DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:00 pm

Thanks Sagebrush

In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).

Hey, Bjorn said that driving style doesn’t impact miles remaining on the GOM. I have seen other you tube posts suggesting that there is a very very mild adjustment based on driving style.

What’s your experience?
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:13 pm

What are you calling a GOM ? As Bjorn said, the range remaining (or % remaining) displayed in the upper left of the screen is not a GOM. That is why people try to use it as a surrogate degradation marker ... and fail, because the calculation has constants that are set (and perhaps changed) by Tesla

When it comes to figuring out battery capacity there are only really two half decent methods available to regular people: 1, relying on the odometer and Wh/mile meter; and 2, relying on the electrical meter during a charging session. Bjorn tries to correlate these two methods to be more confident of his results. Any other method or car reading is very unreliable.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:39 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:00 pm
Thanks Sagebrush

In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).

Hey, Bjorn said that driving style doesn’t impact miles remaining on the GOM. I have seen other you tube posts suggesting that there is a very very mild adjustment based on driving style.

What’s your experience?
Switch the battery capacity view to percentage and treat it like a gas gauge. When the low battery light comes on (less than 20%), plan to charge soon (about 30+ miles of range left). That would take away any anxiety about how accurate the range estimates are.

The navigation estimates on remaining charge are different, since they do factor in current rate of energy consumption (and elevation changes along the way), and show up to the right of your driving directions.

If possible, you should borrow a Tesla model 3 to see this for yourself. Some EV concerns just don't transfer.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:48 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:00 pm
In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).
My meter this AM shows 140 miles of range and 40% SoC. 140/0.45 = 311 miles extrapolated to 100%. That is the same it has been from day #1.

IF I am right that a minority of Model 3 owners are going to be tweaked because they use 200 kW chargers at a frequency similar to Bjorn -- say 1% of the fleet, then the total number of reports could approach ~ 2000 in the USA from cars sold to date. For now we might have reports affecting 0.001% of the USA fleet.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:51 pm

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear its not "system wide" for user, but a subset. From the number of users impacted in the thread, guessing its wider than the 200KW charging club. Maybe older model 3's (and X and S)? I don't know if Tesla has tweaked battery design/chem as its been producing the car.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:33 pm

Bjorn has created a flurry of videos of comparable experiences.

https://youtu.be/SoBYNJ4cMBM

Whether this endemic or not, a don’t have a horse in the race, but cool to see the community quickly activate.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:45 am

Tesla crowd, did you see the Bjorn video?

https://youtu.be/SVm3muFrJbA

45-54 degrees C during fast charging. Did the old S batteries run that hot in the earlier chemistries?

I am hoping this bodes well for the Leaf too, as I have found no power restrictions in the plus, even when the battery is at the high temp mark, nor declines in efficiency.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:24 am

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Degradation happens when the battery stews at high temperatures. That would be the LEAF.

Rapid-gate happens for two reasons:
1. To be sure not to exceed 60C. No way for the LEAF to dissipate heat actively
2. To try and avoid temps into the 50s C that then hang around for prolonged periods

So no joy for your LEAF
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

golfcart
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:35 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:24 am
Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.
2018 SV

golfcart
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:50 am

A friend of mine is seriously considering a Model 3 or a Leaf S+ so I went with him for a testdrive on the Tesla in Richmond last week. I had driven an SR+ before but all they had was a dual motor this time so we took that around. Dual motor is ridiculously fast, I can't imagine what the performance model is like to drive. We were fairly confident that it would smoke his 2018 mustang GT up until at least 75mph.

One interesting thing was that you can in fact still get the $35k SR "off menu" for $38500 out the door (including destination & doc fee + state taxes). It is just a software limited version of the SR+ that loses 30 miles of range, autopilot, adaptive cruise, heated seats, and a few other minor bells and whistles. Delivery times are 8-10 weeks (according to salesman) on that model right now so cutting it close with the expiration of the $1875 tax credit but not a bad deal now that white is the standard color. The lack of heated seats is a real bummer but none of the other "restrictions" seemed like that big of a deal to me. I wouldn't buy a fast car that is fun to drive and then drive with autopilot all the time and the 30 miles of range is minor unless you drive out of town. Plus I'm sure they'd let you enable things for a fee down the road.

He was also impressed with the Leaf S+, it wasn't as fast as the Model 3 but he liked the hatchback, preferred traditional gauges/controls, and thought it was pretty quick as well. It gets the full $7500 tax credit + a state utility rebate of $2500 and can be negotiated down to around $34k OTD right now so over $12k cheaper net than the cheapest Model 3.

He says he drives cars into the ground so not really worried about resale... I'll be curious to see what he decides.
2018 SV

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