While chademo is looking bleak long term, it's still growing almost as fast as ccs right now

[cwerdna]

Tesla applies to install Supercharger stations in Texas with CCS connectors
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-applies-install-supercharger-stations-texas-ccs-connectors/

Now the interesting thing is that there’s a requirement for at least one CHAdeMO and CCS connector to be installed for a station receiving a grant:

Include the following connectors:
At least one Charge de Move (CHAdeMO) connector and one Society of Automotive Engineers Combined Charging System (SAE CCS) charging protocol connector per application.
If alternative connectors will be included in an application, there must be at least one CHAdeMO and/or SAE CCS charging protocol connector for each alternative connector included in the application.

This would be significant for Tesla since the automaker has so far only been using its own proprietary connector at Supercharger stations in North America.

Interesting...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Alas, Texas is both a little too far for either of us to drive for a charge, and among the worst places to drive a Leaf. But yes, it's interesting...

 

[SageBrush]

Tesla applies to install Supercharger stations in Texas with CCS connectors
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-applies-install-supercharger-stations-texas-ccs-connectors/

IF I'm reading this correctly, Tesla can build a location that has 50% Tesla 'connectors', 50% - 1 CCS 'connectors', and one CHAdeMO 'connector'

I put connector in ' ' because I'm not sure what that is. A plug ?
What is a Tesla plug with a removable CCS adapter ?

---
I hope this arrangement spreads across the country. It is obviously great for Tesla, but it also benefits the CCS crowd simply because current CCS installers are so outrageously expensive. Tesla can take 1/2 the grant money and *still* add CCS charging for less cost per unit than e.g. Francis Energy.

 

[cwerdna]

IF I'm reading this correctly, Tesla can build a location that has 50% Tesla 'connectors', 50% - 1 CCS 'connectors', and one CHAdeMO 'connector'

I think you are correct. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what ends up happening. There's a chance they might have a few more CHAdeMo than 1 at a site but even I don't think they should be adding a 1:1 ratio of CCS vs. CHAdeMO plugs at this point given what's happened (no thanks to EA).

 

[user 24513]

The latest Tesla site near me has (now) 16 Tesla stations and no CCS or CHADeMO stations- they must not be getting any funding for this. Also, I saw 4 Teslas there today which is more than I have ever seen before. They just added 8 stations... is this really good business sense? or are they getting funding and will eventually add the mandatory station for non-Tesla/

 

[cwerdna]

We have tons of Tesla Superchargers sites here in California. I don't know how much (if any) CA funding Tesla got for those but never ever have I seen a Tesla Supercharger site also (installed by Tesla and not some other company EA or EVgo) have non-Tesla DC FCing. If it has any other charging, it might have L2 J1772 and/or L2 Tesla wall connector. Some (most?) have neither.

 

[SageBrush]

We have tons of Tesla Superchargers sites here in California. I don't know how much (if any) CA funding Tesla got for thos

Correct -- None

is this really good business sense?

Tesla thinks so, and that is all that matters. As for your observation, it probably just means that you have never been around during anything near peak activity.

 

[user 24513]

As for your observation, it probably just means that you have never been around during anything near peak activity.

I have been by this site hundreds of times, and 4 Teslas is in fact the "high use" mark during the last several years. Often no cars, sometimes one or 2.... The fact that they just added 8 more stations to the original 8, in rural New England, is what seems odd to me. My neighbors who own Teslas all charge at home- it is possible that Tesla sees hundreds of Tesla owners fleeing the coastal areas in the next few years and needing to charge as they pass through......

 

[SageBrush]

and 4 Teslas is in fact the "high use" mark during the last several years.

Tesla has vastly superior data to your personal observations. It may be that Tesla is building for the future, but that would be atypical. More likely they are covering peak demands, even if it is only one day a year.

 

[SageBrush]

I didnt think Fenix was that cheap. 100/month for a mediocre 24kWh battery lease? Would have been better to just spend the 3-4K for a 24kWh battery replacement.

$3k - $4k + shipping + installation for a 10 bar 24 kWh pack ? And after all that, no warranty ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

It's a lot of sales at that $100/month to even pay your first employee salary. The ev market moved on too quickly for Fenix to be relevant.

I have a little more hope for the NZ replacement packs, though doubt they make it to the US.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

A number of new Kansas Chademo sites coming soon just appeared on the map. The southern route to CO from Chicago will soon not require much EA reliance.

 

[watchdoc]

After having a broken ChadeMo charger for years, my local Nissan dealer (Greenville, NC) just got a new fancy one and charging is currently free for Leaf owners. Nissan is missing a huge opportunity by not promoting their own dealer backed charging netwok.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Agreed. They didn't want to foot the bill for dealer stations, where they could have used that as a kind of mini nation wide network. Nissan misses a lot of ships....including the current one with Ariya coming so late.

 

[gcrouse]

Agreed. They didn't want to foot the bill for dealer stations, where they could have used that as a kind of mini nation wide network. Nissan misses a lot of ships....including the current one with Ariya coming so late.

It seems like after the Carlos Ghosn scandal - Nissan just sort of stalled with the forward thinking nature and placed itself in the general Japanese automaker - one foot in the EV door and one foot out. I don't know it's entirely fair to say they completely neglected to invest in EV charging (https://www.evgo.com/press-release/nissan-and-evgo-expand-charging-network-with-200-new-ev-fast-chargers/#:~:text=The%20joint%20investment%20by%20Nissan,across%20the%20country%20since%202010)

They just did it halfway while Tesla burned a lot of money making sure it has a robust network which has paid off really well. As technology has moved faster than Nissan - what could once have been considered an ok L2 charging network at dealers hasn't aged well as L3 becomes more available and expected and dealers make choices to either A) not repair decade old L2 chargers or make them otherwise unavailable by ICEing or using a Leaf as a courtesy shuttle and using the charger to support that instead of Leaf customers.

For me it certainly would have been nice when I was working the census to have something better than a small trail of municipal and utility installed L2 chargers available when they decided to send me to locations all about 2 hours north of me. Thankfully the mileage rate covered the L2 charging for Galena's L2 charger that i could use while walking around and knocking on doors - but L3 would have been a much less stressful planning experience.

I think Nissan is probably going to stay on the too little too late train with L3 investment as all of us with 30/40kwh batteries start to need them more and more as packs degrade. I don't get Tesla envy really with the charge network since at least in Iowa they've done a decent job of adding L3 where I desperately need it as my range dwindles away - but i definitely get range envy of folks with the 150-250 mile range since I might actually be able to make road trips with dogs and kids with the stations available across IL and MI.

Fortuitously, in 2017 - there was a 30kwh on the lot rather than the 24kwh models i originally wanted. I can't imagine trying to make due with a 24kwh pack now that it's my only car.

As i eye a 2025 replacement year for my Leaf shortly before the battery warranty expires for me - i think I'm less concerned about QC infrastructure and more concerned about range wars and the average price going up rather than down as everyone seems to be racing for ICE range and "oh wow" tech I don't really need.

With the Leaf probably going away before I'm ready to tackle another car note I might actually consider something like the Kandi K27 if they can show the company isn't a fraud and that the battery won't be a warranty nightmare and it's not a death trap. (I can probably make do with a laughable 59 mile range when the price after federal and state incentives makes it a $6k car) but I'd really rather see more EVs at the current Leaf price point and mileage. I know I'm certainly in the minority with the viewpoint - but i think the race to compete with Tesla's range/price point hinders adoption insofar as it's a tough pill to swallow a car note higher than a mortgage payment and adoption will be driven more by price point to range tradeoff than charging networks since it's a lot easier to notice a $670-$770 a month car note as an expense than the potential fuel cost savings. From that perspective - I think the $27k-$35k price point and a 180-280 mile range for EVs will be just as important for widespread adoption as any sort of meaningful charge station build out.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Grouce,

There is a Chademo now outside Galena (in Elizabeth)!

I agree we need more sub 25K 200 mile range EV options. I think the VW eUP would sell reasonably in the US. Currently it's the Mini and Leaf only...though I did see one person finally bought a speed limited Kandi.

 

[cwerdna]

Grouce,

There is a Chademo now outside Galena (in Elizabeth)!

I agree we need more sub 25K 200 mile range EV options. I think the VW eUP would sell reasonably in the US. Currently it's the Mini and Leaf only...though I did see one person finally bought a speed limited Kandi.

Mini Electric doesn't seem to have that 200 mile range metric. https://www.miniusa.com/model/electric-hardtop.html says 114 miles and starting at just under $30K before tax credits.

 

[gcrouse]

Grouce,

There is a Chademo now outside Galena (in Elizabeth)!

I agree we need more sub 25K 200 mile range EV options. I think the VW eUP would sell reasonably in the US. Currently it's the Mini and Leaf only...though I did see one person finally bought a speed limited Kandi.

I saw that - it's in Apple River State Park which is pretty nice. Once the weather warms up I'm going to pack the kids and dogs up and do a road trip that way for some hiking.

I've looked at the possibility of a Mini - their credits fall under BMW and they have 63,310 cars to go before phase-out so hard to say when they start phase out at this point - and unfortunately the closest Mini dealer to me is in Madison, WI 122 miles away currently and a 2 hour drive plus charge time for yearly battery check ups is a deal breaker for me. Kinda the same situation from last car buying - there was an iMiev in Peru and i ruled it out when I realized i couldn't even make it home from the dealer with it.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Mississippi and Alabama now showing a number of coming soon Chademo sites.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Looks like Volta is getting into the DC charging game but it would appear they will be putting in CCS only stations at several Walmarts around the country. Disappointing news.