What I've found about the car so far

[garygid]

Any info on what the BMS does to protect the Battery?

 

[gudy]

- I haven't found a way to customize the 80% or 100% limits. and actually, I didn't see an option to enter a custom value.
- When setting a timer as active, it seems that you can't override the timer charge limit from the iPhone app (I had it set at 80%, then in the morning while reading my emails I realized I would have to go pick someone at the airport, so I wanted to charge it to 100%, but the charge request got denied).
- A lot of on-screen controls (entering a destination, looking at your phone's address book) get disabled as soon as the car starts moving ... this is annoying, and I need to find the option to disable that (I hope it exists).
- the voice for the GPS guidance is pretty good, and it makes full sentences like "keep left on 3rd avenue for 1/4 of a mile, then take the ramp on the right onto US 101 north"
- voice recognition/command is not that great ... it works, but the user flow is sometimes cumbersome (eg. once you've finally chosen the contact / phone number to call, you still have to say "dial" which is the only option -- there is always "go back", that's a step that they could have skipped)
- the GPS is missing some POI (I had to go through airports to find SFO, couldn't simply find it by name), it didn't find a holiday inn, and I still don't know how to enter my work address (4W 4th Ave.), I think that it gets confused if you type West when it's expecting W only ...
- If you turn on climate control while the vehicle is plugged, is seems that it turns itself off automatically as soon as you unplug the car. No problem about that, I think it makes sense.
- Sometimes driving without the climate control is not option because of condensation on the windshield. You can get around it by simply using the fan, and turning off a/c, but it would be great to have a button simply for that (now maybe that the defrost button does exactly that, I'll have to read the manual).
- the windshield wippers are great, they make no noise at all (and it's nice to have brand new ones)
- ECO mode is way less fun than regular (actually ECO mode makes you feel you're driving a regular car in terms of performance ;p). I didn't like it at the beginning, while I was "playing" with the car, but now I don't mind using it in the city.
- It rained last night, and the car and EVSE were fine and covered with drops of water this morning.

 

[AndyH]

80% might not be enough, but is 95% will be ok on the battery? Also, what type of degradation did you experience with constant charging to 100%?

nothing but the norm... but that is not the problem...charge capacity is a moving target. temperatures control the reactivity of any chemical reaction and that is all battery storage and discharge is, 2 chemical reactions moving electrons around

so what we want to prevent is charging to 101% which can be done inadvertently. so by only charging to say 90%...if we overshoot to 92% ...no big deal.

Yes - correct. But not an issue because as Gary has already stated, no EV manufacturer on the planet with their reputation or warranty insurance account on the hook is going to let a consumer (no matter how experienced!) get anywhere close to 100% state of charge.

Mark Perry has already stated that Nissan has locked us out of the top and bottom 10%. This is consistent with lithium management practices. This means that the 'consumer 100%' is only 90% of the pack's capability and 'consumer 80%' is 70% of the pack's capability.

EVers have gotten used to being the battery management system because they've had to be. But lithium is not lead and the car's systems know the state of charge and the temperature - the car will not let us hurt the pack. If the pack's going to degrade anyway, we might as well get some mileage out of it!

edit..spelling...

 

[ruimegas]

Greetings from Portugal (first european countrie to have them) and waiting for one of the first LEAF in Europe.

Thank you again gudy for this new report.

Can you check with NISSAN how can you get POI or maps upgrades to your map SD or if that's possible at all?

While we are waiting to be able to get the pdf owners manual on December the 16th, could you please tell us how many pages it is .

Tell us what's your real felling about your LEAF be able to reach the 100 miles without the need to hypermile?

Merci

 

[gudy]

Tell us what's your real felling about your LEAF be able to reach the 100 miles without the need to hypermile?

The way I drive, my LEAF knows I can't make 100 miles
I started this morning with a full battery, and it told me 96 miles.
You turn on the climate control, and that drops to something like 85.

I'm having fun with the car though

Today I've mostly been using ECO mode (however I refuse to get on the highway at anything bellow full throttle ... I like to find my way from ramp to left lane as fast as possible ), so we'll see what the range says tomorrow.

 

[ruimegas]

Tell us what's your real felling about your LEAF be able to reach the 100 miles without the need to hypermile?

The way I drive, my LEAF knows I can't make 100 miles
I started this morning with a full battery, and it told me 96 miles.
You turn on the climate control, and that drops to something like 85.

I'm having fun with the car though

Today I've mostly been using ECO mode (however I refuse to get on the highway at anything bellow full throttle ... I like to find my way from ramp to left lane as fast as possible ), so we'll see what the range says tomorrow.

Thank you so much for the quick reply gudy.

Driving that way give me some hope that I'll be able to reach the 100 miles with a lower pace and light right foot

 

[KeiJidosha]

Congratulations on the LEAF.

Just an FYI, I checked my Chargepoint account to see what it cost to charge at the San Francisco City Hall site. It was on and charging about 30 minutes before you left.

Station Address Date Duration (HH:MM:SS) Fees ($)

Dr Carlton B Goodlet Pl, San Francisco, CA 94102, USA 2010-12-11 15:01:35 (PST) 00:30:10 0.00
Dr Carlton B Goodlet Pl, San Francisco, CA 94102, USA 2010-12-11 13:22:24 (PST) 00:00:00 0.00

I also checked to see if my card worked before you got there which is why no duration at 1:22pm.

Good news is it appears to be free.

 

[mwalsh]

Speaking of which.....Gudy, do you still need to reach Tim Gallagher to get that card back? PM me for his contact information.

 

[garygid]

So, is there no indication of the costs BEFORE you get e-fuel at a ChargePoint location?

If not, that can lead to ... stuff that happens.

 

[KeiJidosha]

So, is there no indication of the costs BEFORE you get e-fuel at a ChargePoint location?

If not, that can lead to ... stuff that happens.

I've been told that if there is no cost on the website, it is free.

Name: SAN FRANCISCO / CITY HALL 002
Address: Dr Carlton B Goodlet Pl, San Francisco, CA 94102, USA
Status as of : 2010-12-14 13:45:57 (PST)
Port 1: 120V, 16A, NEMA 5-20R:In Use
Port 2: 240V, 30A, J1772:Available
Action: Get Directions

The City Hall site does not show a cost, so wanted to check it.

When you get a Chargepoint card, you can adjust your account settings to use only Free, or Free and Paid sites to avoid "stuff" happening.

“Station you may use : All Stations (Free and Paid)”

Like an iTunes account, it seems it wants to be linked to a credit card, but after 19 months, I've yet to be charged. I keep it for backup. No range anxiety for me.

 

[garygid]

Shows status, Good.

Where would the "fee" show, if there was one?

 

[LakeLeaf]

=

Mark Perry has already stated that Nissan has locked us out of the top and bottom 10%. This is consistent with lithium management practices. This means that the 'consusmer 100%' is only 90% of the pack's capability and 'consumer 80%' is 70% of the pack's capability.

Has Mark Perry actually stated that the usable pack is 10% to 90% - or just failed to take the opportunity to correct those who have said that in his presence?

Anyway - I think you meant to say that if the top and bottom 10% are locked out then the consumer 100% is actually only 80% of the pack's capacity.

If the usable range of the battery from 10% to 90% of the actual total capacity, then charging to "consumer 80%" means that you are using the middle 64% of the actual battery - which is 80% of 80%. Yea!, a few extra miles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

that statement "no EV manufacturer in his right mind" i have to question. if that was the case, why are we given a choice? why would we be discussing the benefits of partial if that decision had already been made?

 

[planet4ever]

that statement "no EV manufacturer in his right mind" i have to question. if that was the case, why are we given a choice? why would we be discussing the benefits of partial if that decision had already been made?

No EV manufacturer in his right mind would let you charge a lithium battery to 100% of its total capacity. The choice we are being given is to charge to (about) 90% or to charge to (about) 75%. What's so hard to understand about that?

Note: to my knowledge we don't yet know the exact numbers. The sentence above was based on an assumption that the maximum and minimum ever allowed are 90% and 10%, for 24 kWh usable out of a total battery capacity of about 30 kWh. The limits might, as another example, be as extreme as 95% and 5% (total capacity about 26.7 kWh) in which case the choice we are given is more like 95% or 77%.

 

[healy]

Tell us what's your real felling about your LEAF be able to reach the 100 miles without the need to hypermile?

The way I drive, my LEAF knows I can't make 100 miles
I started this morning with a full battery, and it told me 96 miles.
You turn on the climate control, and that drops to something like 85.

I'm having fun with the car though

Today I've mostly been using ECO mode (however I refuse to get on the highway at anything bellow full throttle ... I like to find my way from ramp to left lane as fast as possible ), so we'll see what the range says tomorrow.

I do most of my driving on secondary streets and roads at around 35 to 45 MPH. Short freeway runs every now and then so I'm estimating I'll be able to get the full 100 miles and more the way I drive. Congratulations gudy.

 

[AndyH]

Mark Perry has already stated that Nissan has locked us out of the top and bottom 10%. This is consistent with lithium management practices. This means that the 'consusmer 100%' is only 90% of the pack's capability and 'consumer 80%' is 70% of the pack's capability.

Has Mark Perry actually stated that the usable pack is 10% to 90% - or just failed to take the opportunity to correct those who have said that in his presence?

The man's mouth moved in public and those exact words came out.

Anyway - I think you meant to say that if the top and bottom 10% are locked out then the consumer 100% is actually only 80% of the pack's capacity.

What you say is true but not what I was talking about. I was comparing the "ultimate" and "consumer" states of charge. If the top 10% is not available to us, then "consumer 100%" is really 90% charged.

If the usable range of the battery from 10% to 90% of the actual total capacity, then charging to "consumer 80%" means that you are using the middle 64% of the actual battery - which is 80% of 80%. Yea!, a few extra miles.

Simpler yet. Take a 30kWh pack and lock out the top and bottom 10%. That leaves 24kWh usable for the consumer. When the consumer charges to "100%", the pack is actually at 90%. When the consumer runs the pack completely empty and they're sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow (some other consumer - not someone from THIS forum!), the pack's still got 10% charge remaining. It's like that $5 in the credit union savings account we're not supposed to touch. :lol:

edit...
A look at consumer VS. pack capacity:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=12774#p12774

At Plug-in 2010 today I stationed myself at the Leaf battery display and listened for a while as the Nissan rep manning that display answered a number of questions without a misstep that I could detect. I finally got my chance and, pointing at the board that said "24kWh total capacity", I asked, "Does that really mean total capacity, or total usable capacity?" He grinned, and replied, "The total usable capacity is roughly 24kWh. The total capacity of the pack is confidential."

[edit]

 

[Nubo]

that statement "no EV manufacturer in his right mind" i have to question. if that was the case, why are we given a choice? why would we be discussing the benefits of partial if that decision had already been made?

Because cells and their behavior aren't binary. As someone already pointed out, they are cans containing chemicals that react. Ideally, that reaction can be reversed over and over -- charge/discharge/charge....

The situation is not ideal, however, despite a lot of work by chemists and engineers. The reaction is not always straightforward. The "primary" reaction (the reversible one) is also accompanied by "secondary" reactions, some of which are not as reversible. Over time, these secondary reactions lock up reactants that are then no longer available for the primary reaction. This is why the capacity degrades over time. Battery management is all about minimizing (but not eliminating) the secondary reactions.

So why are we given a choice? Because the proportion of secondary reactions is not binary, on/off at a certain conditional threshold. It's a continuum. Since range is still precious, it's useful give the user some control over what compromise to make between range and battery longevity. Up to a point, of course. Nissan apparently locks out the final 10%, as that is the region where secondary reactions really take off and battery life drops precipitously.

So, if we were talking about a swiming pool, Nissan isn't going to let you get over your head in the deep end, But you get to decide what part of the safer end to use-- in up to your chest, or just up to the waist.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Gudy....

How are the headlights at night? These being the first production LED headlights, how do they compare to regular beams and xenon beams (if you have experience with xenons)???

Thanks for all the early reporting!!!

 

[IBELEAF]

Gudy....

How are the headlights at night? These being the first production LED headlights, how do they compare to regular beams and xenon beams (if you have experience with xenons)???

Thanks for all the early reporting!!!

These are not first production LED headlights, 2010 Prius already has them

http://priuschat.com/news/the-2010-prius-standard-vs-led-headlights

 

[gudy]

headlights are fine.
Actually, at night with the lights on automatic mode, they stay on for something like 30s or 1 minute after you've locked the car. And everytime, I'm thinking, why don't they stop? my range is going down ... and then I remember they are LEDs
It turns out to be useful to plug to plug the car back home.
By the way, the location of the lever to open the "charging plugs" at the front of the car, is really good. I've never had to search for it, and I mostly come home at night.
It's still weird to not have a manual handbrake, as I'm always reluctant to remove my foot from the brake after parking.
And I keep looking for the keys to remove when I'm done ...

On the minus side :
- the side rearview mirrors (or whatever they are called, but the ones on the left and right of the car), are actually fairly small ... I'm being more careful (especially at night), when changing lanes than before. clearly not a deal braker though, and I'm sure I'll get used to it. And I'm sure the reason they're so small is aerodynamics.

Range wise, my current feeling is that at 75 mph, with light climate control (1.5KW), you'll be looking at a range in between 55 and 65.
For people mostly commuting on highway, who are not usually in traffic jams, and want to drive fairly fast (ie, above 65 mph), I would not recommend the car if your daily commute was above 25 miles each way. At 55 mph, it's a completely different story... (or so it feels). Of course this assumes that you can't charge from work.

Now that I've found the button to reset the daily distance meter, I'll start measuring miles driven and approx state of charge at the end of the day. (there are 12 bars). Over the first 2 days, I believe that my average mileage was 3.1 miles / kWh (ie, 74 miles range). As I've said earlier, the car is really fun to drive, and I'm driving it that way. I'm no hyper-miler, on the contrary.