDS capacity or Ahr, I'm at about 8% degradation right now or only about halfway there to dropping the first bar. I also drive mine very gently, 4.9 mi/kwh average, and 42psi in the tires, so that probably helped me a bit on degradation.

I think we've seen that the 2015 models are very much improved from the earlier years. I have yet to hear of one that has dropped a bar yet. At first I thought there was maybe some trickery in there and that they had put in some extra capacity and just ate away at it. Maybe they did do a little of that, but even so, we are looking at a much better pack IMO compared to those prior.

My advice to you on your purchase would be to still push for a lower price. I still think that $12,500 is a bit high. If you can get it for $11,750, that would be a good deal IMO. Keep in mind though with the 24kwh leaf, that if nothing changes with the battery replacement price or capacity, you may wind up with a limited range car in the future. Personally I wouldn't count on it being a 100k mile car with anything more than 70% remaining capacity, even with a lizard pack. You have to be ok with that, or at least acknowledge that you'll have to sell it then for $4-5K or something. I think the replacement pack at $6K for a 24kwh pack doesn't make much sense. My hope is that Nissan starts selling the 30kwh pack for the same price as a backwards compatible option. This would turn my 2015 S into a car I may keep and invest in, instead of just the EV I'm using until my Model 3 Tesla gets here.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I forgot to mention that the paint doesn't hold up very well. I have a couple chips, but nothing too shocking. Also the tires wear very quickly, especially the stock ones. You could maybe use that as a bargaining chip. If you keep them over inflated and rotate them every 7500mi, you can squeeze 40k miles out of them, but if not, they'll last you 25k or so. My co-worker has the same MY as my leaf (bought a month earlier) and he had to replace his tires at around 25k. Also the charge times is a major annoyance on the S model. You have to control it from the dash and its quite cumbersome. If you don't have an EVSE already and buy the S, get yourself a wifi based EVSE so that you have more control over the charge timer. Other than that, its a really good car.

 

[sub3marathonman]

Also the tires wear very quickly, especially the stock ones. You could maybe use that as a bargaining chip. If you keep them over inflated and rotate them every 7500mi, you can squeeze 40k miles out of them, but if not, they'll last you 25k or so. My co-worker has the same MY as my leaf (bought a month earlier) and he had to replace his tires at around 25k.

I can verify that! I kept the original tires inflated, hate to say "over inflated" since it was within tire specs, rotated them every 5K miles, and got 42K miles on them, plus another 2K when one tire really needed to be replaced. Of course, after I replaced them at 44K miles, it wasn't a whole long time before, wouldn't you know it, I got a nail in one of the tires. I had purchased the tires from Tire Rack, and so I was able to take advantage of their Road Protection, which was much better than the one month protection the local tire dealers were giving.

 

[GerryAZ]

Eyedrop,

You will not make it from Anthem to Prescott Valley without charging if you drive 75 (due to combination of speed and elevation gain). I just looked at Plug Share and don't see much for public charging stations so your best bet might be to follow the trucks. It would be fun to pass everyone going up the hills with the LEAF if there was somewhere to charge along the way (it would easily go up the hills at 80 mi/hr). Make sure the tires are inflated to 44 psi cold (don't exceed maximum shown on sidewall) and charge fully at the outlet mall in Anthem.

My Leaf Spy numbers are a little higher today--the numbers fluctuate more with the 2015 than they did on the 2011. Since the car you are looking at has fewer miles than mine, I would be concerned if the numbers are lower than the numbers I posted. You should be fine for several years with your range needs as long as you can charge in Chino Valley (you could easily make the round trip now, but maybe not after a few more years of battery deterioration). I have not had paint peeling issues with either the 2011 or 2015, but the paint is more susceptible to chips from rocks than other vehicles I have owned.

Gerry

 

[eyedrop]

I ended up buying the car yesterday! Turns out the car was a 1 year lease from San Rafael, CA, which has a very nice climate. Never too hot or cold.... I got leafspy going no problem, here is my battery results after I brought it home:

I charged the car to 100% in Anthem, set the cruise control to 58MPH, and used no climate control other than the fans (no AC). I arrived home with 18% charge remaining.

I have a thread in the newbie section of the forums if anyone is interested about my experience so far:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22678

 

[LeftieBiker]

The SOH is actually 95% (Hx seems to be an instant reading, while SOH seems to be a more accurate average.) That's excellent.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Sounds like a good score! 95% is very good. You will find that cruise control is not the most efficient way to drive though. You'll learn to feather the regen.